Old House Renovation Journal

[mbb308]

In the course of my "business" (I work for myself, and I think of it as a creative way of being unemployed), I renovate old houses. My city is a treasure trove of them, of all sorts of descriptions and types and conditions. Some neighborhoods are more popular than others, and some are starting to catch on. Some houses are bargains, and some have been redone, and are over-priced, and are bought and redone again. Many are somewhere in between.

On Monday, the 16th, I'm starting my latest project. This job is for a local non-profit urban revitalization company, and this will be the third whole-house renovation that I've done for them. This job is my first large negotiated contract project (as opposed to a bid project), and will also be the most challenging to date, as there is ample structural damage.

Part of this project is funded by Federal money as administered by the City for this sort of thing. In the case of this house, it might not be worth it to an investor to renovate it because of the large number of structural issues. The Federal funding makes it a viable project, however.

This will be a journal of the progress of the renovation of this house.

Feel free to chime in with questions or comments, or to ask building or repair questions. I hope that you enjoy following along with this. I am a little apprehensive about this job, but I figure they wouldn't have picked me to do it if they didn't think I could.

My photographer will be taking "before" pictures soon, so I hope to get those posted so that you can see what we face in trying to get thhis house back into habitable condition.

 

[sortacurious]

Hey Mbb,

I look foward to seeing and hearing about the progress! Great thread.

 

[Arden]

Hey mbb...

Is this your personal diary, or are you open to others that have interest in renovation? I've been working on my 125 yr. old house for the past year. Frustrating, challenging, and mind boggling yet very rewarding.

 

[mbb308]

Hey mbb...

Is this your personal diary, or are you open to others that have interest in renovation? I've been working on my 125 yr. old house for the past year. Frustrating, challenging, and mind boggling yet very rewarding.

Well, yes, but I was hoping others would add their experience or ask questions. I refuse the title of "Threadenfuehrer".

See? Now, I didn't know that about you, and I think you hit all of the main feelings that come from this activity, with the possible exception of"expensive". But, then, I am spending someone else's money with mine.

To me, old houses are a state of mind. I am interested in people who like old houses, and more if they have done one, even if they would never do it again. I'd never do anything else.

Diary, story, dialogue, commentary . . . use this as you will. Or just read along and get a flavor of the "psychoes" who are into this sort of thing.

And feel free to bump it along as it suits you....

And, please, post pertinent pictures, especially of things in progress. That's what makes many words unnecessary.

 

[Arden]

Well, yes, but I was hoping others would add their experience or ask questions. I refuse the title of "Threadenfuehrer".

See? Now, I didn't know that about you, and I think you hit all of the main feelings that come from this activity, with the possible exception of"expensive". But, then, I am spending someone else's money with mine.

To me, old houses are a state of mind. I am interested in people who like old houses, and more if they have done one, even if they would never do it again. I'd never do anything else.

Diary, story, dialogue, commentary . . . use this as you will. Or just read along and get a flavor of the "psychoes" who are into this sort of thing.

And feel free to bump it along as it suits you....

And, please, post pertinent pictures, especially of things in progress. That's what makes many words unnecessary.

Thanks mbb... sounds liks a lot of fun. I may do some posts after I get home from work... I snuck out for a few! But I can do that, it's my business.

 

[mbb308]

Thanks mbb... sounds liks a lot of fun. I may do some posts after I get home from work... I snuck out for a few! But I can do that, it's my business.

I can do the same - I'm home early on a Friday afternoon, and f*ing off on Lit. I may even take a nap. The concrete trucks have all gone away, too.

I thought I'd talk a little about my experience, and how I got into this sort of thing, and how I got into business, too. I might add some of what may be required, and maybe talk some about tools and materials and some how-to.

Tell your own tale, too.

Let's have some fun, shall we?

 

[skye in silk]

this is really interesting to me mbb. i have always dreamed of buying an old house and renovating it. now i will always get to see just what goes into the whole process. would love to see plenty of before pics, and maybe some info on why you selected this house and maybe what you should look for when you are looking for a house to renovate. is this too tall of an order? lol like i said i would be interested in seeing the process from beginning to end.

best of luck!

Skye

 

[AME]

My husbands a builder mbb

this is gonna be a treat for me seeing something
get finished...

looking forward to it......smile

 

[Linedrive]

mmb...I'd be curious to the answers of a couple generic questions.

* Which aspect of the rennovation will be the most expensive...?
* Which aspect of the rennovation will take the most time...?
* Will you be using any sub-contractors...?

 

[mbb308]

this is really interesting to me mbb. i have always dreamed of buying an old house and renovating it. now i will always get to see just what goes into the whole process. would love to see plenty of before pics, and maybe some info on why you selected this house and maybe what you should look for when you are looking for a house to renovate. is this too tall of an order? lol like i said i would be interested in seeing the process from beginning to end.

best of luck!

Skye

Well, boffo!!!
You have to have a bit of brain damage to get into this in the first place, and a bit more to stay in it.

Probably the single toughest thing to get over is the dirt. Everything is dirty, and dirt is pervasive. It is on each part, and all of the demolition process is filth-producing. If you can get used to the fact that each work activity will cause you to get dark crescents of old house under your nails, you'll be fine. I think the dirt is one factor that keeps some tradespeople in new work.

Problem solving is the other issue. New construction has its share, but they are usually less complex to solve. If it is a new design of a tract house, problems are usually worked out the first time or two the house is built, and then it's straight-forward from there on out.

One doesn't have that latitude with old houses. One has to solve errors made in the original construction, the things in the old construction which don't meet modern codes, and damage caused by neglect or wear.

That said, almost anything wrong with an old house is solveable. We aren't building a moonshot, we're rebuilding an old structure. Some things require an expert opinion, such as structural issues, but most simply require a little common sense and the desire to tackle the issue.

Seeing and reading about the process "from beginning to end" is the whole concept that lead me to start this in the first place. I can show this, and write about this, and you can interact with me and others along the way.

 

[Batch]

In the course of my "business" (I work for myself, and I think of it as a creative way of being unemployed), I renovate old houses. My city is a treasure trove of them, of all sorts of descriptions and types and conditions. Some neighborhoods are more popular than others, and some are starting to catch on. Some houses are bargains, and some have been redone, and are over-priced, and are bought and redone again. Many are somewhere in between.

On Monday, the 16th, I'm starting my latest project. This job is for a local non-profit urban revitalization company, and this will be the third whole-house renovation that I've done for them. This job is my first large negotiated contract project (as opposed to a bid project), and will also be the most challenging to date, as there is ample structural damage.

Part of this project is funded by Federal money as administered by the City for this sort of thing. In the case of this house, it might not be worth it to an investor to renovate it because of the large number of structural issues. The Federal funding makes it a viable project, however.

This will be a journal of the progress of the renovation of this house.

Feel free to chime in with questions or comments, or to ask building or repair questions. I hope that you enjoy following along with this. I am a little apprehensive about this job, but I figure they wouldn't have picked me to do it if they didn't think I could.

My photographer will be taking "before" pictures soon, so I hope to get those posted so that you can see what we face in trying to get thhis house back into habitable condition.

Nice idea, my father used to have me be his helper when i was achild..oh those were good times...knocking down walls drywalling..
I like this idea for a thread.
will wait patiently for the pictures.

 

[mbb308]

My husbands a builder mbb

this is gonna be a treat for me seeing something
get finished...

looking forward to it......smile

I laughed out loud when reading this!!!!

Finishing a house is a relative concept. We work on it until we get to a place where we can quit, usually 99.9% complete. As the house wears, repairs are needed, and it gets brought back to some condition approaching 100%, but never quite. The balance of its existence will be in flux below 100%, but never quite there.

We'll get it to the point where my customer and its purchaser will be happy, and a little bit more, and that's pretty darned close to right.

Our last effort made the front page of the local paper's Real Estate section on 30 June of this year. The article was about the customer, and not word one was in it about us. Sigh!

 

[mbb308]

mmb...I'd be curious to the answers of a couple generic questions.

* Which aspect of the rennovation will be the most expensive...?
* Which aspect of the rennovation will take the most time...?
* Will you be using any sub-contractors...?

Generally speaking, upgrading the mechanical systems to modern standards is the most expensive. People want modern heat and cooling, more and more modern plumbing, and more lights and electrical outlets. Those three, in the case of this house, which is roughly a $107,000 project, will cost around $19,000. But, in order to market the finished product, these things are required by code and the buyer - the new product in the suburbs is guaranteed to have them.

The carpentry involved will take the most time. As we get into this, there is a great deal of structural work, modern fire code requirements to be met, lead paint abatement considerations (another Federally mandated pain in the ass), and numerous cosmetic and repair issues which will take a lot of time. We, my helper and I, will be handling all these issues ourselves, except for the actual lead paint abatement on retained materials. The customer/owner will handle the lead paint abatement through a local agency with grant money for such work.

We will farm out the plumbing, heating and cooling, and electrical, as well as drywall and concrete finishing work. We do our own woodwork, siding, and painting, and we'll probably do the new roof as well, but we may not, depending on how we do as far as meeting our proposed schedule.

 

[mbb308]

Re: Re: Old House Renovation Journal

Nice idea, my father used to have me be his helper when i was achild..oh those were good times...knocking down walls drywalling..
I like this idea for a thread.
will wait patiently for the pictures.

My son is the best helper I've ever had. He started going to work with the old man when he was around five or so, and he used to help me keep up with tools and supplies, and run to the truck for more goodies.

In time, as he grew and learned, he started getting involved doing the actual work. He learned to operate power tools and how to build things. He became my cut man a couple of years ago, and, to date, he has handed me exactly one board that was the wrong measurement - it was too long and could be shortened to fit, so he has yet to waste any material. Ah, the spacial abilities of the right-brained!

He's 15 now, and his Mom and he have moved 800+ miles away from here. I'll miss him at work (and already do in all the other ways as well). He told me he should get to come up for two weeks at Xmas, and I know we'll have a boatload to do. We'll goof off a couple of days as well.

 

[chromefreak]

MBB

You mentioned that its old...How old? What style of house is it? It's been a long time since I've been south or east of here.

Here's what we have in the way of old houses out here in Northern CA.

Santa Rosa has a lot of small post WWII houses in little pockets off downtown. Some have been nicely kept up over the years, others have been run into the ground since the 40's

D street in Petaluma CA is 15 minutes from me. pretty much the entire street is restored Victorians. Most of them are quite large and sell for MILLIONS. Many movies have been filmed there, Including "Peggy Sue Got Married"

A few blocks from it are smaller victorians, some are somewhat run down, others have been restored nicely.

One the other side of the boulevard, all the Victorians were burned, razed, etc. and are now commercial buildings. Parts of American Graffiti were filmed there.

Ferndale in Humboldt county is near where I went to college. Tons more Victorians, and it was used extensively in the movie "Outbreak" remember Cedar Creek?

I love the character old houses have, and am sure I'll enjoy this thread. I first started paying attention to older houses when I discovered that people who owned them usually owned old cars, too.

 

[mbb308]

MBB

You mentioned that its old...How old? What style of house is it? It's been a long time since I've been south or east of here.

[mega-snippage]

I love the character old houses have, and am sure I'll enjoy this thread. I first started paying attention to older houses when I discovered that people who owned them usually owned old cars, too.

I was planning to write a description of the house and the neighborhood, over the weekend.

My grand-dad got me interested in old houses and cars, and old furniture, firearms, and old whisky, too.

I learned about older women on my own! Hell, I was a young thing then, and all the women were older.

 

[Artemesia]

Can't wait to see your house pics. And hear what you've been doing to the house.

I just bought a house built in 1947 (my town only became a town in 1947 - so I consider this house old). I'm not a carpenter, plumber, electrician or any of that - but I can't wait to get it up to par. Right now it looks like a rent house - the kitchen and bath need updating, it needs new windows and doors, it desperately needs a privacy fence around the backyard, the yard is mess, and I've got dead trees all over the property.

Still, can't wait to really get started - even if I have to hire folks to do some of it....

 

[mbb308]

Can't wait to see your house pics. And hear what you've been doing to the house.

I just bought a house built in 1947 (my town only became a town in 1947 - so I consider this house old). I'm not a carpenter, plumber, electrician or any of that - but I can't wait to get it up to par. Right now it looks like a rent house - the kitchen and bath need updating, it needs new windows and doors, it desperately needs a privacy fence around the backyard, the yard is mess, and I've got dead trees all over the property.

Still, can't wait to really get started - even if I have to hire folks to do some of it....

Old is relative to your point of view and your area.

You might be surprised at what you can learn by asking suppliers, and by reading books on the subject. The only thing that holds most people back is fear, and that it best dealt with simply by facing it down. Once you learn how to do something, you build confidence to learn another something.

In the next few days, we'll discuss the order of events of the activities involved in this house project. There is a suggested sequence of events. This is so one item installed does not get damaged by an out of sequence event, which wastes both money and time.

I'll also write out more details of the scope of the project and explain some terms, and so on.

Feel free to ask any questions, or to point out any errors, or if something isn't clear. Like an old house, I'm a long way from perfect myself.

 

[wildrose70]

I will be following this thread....You know my love for old houses...and will be interested in anyone's pictures...thanks mbb for starting this thread

 

[Batch]

Re: Re: Re: Old House Renovation Journal

My son is the best helper I've ever had. He started going to work with the old man when he was around five or so, and he used to help me keep up with tools and supplies, and run to the truck for more goodies.

In time, as he grew and learned, he started getting involved doing the actual work. He learned to operate power tools and how to build things. He became my cut man a couple of years ago, and, to date, he has handed me exactly one board that was the wrong measurement - it was too long and could be shortened to fit, so he has yet to waste any material. Ah, the spacial abilities of the right-brained!

He's 15 now, and his Mom and he have moved 800+ miles away from here. I'll miss him at work (and already do in all the other ways as well). He told me he should get to come up for two weeks at Xmas, and I know we'll have a boatload to do. We'll goof off a couple of days as well.

Good job........on teaching your son and giving him a solid start. What you have done is given him something priceless...your time and knowledge. Sharing of yourself......that mattters so much to children.

 

[Arden]

Psychotic old house lovers

Ok, mbb. What motivated this person to become a renovation psycho...

From the ages of 5 to 12, I lived in a 1917 farmhouse in Illinois near the Indiana border... Although not a Victorian, it was neat. The town I went to school in was an old Victorian river town. A large majority of houses in the town were of the Victorian style. I fell in love with the idea of PORCHES as living space... wicker chairs, tables, cat on the rug, sitting outside and enjoying the sounds of light rain... the farmhouse I lived in had none of that. I envied my friends living in houses like this. Large rooms, fancy windows, that wonderful musty smell in the air...

After age 12, we moved North to a suburb of Chicago. Right into the ugliest ranch style house I'd ever seen. It was actually a very nice house... but to me the shoebox style was terrible. No character at all.

Life moved on, I lived in many shoebox houses with my family. After I married, we lived in apartments. Long story, but we never even thought of buying a house... it was impossible. To my chagrin, I later found out that I married a "credit bandit" (someone that can't pay attention, let alone bills). I bought my first house 3 years post divorce. New tract home, nice, and I could afford it on my own.

But I still had those Victorian porch dreams. One year ago, on a visit to MI, I looked at some houses here and was amazed what kind of house you could get for the money in a small town. I took home a contract for one, checked on the market value of my house, and had a for sale sign in it the yard within 3 days. We moved here July 2001, one month after I signed the contract on my 'dream' house. Of course, the nightmares started after we moved in... *weg*

My dream/demon house was built 1874. Simple by Victorian standards, no true gingerbread on it anywhere. But, I have three small porches to sit on today. Oh, and some wicker chairs too.

 

[Batch]

Re: Psychotic old house lovers

But I still had those Victorian porch dreams. One year ago, on a visit to MI, I looked at some houses here and was amazed what kind of house you could get for the money in a small town. I took home a contract for one, checked on the market value of my house, and had a for sale sign in it the yard within 3 days. We moved here July 2001, one month after I signed the contract on my 'dream' house. Of course, the nightmares started after we moved in... *weg*

My dream/demon house was built 1874. Simple by Victorian standards, no true gingerbread on it anywhere. But, I have three small porches to sit on today. Oh, and some wicker chairs too.

I am amazed at how almost jealous I feel for your porches..so cool...so lovely so nice.

 

[Arden]

Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers

I am amazed at how almost jealous I feel for your porches..so cool...so lovely so nice.

They are nice, but I have many rotten floorboards to be replaced. When that's done they'll be much better.
*laughing*

Come join me for some iced tea on the porch some time if you ever get up this way.

Actually, the best part of moving here was getting back to the Midwest after 22 years in Dallas. The people of the Midwest are so much friendlier. I missed that.

 

[mbb308]

Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers

They are nice, but I have many rotten floorboards to be replaced. When that's done they'll be much better.
*laughing*

Come join me for some iced tea on the porch some time if you ever get up this way.

Actually, the best part of moving here was getting back to the Midwest after 22 years in Dallas. The people of the Midwest are so much friendlier. I missed that.

Sadly, the new wood for floor boards (assuming that they are the old tongue-and-groove of the period) just isn't as good as the old stuff. Two years ago, I rebuilt an old porch which had been refloored from the original 14 years before. The "new" stuff had already crapped out, whereas the original stuff had lasted about 70 years.

I used fir to replace it. I primed the underside and edges and topside before ever installing it.

The fun part was that I got to rebuild the floor system (the framework underneath) to the standards that I think they should be built. The people went for that, and it was impressive when it was done. It felt like you could have parked a truck on it safely.

I hope it lasts them the duration of their time in that house, and for a while after that.

 

[mbb308]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Old House Renovation Journal

Good job........on teaching your son and giving him a solid start. What you have done is given him something priceless...your time and knowledge. Sharing of yourself......that mattters so much to children.

Thank you. The young man has the knowledge of what a day's work is, and signifies. He understands production techniques, and systems for getting things done. And, as you so accurately noted, he has the makings of having a trade.

He does great in school and is smart as a whip. I've advised him to continue to do well in school, and to go as far as he has to in order to get a profession. Then, if he wants to work on old houses, after he has a job, he can buy one and work on it nights and weekends, treating it as a second job to build some equity.

He heard me - I could hear the gears turning.