older or younger child?

[graceanne]

Hey, I never said this was hard and fast. I said this is what MOST birth order proponants say. And I'm definately not an authority on any of it.

I know. And frankly, with the problems our family had, miss and I aren't what I'd call perfect examples. In our family miss was the good girl - the angel, etc. She'd go seriously out of the way to make sure she stayed the good girl and I the bad girl. She was the cute little girl who'd climb up on your lap and snuggle you, even if you just beat the crap out of her. She talked in a cute little piping voice and and would grin to show off her dimples.

I was the caregiver and the scapegoat. I took care of the owies and the nightmares and everything else. I also got in trouble for just about everything - cause I looked like my mom I must be like my mom was what everyone figured. It didn't help that I refused to play the cute little girl. I was very proud and not very friendly. I also had strong intuition, even then, and didn't like most of the people my mom surrounded herself with. They were all users, drug addicts, etc. They knew that I didn't like them and therefore didn't like me.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I know. And frankly, with the problems our family had, miss and I aren't what I'd call perfect examples. In our family miss was the good girl - the angel, etc. She'd go seriously out of the way to make sure she stayed the good girl and I the bad girl. She was the cute little girl who'd climb up on your lap and snuggle you, even if you just beat the crap out of her. She talked in a cute little piping voice and and would grin to show off her dimples.

I was the caregiver and the scapegoat. I took care of the owies and the nightmares and everything else. I also got in trouble for just about everything - cause I looked like my mom I must be like my mom was what everyone figured. It didn't help that I refused to play the cute little girl. I was very proud and not very friendly. I also had strong intuition, even then, and didn't like most of the people my mom surrounded herself with. They were all users, drug addicts, etc. They knew that I didn't like them and therefore didn't like me.

You are so typical first born, it's not even funny.

"I got in trouble..."
"I was the caregiver..."
"I took care of everything..."

 

[snowy ciara]

Hugs Gracie. I promise I didn't poison the cupcakes this time.

 

[shy slave]

Hmmm I am the youngest but the others are 5+ yrs older so does that make me the youngest or the eldest??

As a child I disliked attention but loved getting my middle sister into trouble, most of the time I was pretty good at it and the rest of the time I was just mean to her.
In return she was sneakier and less up front than me so I ended up in trouble ALOT.

I didnt play the 'cute girl' nor was I friendly, yet I ended up as a working in the care profession for over twenty years.

This whole thread leaves me confused, I thought I knew who I was but now I am re-checking to see if I am actually female

Gracie, what do I vote in the poll now??

ADR is there a nice couch I can lay on somewhere in this thread, just until the padded van turns up?

 

[A Desert Rose]

Hmmm I am the youngest but the others are 5+ yrs older so does that make me the youngest or the eldest??

As a child I disliked attention but loved getting my middle sister into trouble, most of the time I was pretty good at it and the rest of the time I was just mean to her.
In return she was sneakier and less up front than me so I ended up in trouble ALOT.

I didnt play the 'cute girl' nor was I friendly, yet I ended up as a working in the care profession for over twenty years.

This whole thread leaves me confused, I thought I knew who I was but now I am re-checking to see if I am actually female

Gracie, what do I vote in the poll now??

ADR is there a nice couch I can lay on somewhere in this thread, just until the padded van turns up?

You are - according to the books I've read and stuff I learned in my psych classes - a first born.

Therefore you are do not have the common characteristic of the family baby.

 

[graceanne]

You are so typical first born, it's not even funny.

"I got in trouble..."
"I was the caregiver..."
"I took care of everything..."

LOL I know. I'm not arguing that I'm a typical first born - I am. lol That's how I know that first borns rock.

 

[A Desert Rose]

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hstein/birthord.htm

As it states at the top, it's a broad simplification of Adler's theory.

 

[snowy ciara]

If we make me the only child and add the only girl among boys thing, they get a bit closer.

 

[A Desert Rose]

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/development/birth_order.htm

There are lots of books on the subject and obviously lots of websites. It's interesting to read and then relate, or not, to your life, your spouse or partner, your own children... etc.

I would suggest you read, especially if you find it to be real bullshit. There are psychologists and counselors who think it's bullshit, too.

And no one here has talked about being the middle child. I find that the most interesting thing of all.

 

[graceanne]

Well it was mostly girls. My brothers i only spent a bit of time with here and their - they lived with their mom's and me with mine. But I was never dressed as a boy. lol I was always very feminine.

But I'm definately the oldest. Although I never resented Miss cause I was dethroned. Frankly with the lack of age gap I probably didn't notice. I was six months old when Mom got preggo with her. Mom says I was in love with Miss from day one. I used to go running to mom when Miss would start to wake up and say 'Mama! Baby cwy!'. Then I'd bug her till she took care of it. lol

 

[shy slave]

You are - according to the books I've read and stuff I learned in my psych classes - a first born.

Therefore you are do not have the common characteristic of the family baby.

Thanks ADR

I was beginning to worry!

 

[DVS]

I don't think that ADR thinks of subs as weaker. As a matter of fact I'd be very surprised if she did, since she's one of the strongest people I know.

I think I saw her lifting weights just the other day.

I'm the oldest of six. *shrugs* And I'mnot looking to irritate people, I'm just curious.

The poll is tainted. You didn't include anything about gender and I think it plays a lot in how a sibling will turn out.

At least I think it was a reason I turned out a Dom, bing #3 in a family of 4. I'm the only boy. I think I might have turned out differently, if my older brother had lived. He dided of SIDS. That would have helped a lot in making the war zone eqaul for me. But, it didn't happen.

And, I have two older sisters who are 5 and 6 years older than me. And tecause they are only a year apart, they would gang up on me, complaining that I didn't help with house work, cooking, cleaning, etc.

I had my jobs, too, but they never brought that part up. It was always when they had to work, and I would go with my dad and watch TV that bothered them the most.

I'm not the youngest, but I'm the only male sibling. I'm not submissive at all, and I wonder if any of this "male bashing" I went though growing up had an effect on me. Maybe I"m getting back at my sisters, though other women?

Well, I don't think that is the case, really, because I don't do anything a woman doesn't want. But, I do wonder if some of this social science is anything to believe, either.

Oh, I do think my oldest sister has controlling aspects in her personality. I'll grant you that. But, she also has a persecution complex and will cry at the drop of a hat, if she doesn't get her way. She's been that way all of her life. She always thought her way was best, and if others didn't think so, well, the tears would flow.

So, I wonder if that could be considered Domme material at all. Here is this 58 year old woman that will still cry if she feels persecuted. The rest of us have learned to deal with her condition by not getting into confrontations with her that would result in tears but I don't think our family really fits into the mold of the oldest being Domly and the younger being submissive.

 

[the captians wench]

Eldist of 3, One brother and one sister, and I'm a happy little subby. My sister is a lot younger than my brother and myself, so I have had a tendency to be more assertive around her, but my brother and I always fought for the higher positions so to speak. I can be very assertive when I need to be but for the most part I don't like to be. I'm very submissive in nature, this relates to all aspects of my life. This does make it harder for me when I'm working on a promotion at work, but I am also very diligent and willing to prove myself. My brother if he ever chose to be would deffinitly fall into the dom cat. He would make a wonderful caring and strict dom. I think he has some intrest in the life, but my family has not taken well to my status and he has kids and needs the suport. It sadens me really.

 

[FurryFury]

For the record I am so not a perfectionist. I think the word perfect which is impossible to live up to is a dirty word. I never could live up to it for my parents and I don't try to be perfect now. I sort of equate Anal Retentive Personalities and Perfectionism, no offense to anyone since I have no idea who is that way here. I simply am not that way. Here are some lyrics about being perfect that resonate with me and I suspect many people. We can never measure up.

Fury

Perfect

Sometimes is never quite enough

If you’re flawless, then you’ll win my love

Don’t forget to win first place

Don’t forget to keep that smile on your face

Be a good boy

Try a little harder

You’ve got to measure up and make me prouder

How long before you screw it up

How many times do I have to tell you to hurry up

With everything I do for you

The least you can do is keep quiet

Be a good girl

You’ve gotta try a little harder

That simply wasn’t good enough

To make us proud

I’ll live through you

I’ll make you what I never was

If you’re the best, then maybe so am I

Compared to him

Compared to her

I’m doing this for your own damn good

You’ll make up for what I blew

What’s the problem…

Why are you crying

Be a good boy

Push a little farther now

That wasn’t fast enough

To make us happy

We’ll love you just the way you are

If you’re perfect​

 

[BeachGurl2]

Yes, Fury. I can certainly relate to those lyrics. As the oldest, I was expected to be perfect, to set an example. And of course, it was never quite good enough. It's funny. I'm the only person in my family who went to college. My mom acts proud about it sometimes, but then other times treats me like I think I'm smarter or better than she is so she has to knock me back down a peg or two. It's difficult to live up to expectations when you don't really know what they are or they change on you when you do reach them. Add being a good little southern girl to that mix and you get one screwed up kid. Took me a long time to comes to terms with all that. Now I am who I am, no apologies.

 

[graceanne]

For the record I am so not a perfectionist. I think the word perfect which is impossible to live up to is a dirty word. I never could live up to it for my parents and I don't try to be perfect now. I sort of equate Anal Retentive Personalities and Perfectionism, no offense to anyone since I have no idea who is that way here. I simply am not that way. Here are some lyrics about being perfect that resonate with me and I suspect many people. We can never measure up.

Fury

Perfect

Sometimes is never quite enough

If you’re flawless, then you’ll win my love

Don’t forget to win first place

Don’t forget to keep that smile on your face

Be a good boy

Try a little harder

You’ve got to measure up and make me prouder

How long before you screw it up

How many times do I have to tell you to hurry up

With everything I do for you

The least you can do is keep quiet

Be a good girl

You’ve gotta try a little harder

That simply wasn’t good enough

To make us proud

I’ll live through you

I’ll make you what I never was

If you’re the best, then maybe so am I

Compared to him

Compared to her

I’m doing this for your own damn good

You’ll make up for what I blew

What’s the problem…

Why are you crying

Be a good boy

Push a little farther now

That wasn’t fast enough

To make us happy

We’ll love you just the way you are

If you’re perfect​

Yeah, well - hell is for chidlren.

 

[FurryFury]

Yes, Fury. I can certainly relate to those lyrics. As the oldest, I was expected to be perfect, to set an example. And of course, it was never quite good enough. It's funny. I'm the only person in my family who went to college. My mom acts proud about it sometimes, but then other times treats me like I think I'm smarter or better than she is so she has to knock me back down a peg or two. It's difficult to live up to expectations when you don't really know what they are or they change on you when you do reach them. Add being a good little southern girl to that mix and you get one screwed up kid. Took me a long time to comes to terms with all that. Now I am who I am, no apologies.

I can relate to what your saying. Good for you that you have now come to terms with yourself and are comfortable.

*hugs*

Fury

Yeah, well - hell is for chidlren.

Except, hopefully, our (universal our) children, I've tried to give them what I didn't get.

Fury

 

[graceanne]

Except, hopefully, our (universal our) children, I've tried to give them what I didn't get.

Fury

I try.

 

[Marquis]

Interesting thread.

I am the oldest of three children of my mother's. Two younger half-sisters 5 and 10 years my junior. I am my father's only child.

I am Dominant sexually, and generally an Alpha male socially, although not obsessively so. Too lazy to be a true Type A personality.

 

[Marquis]

Respectfully, I take issue with you taking issue with how I define myself. Please don't do it again.

Thank you for your supportive comment, but I actually do not see myself as second class, either here or anywhere else.

You did not offend me. No need to apologize.

Alice

Well, you're free to define yourself as Killah Neath, the 11th member of the Wu-Tang Clan, if it makes you happy, but your reasoning was bogus.

Following the Cartesian "Cogito, ergo sum" line of reasoning, we are our fantasies. I think measuring ourselves by what we actually do in real life is totally misguided since few of us get to truly express ourselves sexually at all.

Take a look at Rosco! I don't think anyone would argue about his "Dom" status (except for maybe him to be cheeky) and he hasn't had a woman in years! His palms are so hairy he doesn't need a sponge to wash the dishes.

 

[kaeyron]

Graceann,

This thread invokes memories of college days past ... I was a psychology major when I first entered college and one fo teh topics we discussed was "Sexual Deviation" ... now if memory serves most people who take a "submissive" role in this lifestyle are usually those in positions of power in the mundane world .. people who are the top of teh coporate ladder, more highly educated and such.

Now what I remember being stated in my studies was that often people in these positions of power when they dealt with relationships liked to give up that power totally ... because it was such a change from their normal day to day that it was erotic to them ... it was like a drug in many senses .. that once they relinquished the power they held during 9 to 5 .. they felt more free and true to themselves.

Now if there has been some study about where you are born and how you succeed, I don't recall ... but generally Older Children are the trailblazers ... they are the ones who take the bulk of responsibilities .. think about when you go out ... if you have multiple children if there is enough of an age difference between them often you will leave the older one in charge ... thereby giving them authority over their younger siblings. The older children are often more protective of their younger siblings ... and so on and so forth ..

I would think that the converse of your statement would hold true more often ... as the Older Children always have the power since a young age ... that when they explore this type of culture they would gravitate to the submissive role while the younger who are often the more controlled would gravitate towards the dominant .. since this the most extreme change in personality ... so there would be more of an "intoxicating" effect to it.

But this is a purely academic thought from my psych major days .. as I am myself new to this field, I don't have the experience to say empirically what the actual relation is...

[Too bad I'm not a psych major anymore, this might be an interesting study for a thesis .. =) ]

 

[alice_underneath]

Well, you're free to define yourself as Killah Neath, the 11th member of the Wu-Tang Clan, if it makes you happy, but your reasoning was bogus.

Following the Cartesian "Cogito, ergo sum" line of reasoning, we are our fantasies. I think measuring ourselves by what we actually do in real life is totally misguided since few of us get to truly express ourselves sexually at all.

Take a look at Rosco! I don't think anyone would argue about his "Dom" status (except for maybe him to be cheeky) and he hasn't had a woman in years! His palms are so hairy he doesn't need a sponge to wash the dishes.

LOL, Marquis! The new avatar is classic. It's too bad you can't leave it permanently in place on the whore thread, where it would be quite apropos!

I appreciate what you are trying to do here. (And you are only confirming my suspicion of what goes on behind that mask. )

However..... cogito, ergo sum notwithstanding, unless you have the strength and determination to finish law school and pass the bar, you will never be a lawyer.

Where men are concerned, I have had trust issues for my entire life. And while the d/s fantasies in my head are spectacular, I am not all certain that I would be able to trust a guy this much r/l - even if just in the bedroom.

Alice

 

[Marquis]

I appreciate what you are trying to do here. (And you are only confirming my suspicion of what goes on behind that mask.

Ummm.... yeeeaaaaaah.

However..... cogito, ergo sum notwithstanding, unless you have the strength and determination to finish law school and pass the bar, you will never be a lawyer.

Where men are concerned, I have had trust issues for my entire life. And while the d/s fantasies in my head are spectacular, I am not all certain that I would be able to trust a guy this much r/l - even if just in the bedroom.

Alice

You're comparing apples to electrons here.

"Lawyer" is a term to describe a profession while "sub" is a term to describe a sexual orientation. Fucking guys in jail doesn't make you gay any more than having a wife and kids makes you straight. At the end of the day, it's what you see when you close your eyes that makes you who you are.

You don't have to act out all or even any of your fantasies to be true to your orientation. Half of the people on this board would be criminals if we acted on ALL of our fantasies. But the nature of your sexuality, the language that it speaks, is intrinsic to who you are and will color your perception of everything you do regardless of whether or not you choose to outwardly acknowledge it.

 

[alice_underneath]

You're comparing apples to electrons here.

"Lawyer" is a term to describe a profession while "sub" is a term to describe a sexual orientation. Fucking guys in jail doesn't make you gay any more than having a wife and kids makes you straight. At the end of the day, it's what you see when you close your eyes that makes you who you are.

You don't have to act out all or even any of your fantasies to be true to your orientation. Half of the people on this board would be criminals if we acted on ALL of our fantasies. But the nature of your sexuality, the language that it speaks, is intrinsic to who you are and will color your perception of everything you do regardless of whether or not you choose to outwardly acknowledge it.

I am heading out to dinner, so this will have to be brief.

Our disagreement appears to stem from a problem of word usage.

I would definitely describe myself as a woman who is sexually submissive.

However, I do not consider it fair to say: "I am a sub" (the phrasing in this poll).

The reason for the latter statement is this: I do not know if I possess the courage and ability to trust which is required to be a sub.

My personal view of what it means to "be a sub" involves more than just role playing or an urge to be tied up and dominated. My personal definition of what it means to "be a sub" involves a strength of character that I am not sure I possess.

Alice

 

[rosco rathbone]

dominant master, oldest of 2 brothers.