Old Style Tools

[amicus]

I've been involved with design and construction all my life, we all know that our economy demands mass production. Modern building construction has mostly been reduced to "assembling" manufactured parts. And while this is a reality, it's just not the same as craftsmanship.

Take the marble pillar, at a distance they may both look identical. They may have taken the same amount of time to produce. But in the end, which would you rather rub you hand against?

I think what I miss the most about true old world craftsmanship is the joy of seeing and touching something created by the human hand. Perhaps the old window is not as efficient as a new triple paned argon filled vinyl sheathed beauty (retail $159.99); but to see the love in the joints and grooves where it was planed somehow makes me feel more human myself.

~~~

Perhaps it is fitting to find beauty inboth, old world craftsmanship and mass production techniques? I have admiration for hand crafted works but I am also greatly impressed with modern things.

There are a couple of programs, something like "How they make that" and "Where do these come from"...the latest one I saw was about neon tube manufacture, beginning with a glass tube that is heated and bent in a U shape and then the entire process that turned out 14 florescent lights each minute.

Completely automated, even the testing step at the age and the packaging.

I am forced to think of the knowledge and skill of the minds that invented, created and designed the machines that did the work, all looked over but not attended by humans. I have seen dozens of those programs, from making Twinkies, to baking bread and making M&M's, some really amazing processes.

Once the machines have been tweaked to function, the product quality assured, they just pop out, identical, one after the other.

Oh, well....just a thought...


Amicus...

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've been involved with design and construction all my life, we all know that our economy demands mass production. Modern building construction has mostly been reduced to "assembling" manufactured parts. And while this is a reality, it's just not the same as craftsmanship.

Take the marble pillar, at a distance they may both look identical. They may have taken the same amount of time to produce. But in the end, which would you rather rub you hand against?

I think what I miss the most about true old world craftsmanship is the joy of seeing and touching something created by the human hand. Perhaps the old window is not as efficient as a new triple paned argon filled vinyl sheathed beauty (retail $159.99); but to see the love in the joints and grooves where it was planed somehow makes me feel more human myself.

I do all my work by hand. My hands touch every part of anything I make. They guide the wood through the table saw and hold it in place for sanding. The painted pillar is painted, every inch of it, with the brushes, rags, feathers, that I hold in my hands. Sometimes, I use my fingers, even! And it feels good to the touch.

The wooden sash windows we mostly see were made with power tools; millers and shapers were among the first uses of power.
The last time I saw hand-worked carpentry-- in the sense of drawknives and handsaws-- was in the late sixties/early seventies, done by the crazy-ass rebel longhair hippies who were building the Nepenthe Inn in Big Sur. And they had to hunt out the knowledge once more-- hand work was nearly extinct by that time.

 

[yukonnights]

I think the point I was trying to make is more about the uniqueness of a handmade creation. Actually, in my mind I see a one hundred year old adobe in SW Colorado, or the hand crafted cabin my friend built near the Tannana River, or the five centuries old church (still in use) someplace in Italy, or even the thousand year old cliff dwellings in the four corners area of the southwest .

Mind you, nothing is perfect, maybe not even square, but to be able to see it, to touch it and somehow connect to man's history. Something I just don't get from a piece of gyp-board or vinyl siding.

And Stella I certainly wasn't using the "pillar" example in a personal way, it was just a handy launching point. I should have compared the marble pillar to a fiberglass one out of a box. That would have been more appropriate to my point about modern construction being more about "assemblies" than craftsmanship. I too use power tools (and for that matter anything that works) to accomplish a given task and that doesn't take away from the hand made beauty.

And Ami your point too is taken. There is no turning back in a nostalgic mist of longing. But the impressiveness of modern marvels do not provide the same sense of connectedness with humanity as something molded and shaped with love and human hands.

 

[THROBBS]

Not all crooked houses were made with love.

I am quite sure that there were"craftsmen" (tradesmen?) who did things by hand who were "just doing their job" and at times found it tedious.

Conversely, I have experienced drywallers who were more than "just" tradesmen (a craftsman) and enjoyed mudding and taping (quickly) with no sign of a seam. [I have an OLD house. I MUCH prefer gypsum walls to plaster/lath... and by golly when done right... they look the same].

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE (many) hand crafted items. It is part of my life.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not all crooked houses were made with love.

My adored ex-landlord... insisted on doing all the work on his properties himself-- maybe with a skeleton crew of drunken hillbillies if necessary-- and such horrible work you never did see. Nothing was square, nothing was close to straight.
I made him hire me. I found the level in the dusty corner of his garage and showed him how to use it. I reminded him that such a thing as a plumb bob existed (that was when I made mine)

This man was a wonderful freind, and an excellent landlord, don't get me wrong. But there was something missing in his thought processes; once he told me that, when he was painting a wall white, he could not envision what it would look like once the painting was finished...

 

[THROBBS]

heehee!

I love it!

Our house (the "core") is over a 100 years old. Some people my say "Victorian"... but that conjurs up images of "gingerbread" and gables... sigh.

Not our house... it's just old. A blue collar house made with a lot of hand tools... and I suspect not lots of "love" but no doubt a lot of necessity. There certainly has been love IN the house since and many stories (not in elevation but tales). "old" is not always "good"

 

[Stella_Omega]

heehee!

I love it!

Our house (the "core") is over a 100 years old. Some people my say "Victorian"... but that conjurs up images of "gingerbread" and gables... sigh.

Not our house... it's just old. A blue collar house made with a lot of hand tools... and I suspect not lots of "love" but no doubt a lot of necessity. There certainly has been love IN the house since and many stories (not in elevation but tales). "old" is not always "good"

but it's always "Picturesque"!

 

[THROBBS]

but it's always "Picturesque"!

yeah... "Picturesuqe"...that's it.
a euphemism if ever.



Brocolli-Tofu Soda tastes "Interesting"

 

[Stella_Omega]

yeah... "Picturesuqe"...that's it.
a euphemism if ever.



Brocolli-Tofu Soda tastes "Interesting"

Driving through SOuth georgia, you can see old sharecropper's cabins-- some of them are old enough to have been slave's cabins. They are gorgeous to look at-- the wood softened with time, aged to silver, steps askew, cracked and blackened shingles on the roof. Only-- people still live in them.

 

[THROBBS]

Yes. I should have you describe ME!

".................." except somebody is living in there! (ew)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes. I should have you describe ME!

".................." except somebody is living in there! (ew)

A dewormer could help with that... (ew)

 

[THROBBS]

teehee!

 

[SlickTony]

What is a draw knife anyway?

I think there might be a brace & bit in my dad's stuff. He had a wonderful tool collection. I imagine she'll leave it to my BIl when she shuffles off.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A draw knife is a longish blade with a handle at each end. You grab one in each hand and draw it towards yourself, over the surface of the wood. You can shape large areas with one... They are generally flat, but a spokeshave is curved-- so that you can make rounded edges on a board, for instance making spokes for wagon wheels (and of course we need those all the time! ) And an inshave is kinda the opposite-- you can shape a hollow into the wood with it.
I've used them once, just to learn how-- not since then.

 

[SeaCat]

Stella,

Corrrect about the draw knife. The one my father has just set aside for me is the one I learned with. It has a 12 inch handle and a two inch wide adjustable blade.

I can with this quickly and easily shave/shape a room or a cabinet door.

Your comment about making the lumb bob reminded me that I too could do that with a simple heavy fishing weight and some thin line. Thanks. (The one I want is the one my father found. A beautifully turned Brass Teardrop weight.)

One rather unique tool my father has he inherited from his Grandfather. It is a Plane with multiple blades. These blades are all different widths but they all have one thing in common. The cutting end is a convex curve. This plane is used to cut grooves of different depths.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

What is a draw knife anyway?

I think there might be a brace & bit in my dad's stuff. He had a wonderful tool collection. I imagine she'll leave it to my BIl when she shuffles off.

One of my neighbors when I was growing up built Post and Beam Houses. He had a brace with one of the most impressive Bit Collections I have ever seen.

He also had an absolutely incredible collection of antique tools that he used on a daily basis.

We're talking this guy could literaly walk up to a pile of logs and build a house out of them.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

~~~

Perhaps it is fitting to find beauty inboth, old world craftsmanship and mass production techniques? I have admiration for hand crafted works but I am also greatly impressed with modern things.

There are a couple of programs, something like "How they make that" and "Where do these come from"...the latest one I saw was about neon tube manufacture, beginning with a glass tube that is heated and bent in a U shape and then the entire process that turned out 14 florescent lights each minute.

Completely automated, even the testing step at the age and the packaging.

I am forced to think of the knowledge and skill of the minds that invented, created and designed the machines that did the work, all looked over but not attended by humans. I have seen dozens of those programs, from making Twinkies, to baking bread and making M&M's, some really amazing processes.

Once the machines have been tweaked to function, the product quality assured, they just pop out, identical, one after the other.

Oh, well....just a thought...


Amicus...

No Ami,

You are correct in that there is beauty in both.

I can enjoy the ability it took to create the massp produced items. The ability and ingenuity to create these things economicly.

I can also enjoy the ability and ingenuity needed to create something by hand.

Each type of item is bought for different reasons. Yet both reasons are valid.

As an example I could buy and enjoy the glass icicles for my Christmas Tree. (I have done so.) I could also pay much more for the handmade Glass Icicles for the same tree. (I have done this as well.) There are differences in them and not only in price.

I enjoy the perfection in the mass produced Icicles. They are all the same.

I enjoy the differences in the handmade ones. Each is slightly different from the others.

Cat

 

[dr_mabeuse]

You can get them through Frog Hand Tools, a place in Chicag. Most good hardware stores have brace and bits
\
Also: GARAGE SALES!!!!! I got the coolest stuff from going to a few garage sales from old time carpenters and hendymen. Tools from the 30's they dont make any more, all these one-grip sliding adjustable giant pliers, european brace and bits. full set of Forsterner bits WITH SHARPENER!!!

Definite tool junkie here. Defnite. Actual sexual rush in hardware stores. I can get aroused holding a framing hammer. I'm sick

 

[Stella_Omega]

You can get them through Frog Hand Tools, a place in Chicag. Most good hardware stores have brace and bits
\
Also: GARAGE SALES!!!!! I got the coolest stuff from going to a few garage sales from old time carpenters and hendymen. Tools from the 30's they dont make any more, all these one-grip sliding adjustable giant pliers, european brace and bits. full set of Forsterner bits WITH SHARPENER!!!

Definite tool junkie here. Defnite. Actual sexual rush in hardware stores. I can get aroused holding a framing hammer. I'm sick

Frog tools!

When I first started turning wood, I screwed up on of my chisels-- let it get hot while I was grinding it. I brought it into Frog, to ask how to fix it, and where to get lessons on proper sharpening. The old fuckwad behind the counter had a shitload of attitude. he said that if I couldn't sharpen my tools properly, I shouldn't have them at all. He sold me a (good) set of Arkansas stones, and told me to do it by hand.

Do you know how hard HS steel is?

He also told me to use oil on the blocks, which about destroyed them. Oil, you see, fills the pores of the stone, and gathers the dust in as well-- and then dries to a resin.

I went to the parks and recreations dept and found the class I needed, down in Grant Park. I never went back to Frog.

The old dude is probably deceased, by now...

 

[tickledkitty]

Definite tool junkie here. Defnite. Actual sexual rush in hardware stores. I can get aroused holding a framing hammer. I'm sick

I'd probably get aroused watching you hold the hammer, so I guess that makes me sick too.

 

[matriarch]

It's amazing. I have been looking for some older tools down here in Florida and just can't find them. The people down here just don't have them. Hell most people don't even know what I'm talking about. I sent an E-Mail to my father about them and he'll get them for me.

The tools I'm talking about? A draw Knife. A Bit and Brace. An Offset drill saw. P-38 Can Openers. An offset T-Square. A Plumb Bob.

I'll be getting these when my father comes south.

Most of these aren't made anymore, although the DrawKnife is. (At $100.00 plus each.)

I'll be happy when I get them.

Cat

Brace & Bit

Draw Knives

Offset T-square

Plumb Bob Set

 

[matriarch]

Frog tools!

When I first started turning wood, I screwed up on of my chisels-- let it get hot while I was grinding it. I brought it into Frog, to ask how to fix it, and where to get lessons on proper sharpening. The old fuckwad behind the counter had a shitload of attitude. he said that if I couldn't sharpen my tools properly, I shouldn't have them at all. He sold me a (good) set of Arkansas stones, and told me to do it by hand.

Do you know how hard HS steel is?

He also told me to use oil on the blocks, which about destroyed them. Oil, you see, fills the pores of the stone, and gathers the dust in as well-- and then dries to a resin.

I went to the parks and recreations dept and found the class I needed, down in Grant Park. I never went back to Frog.

The old dude is probably deceased, by now...

I decided I needed to sharpen the blades of my gardening shears, for trimming hedges etc., so went to B&Q (our version of Home Depot). Somewhere in my head I had memories of my day and a whetstone, so that's what I asked for. I was told I needed an Oil Block. I bought one, haven't used it yet, but after reading above, not sure I'm going to.

Edited: because I looked on line and found this...seems a pretty good site, and they have most, if not all, of the tools you're talking about Cat, including a 10" drawknife for $44.

 

[SlickTony]

I remember oil blocks! We had one when I was coming up. It was a piece of some kind of stone, a little bigger than an ice cream sandwich, and you put a little bit of light machine oil on it when you went to use it. My dad sharpened all the carbon-steel knives, including his pocketknife and the kitchen knives with it. After decades of being sharpened this way, some of the kitchen knives acquired a very interesting appearance--you had this big old handle and something resembling a misericorde coming out of it. I wonder what became of that oil black. I got a sharpener that came with my Chinese cleaver, and it works in a similar way, except without the oil.

 

[xssve]

I haunt pawn shops and garage sales for old tools - a bit brace is handy when the battery dies on drill or using overized bits - I have this huge 3" countersink that is great for overboring holes for conduit, etc.

My favorite find is a Stanley caliper made of wood and brass - another is a folding rule, both have a brass slide to extend them for inside measurments, and both are invaluable in cabinet installations.

Not an old tool, but I made a cabinet jack out of a scissor jack, works like a charm.

I also have an old nail puller that is indispensible for certain applications in remodelling, adn it's much nicer than the poorly finished Chinese things you find occasionally.

I may be the only guy I know that habitually carries a little finger plane, it's light, and better than smashing away with the claws of your hammer or trying to whittle with a razor knife. I have a complete collection of planes, and they are handy for field adjustments, doors etc., because of the time involved to fetch the powerplane, arrange cords, etc.

Ditto a small pullsaw, again, it's usually much faster than going to find the WormDrive, pulling cords, etc., if you just have a cut or two to make.

I also own an old pair of wire tying pliers, I have no idea what the make, but they are infinitely better designed than even the Klein's, and have three cutters, one in the middle, and one on either side.

Definite tool junkie here. Definite. Actual sexual rush in hardware stores. I can get aroused holding a framing hammer. I'm sick

One modern variation of an old tool I love is my Titanium hammer, fucking $70, but so much better than dragging a 24 oz hammer around when you use a nail gun 90% of the time but still need a hammer every so often.

Another modern tool that's very handy is a small diamond hone, sure saves time changing blades when you can hone a blade back to razor sharp in about ten seconds.

A little lightweight laser level is another handy thing, particularly for tile, beats chalking lines.

My all purpose tool bag is actually kind of a running joke, I carry a lot of tools, but everything is chosen for lightness and versatility - I spend way less time running back and forth looking for the right tool for specialized applications, I blaze through punch lists.

I have different rigs for different applications, a framing rig, a finish rig, a steel tying rig, tool sets for metal framing, etc., and most feature at least a couple of vintage tools.

 

[xssve]

I'm a tool nut, if it wasn't apparent - here's that Stanley caliper, I've never seen another like it, can't even find it on the internet - along with a modern classic, IMO, the mechanical carpenters pencil - beats fishing for stubs!

http://img162.imagevenue.com/loc849/th_57239_tools01_122_849lo.jpg

My current dream is to own a set of raised panel planes, which make cuts much wider than routers are capable of but cheaper than a shaper set up - I really hate those European MDF cabinets, especially the doors, they just don't hold up - though if I get to making furniture/cabinets full time instead of occasionally, it would be worth it.