On Poetry

[HomerPindar]

There have, and remain, a number of threads on poetry, votes (specially that "one" vote) on poetry, and so forth. What I'm curious to hear is a little bit of a survey on poetry. To what extent does poetic form matter? Take, for example, the cinquain. Having submitted poems in this form I noted that I got a one vote right away. But no feedback. So...? Does this mean that the voter doesnt like the poetic form of a cinquian? Does the voter even know what the poetic form of a cinquain is? Is the voter actually suggesting that my use of the form in erotic poetry is lacking skill, style or taste? Perhaps the problem isn't the one vote, but in the lack of response from the poeple who actually vote ones - and for that matter who vote fives. I wanna hear from both of these extremes! As such, how much does poetic form matter in writing poetry for literotica? Is getting the ten syllable rhyming scheme of a sonnett worth the effort when writing a poem about voyuerism, or should I just settle for "I watched her get laid through the window"?



H.Pindar

 

[KatPurrs]

of cinquains, ghazals, and pantoums

Hi Homer...I think the one troll was just pissed because s/he didn't have a clue as to what a cinquain is!

I don't think that form or structure is paramount here to satisfying the readers. I for one feel that as long as your poems keep my panties wet, well, hell, I'm a happy camper!
And you know they do!

But seriously, I appreciate the sophistication of your poetry. I love all the different forms you've used. Variety, you know........

Keep up the good work and don't worry about whether or not people are "getting it". Just worry about whether or not people are "getting off" And most importantly, whether or not YOU enjoy writing for us! (Don't you ever stop!)

KatPurrs

 

[HomerPindar]

My biggest fan

Fair enough, the objective is to make it erotic, to what extent does form help in that?

I liken it to a challenge myself, I mean keeping in a form when trying to be erotic isn't always easy. The challenge comes from combining the two aspects. Does success in this enhance the erotism any?

Guess I'm not gonna let this thread die too easy, it's a point I'm curious about as I read other work and watch result of my own...



H.Pindar

 

[Debbie]

Form matters not to me, poetry does not have boundaries. One line, iambic, rhyming or not? 50 lines or more? So? Poetry is what we want it to be... to me it is words from the heart, meaningful but to others my poetry might be rhyming s**t. So? Who cares. Define poetry? A true definition or your interpretation? We are all different, so is our interpretation...

 

[KatPurrs]

I'm with Debbiexxx...........

I don't feel that maintaining form enhances the erotic quality of a poem, at all. However, I do like it when it happens, I must admit. That's probably why I'm your biggest fan. You are so good at form without it sounding "forced".

And I kind of misspoke when I emphasized the need for poems to be erotic. There is a non-erotic category here and I find more and more of my poems are falling into that category. To wit:

"Tribute to a Beautiful Man" - "Swimming in Your Love" - "36 Little Hours" - "How Many Layers Have I" - "The Lake-Verbatum"

Non-erotic poems don't draw the readers as readily though. I may never get 10 votes on some of them.

Just keep doing your thing. If you're in hopes that the voting results on your poetry list is a true indication of what kind of form people prefer, forget it. I don't have much faith in "the system" and really don't give a rats patooey where I stand on the list anymore. Write because you enjoy it. And because I enjoy your writings. Must keep your fans satisfied, you know

So to sum it up.....I'm with Debbiexxxx. Poetry has no boundaries. Oh....and BTW Debbiexxx....
.......Nice ass!

KatPurrs

(striving for the coveted 100 post mark so I can show my ass too, or have I been doing that all along?)

 

[HomerPindar]

Some poetry is defined by its form, some by it's rhyme, and some by the intentional avoidance of both, or a combination of all the above. Has nothing to do with my definition of poetry, I dont have one, it's just how it's defined by history. I think defining poetry would be like trying to define erotic, whatever floats your boat. No, I was just asking about the use of classic forms in erotic poetry.

So far, the consensus is that form don't matter.

Free verse for everyone!

H.Pindar

 

[The_old_man]

Personal comment on poetry.

I very seldom read poetry, then usualy under durress.

My junior year highschool "English Liturature" Teacher(?) spent the full year pounding poetry into us. In my case, it gave me a case of rebelion amnesia.

Ever since that I have read poetry only when nothing else was available. This does nor include Limerics, I enjoy a good limeric. This is possably because that teacher(?) deplored the form.

Many others may have a similar dislike of poetry in general as I do. I do not 1-vote because I don't read.

 

[Debbie]

I love poetry, reading it or writing it. A great way to express one's self. I write poetry because it just flows out of me. I enjoy it but understand that not everyone is a fan of poetry. My hubby is definitely not a fan of poetry. And a lot of my non erotic poems will ever reach 10 votes either. *shrugs* Never mind, I still love writing them.
Thanks for the comment on my ass Kat Purrs!

 

[RisiaSkye]

Personally, I value form. I have great fondness for free verse, as I both write and enjoy it. However, I know how difficult it is to follow a traditional schematic--sometimes how tough it is just to follow stanzaic breaks and rhyming structures for any length of time.

I have noticed, though, that the vast majority of readers don't seem to give a damn. And, if you do something off the beaten path of familiarity--sestinas, cinquain, gran-falon, etc., people don't often "get" it. And they may penalize you for doing something that seems awkward to them, precisely because they don't understand or appreciate the difficulties of the form.

So, if you're writing for writers, form can be great. If you're writing for readers, they don't seem to care about or much appreciate form.

 

[MissVictoria]

I adore poetry.

I am impressed when I see structured poetry, as I know that it is often hard to express yourself within such boundries.

However...

There are few structured poems that I find real feeling in. Especially those that involve the use of rhyme. Rhyme is constrictive and very distracting to me.

For me, a good poem creates something "real". It is a thought or idea so well expressed, that one will think on the images it creates for long moments after the poem is finished, and the reader will realise in his or her heart the truth that it speaks. It is like taking a moment from time and presenting it to another so that they might experience it as well.

A poem should say as much as possible, in as few words as possible. I don't enjoy fruitily descriptive poetry, and feel that belongs in prose.

 

[HomerPindar]

Thank you RisiaSkye nd MissVictoria for the additional input! I'm enjoying the feedback on this topic

RisiaSkye brought up an interesting point - how readers don't "get it" and might take a disliking for a poem because they don't realize there's a form being followed. I know I'm more impressed with poetry now that I do know the forms (erotic or not). I find it impressive when someone can deliver a message with meaning -- but to do so while conforming to a structure of poetry is really impressive to me. But this took me actually learning about poetic form (thanks to my college intro-poetry text book here). The point of this here rambling then - how much does the understanding of poetry in the reader count towards how poetry is critisized, or in this case, scored?

"Never one to let a thread die too quick...."


H.Pindar

 

[tigerjen]

here's my two cents

I didn't really start writing poetry for myself until
earlier this year....back in February.....it just started
spilling out like sugar from the bowl.....I myself cannot
do the "traditional" forms of poetry......writing poetry the
way I do is my way of expressing myself.....and its not
"the norm"....however, in much of my erotic poetry
I tend to use many "double-entendres"

Tigerjen

 

[letsallgetlaid]

Ohhhhh poetry YES!

This is going to see strange but I find poetry much more sensual than most exact explanations that you find in a lot of stories. My fiancee first introduced me to Lit by reading me a few stories to get me in the mood. They honestly sort of turned me on a little but when I printed him a poem and had him read me that....well he didn't even finish it before I was tackling him. They leave so much more to the imagination and with a great imagination you can get a lot more. I can put myself into the truth of a poem so much easier. Of course this is one of those broad generalizations that doesn't really hold true for all poetry or all stories.

 

[tigerjen]

to each their own!

hi letsallgetlaid!

I don't find it strange that you find poetry more sensual
than stories! As I like to say....."to each their own"

Tigerjen

 

[letsallgetlaid]

Yipee

Finally someone who doesn't think I'm totally insane.
Thank you very much

 

[daughter]

Forms

HomerPindar--

I have enjoyed your posts on this topic. I believe poetry often receives low marks regardless of form when the reader's only criteria is if he/she likes it. I think that is unfortunate(especially for the writer).

Now add into the mix a form that the reader does not recognize and you increase the odds of the reader not only rejecting your work because the form is unfamiliar, but she may not like how the sound of the form sounds to her ear.

Write a poem that involves poetry devices, and again you run the risk of alienating the reader. If your poem's meaning is not readily clear to the reader, you lose a point and interest. Frankly, think about what we didn't like about most published poems we read in school. We didn't understand them. How often do you like something you don't comprehend?

Free verse that relies heavily on emotion seems to be most popular with readers. With writers and students of poetry, traditional forms used to express modern sensibilities and themes are more readily accepted.

I wasn't crazy about Milton's "Paradise Lost" in college. The language was arcane and the form was foreign to me. That didn't stop me from recognizing the genius of the work, but having to study it to get it, did affect the pleasure I got out of it. Later, when I studied Shakespeare, again I had to first immerse myself in the form and the language. With these works comprehension came easier, and I enjoyed his work. Once I understood what he was saying, I marvelled at his humor and skill.

I think often it is well worth a little study to understand something. Ever read novel or story, and some parts threw you for a loop? I read Toni Morrison's "The Bluest Eye" my freshman. Sorry, much of it I just didn't get. Took a few years(exposure) and a few classes later.

It is disheartening to me that many readers do not want to invest in a bit of study and learning to appreciate poetry. If a work has to be pure emotion and easily understood for a reader to like it, I believe many are missing out on so much in a wondrous art.

Learning some basic mechanics and forms doesn't have to be daunting. And much of modern poetry is free verse(a form that many mistakenly believes anything goes). Metaphor, similie, tone, sound, and pace, are elements we already use and recognize in prose. Why are these absent in so much of poetry on our forums(I'm talking about poetry boards and forums across the net)? These devices enrich poetry not inhibit it. A modern sonnet that takes some liberties with form is refreshing. A pantoum about modern times can be very enjoyable.

Dr. Sanchez told her students that forms will not deform you. They provide you with ideas and options to incorporate in your free verse. Rhyme does not have to sound forced. Poetry that uses rhyme in addition with other devices and skill can entertain. Eloise Greenfield's "Honey I love" comes to mind. Sonia Sanchez writes kickass haiku and tanka. Robert Bly, a devotee of Rumi writes meditative verse that enriches us. Carolynne Forshee is champion of prose poetry.

We don't have to go back to the classics to appreciate forms. We have plenty of contemporary poets who studied, emulated and created their own styles based on traditional forms. The late, Gwendolynn Brooks established her career on traditional ballads. Later she used free form to express much of political activism. Read your Beat poets. They broke all the rules. Read their histories, and you'll know they knew them first.

We ardently study when wanting to improve our fiction. When it comes to poetry, a common assertion is "Poetry is from the heart". My feeling is, is your fiction any less personal to you? Are you any less passionate about the stories you write?

Write from the heart. Does Shakespeare impress anyone as someone who wrote without empathy and emotion? All art forms have tools for its craft. Poetry is no different.


Thanks for the post, HomerPindar. I will look for your work.

Peace,

daughter

 

[daughter]

Who says forms ain't erotic

HomerPindar--

I beg to differ. Read your first Pantoum. Damn good, poet! Well-written. This forms creates a slow, enticing pace. Your lines are smooth, sensual, and inviting(As our narrator well knows). I know you were following the form, but there was one line where the line break was perfection. The transition was way cool. Sorry, I didn't copy & paste it. Let folks discover it themselves.

Kudos. Would someone pass me a glass of water? This boy has gotten me hotttttttttttttttttttttt.

For those who appreciate a fine erotic poem-- oh, it's a form(hheeeeeeeeeee):

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?page=1000&id=25882


(((d applauding))))

Peace,

daughter

 

[HomerPindar]

Carrying water...

Thank you, daughter (now if that is not an instant reference to the kinky in an introduction, I'm a politician),

I've just been considering my need for insperation to write another batch of poems, and I dare say, such fan appreciation does the trick every time. And, indeed, I've noted your commentary on others poetry, very constructive with a fine understanding of the personal investment made by the author. I dare say, that alone shows a skill with words -- poetry can be such a difficult thing to remark on because we have it so vested in our way of thinking that poetry is "from the heart." Hence, we tend to take our poetry very personally. As such, I'm quite thrilled to get ones heart racing while reading my words. In fact, I consider the very heart of erotica the ability to put ones thoughts, actions and feelings secondary to the thoughts, feelings and sensations of another. That, at least, is the goal of my poetry, prose, and relationships. Two out of three anyone...?



H.Pindar