On 2nd person

[StillStunned]

Second person and present tense are two things that will make me dip out of any story immediately.

I used to say the exact same thing. Then one day I decided to see whether I could make 1P present tense work. And then I decided to try 2P.

It's not my favourite, and I've noped out of books written in 1P present tense, never mind 2P. But I'm more willing nowadays to consider that they have merit, and can be used to achieve a specific effect (besides deterring readers).

 

[iwatchus]

Second person and present tense are two things that will make me dip out of any story immediately.

Why do you hate present tense so much?

 

[UnexpectedLuggage]

Why do you hate present tense so much?

It reads weird to me. I don't know what it is, but present tense writing just messes with my brain. Even when we verbally tell a story, it's past tense.

 

[StillStunned]

It reads weird to me. I don't know what it is, but present tense writing just messes with my brain. Even when we verbally tell a story, it's past tense.

It depends on the style.

"So I'm at the coffee place, right, and I'm waiting in line for my turn. And suddenly this woman comes in, right, all la-dee-da like she owns the place, cuts the line and goes right up to the barista. And I'm like, 'Hey bitch, if you're asking where the line starts, it's back there!' And then it turns out that she actually does own the place. So guess who's looking for a new place to get coffee?"

 

[ElectricBlue]

It reads weird to me. I don't know what it is, but present tense writing just messes with my brain. Even when we verbally tell a story, it's past tense.

My default style is generally past tense, but I find on occasion when I come to the intense, intimate sex scenes I shift into present tense. It's the immediacy, I think, being in the moment. Then, when the scene finishes, I naturally shift back into past tense. Sometimes I edit it all back to past tense, sometimes I leave it as is - depends on the mood of the story.

And you know what, nobody has ever commented except @SimonDoom that one time. I've never edited that story, never will!

My most recent story breaks the other cardinal rule - don't shift point of view rapidly, people (allegedly) don't like that. Haha: again, not one comment when I alternate between two characters and the occasional third party, and a fourth bit part for a single paragraph. It's multiple immersion!

 

[OddLove]

Too me, reading 2P when it's Not a 'Choose Your Own Adventure' is like playing a video game without interacting with it and having some level or control and choice.

It's like watching Mario run around smashing his head into blocks and stomping on turtles, but I don't have a controller and I'm just pretending I'm playing and I'm Mario

If a 2P Story isn't giving me control of the character, I rather just read a 1P or 3P story.

If a video game isn't giving me control of the character, I rather just watch a movie/TV show.

 

[AG31]

"What about a story?" said Christopher Robin.
"What about a story?" I said.
"Could you very sweetly tell Winnie-the-Pooh one?"
"I suppose I could," I said. "What sort of stories does he like?"
"About himself. Because he's that sort of Bear."
"Oh, I see."
"So could you very sweetly?"
"I'll try," I said.
So I tried.
- From: Winnie-the-Pooh, by A.A. Milne

My first reaction is ,
But my second reaction is to remember hearing that Milne's son was jealous of WtP and felt that he was a neglected child. I wish someone could prove to me that that is nonsense...

 

[SimonDoom]

My first reaction is ,
But my second reaction is to remember hearing that Milne's son was jealous of WtP and felt that he was a neglected child. I wish someone could prove to me that that is nonsense...

"Where's Pooh?" Christopher Robin asked.

"He's at the other end of the 100-Acre Wood," Piglet said, wondering why Christopher Robin had a twisted, maniacal look on his face.

"Say, what's the gun for?" Piglet asked.

"Never mind," Christopher Robin said, stalking briskly off in the direction of the 100-Acre Wood.

"Silly old bear, my ass," Piglet heard him say as he disappeared into the trees.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

"Where's Pooh?" Christopher Robin asked.

"He's at the other end of the 100-Acre Wood," Piglet said, wondering why Christopher Robin had a twisted, maniacal look on his face.

"Say, what's the gun for?" Piglet asked.

"Never mind," Christopher Robin said, stalking briskly off in the direction of the 100-Acre Wood.

"Silly old bear, my ass," Piglet heard him say as he disappeared into the trees.

I'd be more worried if I was Piglet. Bacon is much better than bear meat and is known to assuage feelings of despair...

 

[UnexpectedLuggage]

It depends on the style.

"So I'm at the coffee place, right, and I'm waiting in line for my turn. And suddenly this woman comes in, right, all la-dee-da like she owns the place, cuts the line and goes right up to the barista. And I'm like, 'Hey bitch, if you're asking where the line starts, it's back there!' And then it turns out that she actually does own the place. So guess who's looking for a new place to get coffee?"

That's fair. Like I said, I can't rationally explain why, but when I'm reading a story present tense just weirds me right the fuck out.

If I'm playing a tabletop RPG? Yeah, I expect everything to be done in present tense. But in a book it just breaks my brain for some reason.

 

[Britva415]

It depends on the style.

"So I'm at the coffee place, right, and I'm waiting in line for my turn. And suddenly this woman comes in, right, all la-dee-da like she owns the place, cuts the line and goes right up to the barista. And I'm like, 'Hey bitch, if you're asking where the line starts, it's back there!' And then it turns out that she actually does own the place. So guess who's looking for a new place to get coffee?"

In other words, it gives "not literary"

That's my take. Not to put words in your mouth.

 

[Britva415]

To me, the problem with any type of present-tense narration, regardless of which voice it's in, is when the "immediacy" everyone praises doesn't have a narrative reason.

If the story itself doesn't frame why and how the narration is ostensibly happening in realtime with the events, then I personally feel like it's not justified and it actually wrecks any sense of immediacy because of that cognitive dissonance.

 

[StillStunned]

To me, the problem with any type of present-tense narration, regardless of which voice it's in, is when the "immediacy" everyone praises doesn't have a narrative reason.

If the story itself doesn't frame why and how the narration is ostensibly happening in realtime with the events, then I personally feel like it's not justified and it actually wrecks any sense of immediacy because of that cognitive dissonance.

Completely agree. A while back my wife asked me to buy a book for her that some friends were going on about - a huge fantasy bestseller. So I put it on my Kobo, and out of boredom started reading it. It's entirely in 1P present tense. Not only that, there are four or five different 1P POVs.

Apparently it's a modern thing, particularly in fantasy. I can't help but feel that it's cheap and lazy. The writer using the immediacy of the format instead of more appropriate techniques, and it's the reader who has to put in the extra energy of staying on the edge of the action all the time.

 

[XerXesXu]

To me, the problem with any type of present-tense narration, regardless of which voice it's in, is when the "immediacy" everyone praises doesn't have a narrative reason.

If the story itself doesn't frame why and how the narration is ostensibly happening in realtime with the events, then I personally feel like it's not justified and it actually wrecks any sense of immediacy because of that cognitive dissonance.

But, when you're down the pub, and the raconteur lapses into the 'vivid present', do you suffer cognitive dissonance? It's an instinctive feature of oral story telling; perhaps it takes more skill to make the transition in text.

 

[Britva415]

But, when you're down the pub, and the raconteur lapses into the 'vivid present', do you suffer cognitive dissonance? It's an instinctive feature of oral story telling; perhaps it takes more skill to make the transition in text.

Of course not, but isn't it obvious that I'm not talking about oral storytelling? This is the Authors' Hangout, not the Plough-and-Stars.

And just to be clear, I'm also NOT talking about a story which includes, or is even entirely a transcript of, an in-universe oral telling.

See, that would be one example of the kind of frame I talked about which could justify (to me) this kind of narration.

I mean, I'm not saying don't write whatever you want however you want. As you say, maybe someone has the skill to pull it off without such a frame. When I click into a random Lit story and find present-tense narration, I just don't ever expect that, because of the frequency with which absolutely no effort to establish any type of a frame is made.

I'm also not saying the flaw is a fatal one. I will still give such a story a chance.

But I'm just one guy. Some others don't even notice and some others don't care about what I care about at all even if they do notice.

 

[iwatchus]

Thanks everyone for adding in the discussion of present. I have mostly in 1P present thus far, because it sounded better to my ear when I was writing it. I have been playing with others and wanted to understand why and when I should change.

I did have a reader on my most recent story (fully in 1P present) complain bitterly about the story using "He walks out" instead of "He walked out". Note that this was 8K into the story, which was 100% in 1P present except some earlier reminiscing. Not sure why it suddenly bothered him so much -- he had to stop reading and give me a 1 for story because of it. Oh well.

 

[Britva415]

This is the Authors' Hangout, not the Plough-and-Stars.

"'Ay! Mickey! Tell the feckin' story RIGHT, ya coont!"

 

[big_cane_sugar]

You like this post.

You like this post so much it makes you horny.

What an amazing post. Not very big but so hard and it touches you in all the right places.

Unfortunately, this post has finished prematurely. You wanted so much more but it has nothing to give.

The owner of this post has gone to sleep so you feel free to take care of yourself. You fantasize about a very different post.