Oh this should be fun

[SeaCat]

Soon after my wife and I moved into our trailer we were approached by several of our neighbors. They wanted to create a Home Owners Association. After talking with several lawyers I refused to join, I have seen too many abuses done by these groups.

Well my neighbors created their association, which immediatly voted in a president and started making rules.

Even though I don't belong to the association I followed most of these rules. They make sense.

Today I was informed by one of my neighbors about a couple of new rules passed by the association. When I heard them I just shook my head before calling my lawyer. It should be interesting to see them enforcing them.

Rule 1 is the banning of all motorcycles.

Rule 2 is the banning of all Fire Arms in the park.

Rule 3 is the limiting of all members to one pet, all pets to be under 30 pounds.

Rule 4 is the ability of the Association President to enter any property at his whim to inspect it for violations of the rules and fine the owners according to the regulations.

It shall be interesting to see them enforce these regulations against me as I don't belong to the association.

Cat

 

[DesertPirate]

Post your "No Tresspassing" sign today!
I'd like to see the President try

I believe in most areas they have to grandfather you in and can only inflict their crap on newcomers or people who joined.

 

[only_more_so]

Yeah. I'm pretty sure they have no grounds to do anything. Like the pirate said, between grandfather rules and the fact that you aren't a member, you should be all set.

But I think the sign is too subtle. Maybe something like, "Beware of Dogs: They're packing heat"

 

[rgraham666]

Brother!

Some people just can't mind their own business.

 

[Corylea]

That sounds like a crappy situation; I'm glad you aren't going to take it lying down!

Rule 3 is the limiting of all members to one pet, all pets to be under 30 pounds.

The American Kennel Club says that the three most popular breeds in America are

1) Labrador Retriever
2) Yorkshire Terrier
3) German Shepherd

The Yorkie would qualify, but the Lab and the Shepherd certainly wouldn't, and a rule that disallows the type of dog that is owned by the largest number of households in the country is ill-considered, as best.

Rule 4 is the ability of the Association President to enter any property at his whim to inspect it for violations of the rules and fine the owners according to the regulations.

The Association President has more power than your average cop? Um, no. Not a good rule.

 

[only_more_so]

Brother!

Some people just can't mind their own business.

The motorcycle I can understand, to an extent, because they do generally generate a lot of noise. So in that case someone else's motorcycle is their business.

The size and quantity of animals is rather puzzling. I know plenty of apartments/condos who have rules like that because of the wear and tear a large animal puts on a building. There is some argument about noise, but a 30 lbs dog can make plenty of noise.

The gun rule seems pretty invasive and doesn't make a ton of sense. It isn't like a lot of guns accidently go off and shoot out of one house and into another house. And if the gun goes off intentionally that is a whole different matter.

As for the president doing inspections... That's a load of crap. I've never heard of a homeowner's association that allows that. Condo associations generally have rules about emergency access, sometimes about checking on the rules, but generally only for cause.

 

[incubus666]

Proposed Sign

Trespassers will be shot

Survivors will be shot again

then fed to the Doberman

That puts you in violation of 75% if their stupid rules.

Mike S.

 

[jomar]

You need to test three out of four.

Ride up and down the street on your motorcycle shooting cans off the fence (aimed into an empty field of course). The big ass dog you borrowed from a friend can chase the motorcycle and bark whenever the gun goes off.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Why is it that other people have to stick their damn noses in other peoples business? As if their house is without fault? Dickheads.

In reference to rule 4...let him come in, then shoot his ass. And I do mean in the ass, I'll bet it's the last time he tries to surprise you with an inspection.

At least that's what I'd do. Just try to break in my house again sucker. Dumb ass.

 

[john-the-author]

I can certainly understand wanting to ban shooting firearms in the area, but that's almost certainly a violation of local regulations on discharging firearms, so shouldn't be a problem. And, while no particular fan of guns (even though I grew up with them--Dad's a gunsmith), I am certain that the Homeowner's Association has no authority whatsoever to ban legal ownership of guns of any kind.

Dogs and motorcycles? Yeah, they can probably make reasonable rules about noise that fall under the broad category of "all of us getting along and respecting each other" but these rules have to be reasonable all the way around. Unless a dog is barking all the time or a danger, or you've got tons of bikes coming in and out all the time, you're within your rights to have both. Banning either of them isn't going to fly.

And I would really like to see the head of this group just demanding that he muscle his way into your place. The educational process would be something to see. It really would.

Do please keep us posted.

And from what I've read here, I'd be glad to have you as a next-door neighbor.

 

[jushorny]

Hey SeaCat,

I’m the president of a homeowners association. There are some good reasons for such associations as you have stated. Safety, maintaining property values, and in my instance making sure we have proper funds for maintenance and repair. I too have heard and read horror stories about associations.
Each state has their own set of laws governing homeowner associations. Here are a couple of websites that might interest you. The HOA site has a forum where one can post and reply to questions. The other site is more about managing and laws.

http://www.hoatalk.com/

http://www.communityassociations.net/newsletters/enews_03_14_2006.html

Where I am, we can provide or add guidelines to rules but to actually change or add a rule that can be enforced requires much more, legal terminology, submitting to state, etc.

As far as the rules they are tempting to enforce, well, we do ban commercial vehicles even though it is not enforced. We choose to not jeopardize someone’s livelihood. But, given that we can, I’d guess motorcycles could be banned as well. Here, if we wanted to add that to our rules, we would need a majority vote from homeowners.

As president I do not have the right to enter anyone’s townhome on a whim. The townhouse is private property. That rule is just blatantly illegal.

Firearms? While I’m not in favor of the legality of them I do respect the law. Was it not just ruled by the Supreme Court that cities could not make firearms illegal to own? There are many communities in our area that are in the process of rescinding the firearms laws. Again, I’d view this as illegal.

Sounds to me like you have a group of people who have no regard to the laws and have no idea what they are doing. I’d say file a lawsuit against them. I bet they have no liability insurance either!

 

[bronzeage]

I did my turn in the barrel with a homeowners association, as a board member and president.

In Louisiana, a homeowners group has no authority except as described in the original subdivision restrictions. The restrictions are a contract and every person who buys property in the subdivision agrees to them as part if the sale agreement.

To change or ammend the restrictions requires 100% agreement among all property owner, so changing them is just about impossible. The association can only act as agents of the owners and has no legal power of its own.

Any action it wants to take against a property owner requires a civil suit and and a court judgment.

 

[TE999]

I'd be curious what prompted these new regulations in the first place.

Has anyone complained about your bike, guns or dogs...I mean cats?

Sounds like you have a bunch of cranky fussbudgets running the place.

I'd tell 'em to have aviated intercourse with a rotating pastry and do what you please.

 

[redpaint]

Sounds to me like someone is trying to single you out.

 

[SeaCat]

Well as for the rules and their intentions. As I have been informed by some of my neighbors.

The pets rule was caused because of some of the renters in the back having multiple large dogs and not cleaning up after them.

The Motorcycle rule was caused by myself and others in the park. The others because they have loud bikes and myself because I have stood up to the association president. (He is upset at me for several reasons. The first is I have stopped him from walking across my yard to get to the main road. He seemed to think that this was his right and I didn't agree. The second was I confronted his friend because they cut all of my roses. The third is because I have long hair and don't agree with him that I need to cut it. It seems he doesn't like me being different. The fourth and most important is because I refuse to join the Home Owners Association.)

The Fire Arms rule I have no idea where it came from, although I'm sure I can give it a couple of guesses.

As for their entering my home without invitation, good luck on that. To do so they would have to either force their way in, (Home Invasion) or break a window as I have changed the locks and conveniently forgotten to give them copies of the keys.

They seem to forget that I do not belong to the Home Owners Association even though I do belong to the Park. (Two seperate entities.)

Life should be amusing after this. I have a feeling that it's a good thing I have a lawyer.

Cat

 

[KLCK]

Seeing as they are projecting all of there Association's rules over even non-members, I suggest starting your own association.

First rule: All members of the other homeowners associations wive's must make rounds at all non-members houses for sexual servitude. Daughters over 18 must also serve. Son's must service all women of the community at the women's willing.

Second rule: The porches of the members of the other association are now a communal "defecation ledge".

Third rule: The lawns of the other associations home's may now be used for free range cattle raising, so long as all cattle are over 30 ibs.

Fourth rule: Members of the other association must surrender all rights granted by the bill of rights and shall clean the boots of your members with there tongues.


Good plan?

 

[CWatson]

I'm involved in HOA matters at the location where I own a condo (which was also my former place of employment--former because we ran out of condos to sell), and I've come to the conclusion that HOAs don't really solve anything at all. Sure, the socially-conscious people get together... But all they do is complain about what a mess it is. Meanwhile, the irresponsible people don't come, because they sure don't give a flying fuck if their dogs aren't allowed to shit on the carpet in the hall. Or pee in the pool. Or swim in the pool. Or if they're not allowed to park in someone else's parking space. Or tow someone else's car out of the space that person owns. Or drive into the wall and dent the rebar-reinforced concrete with the front of their Hyundai and nearly damage the boiler on the other side of it. Or keep a goat in their unit? Or... Yeah, the list goes on. There aren't too many of those morons, but they make enough trouble for everyone. And meanwhile, the vast majority of residents are like SeaCat: responsible by themselves, to themselves; smart enough to know how to behave like adults, and having no intention of doing otherwise. They don't come to the HOA meetings, and that's all right because they don't need to; they know it already. But sometimes I wish they would. All us socially-conscious people are starting to feel outnumbered.

(Oh, and, yeah, I own a condo. Freaky in itself. If anyone's ever wondered what it's like to have $10,000 in debt for every birthday you've celebrated, I'll just tell you that it's, uhh, slightly nerve-wracking.)

 

[tbaycouple]

I love that you're discussing this with an actual *lawyer*.

My 2 cents - videocameras, and documentation, documentation, documentation. Notebooks, witnesses, any of their "official" documents you can ever get your hands on, pull out all the stops.

If you ever do want to launch a lawsuit, give it as many possible legs to stand on.

You might end up owning the entire neighborhood

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

This is why I dislike homeowner's association on general principles, because I am strongly individualist and very suspicious of so-called "communitarian" values. Then again, I am also an admirer of Nietzsche, so what do you expect?

 

[DeeZire]

As a person with hearing damage, I can sympathize with the anti-motorcycle sentiment. Every time a loud bike blows by me in traffic, I either have to plug my ears or suffer loud ringing in my ears for the rest of the day.

The obvious solution would be to put a muffler on the bike so it's the same volume as a car. In fact, there could be noise-level restrictions already on the books regulating the volume of a motorcycle, but they're probably not enforced.

I see noise pollution as an infringement on my right to 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' in the context that when I'm pursuing my happiness (quiet) my quiet doesn't impinge on yours, but your happiness (a loud bike) impinges on mine. I think that's why local noise regulations stand up in court. (Not speaking to you directly, but to your friends with the loud bikes, since you allude to the fact that your bike is not offensively loud.)

As to the rest, it just proves the old saying 'absolute power corrupts, absolutely'. Give a bunch of yahoos a gavel, and watch everything turn to shit.

One tactic to consider - start a rumor that if the HOA succeeds with its demands, you're going to sell your trailer to whatever type of undesirable element they absolutely detest. That should make them think twice about getting in your face.

Good luck. Hopefully, you can bill them for your lawyer fees, or at least make them think they're going to have to pay if it comes to that.

(Although in a LIT story, it might be cool to shoot the guy if he came on your property, in real life, it would probably not be worth the glory. Lawyers are not cheap, and you'd definitely be needing one in that scenario. Plus, as a health professional, you know all about the damage bullets can do to the human body. They guy might deserve it, but does his wife deserve to be changing his colostomy bag for the rest of her life?)

 

[oggbashan]

As Chairman of a Residents' Association I spend more time telling my members what they cannot do about the activities of other members or non-members that have annoyed them than actually enforcing any rules.

Our rules are about conduct of our meetings not about behaviour in general.

If we have disputes between neighbours then there is a Neighbour Advice unit we can call on that will try to resolve the dispute by arbitration.

If there is anti-social behaviour then the local Council's Environmental Protection unit can monitor noise, smell or other nuisances and issue enforcement notices if necessary.

Then there are the Community Support Officers, the beat Policeman and the Police service as a whole.

However most of the complainants are unreasonable themselves rather than the people they are complaining about. Some people forget that they were ever children or teenagers. Children like to run around, kick a ball, ride a bicycle... Teenagers like to hang around chatting in a group. Almost all (but NOT all) our local kids are decent, friendly and helpful. The few that aren't are well known to the Police, to me, to the Neighbourhood Watch and other agencies. Even so most of that few grow out of their behaviour after several years.

I spend more time persuading complainants that they are not being tolerant enough than actually attempting to deal with the behaviour complained about.

Just because someone has a different lifestyle from their neighbours doesn't mean that their lifestyle is unacceptable.

Og

 

[SeaCat]

As a person with hearing damage, I can sympathize with the anti-motorcycle sentiment. Every time a loud bike blows by me in traffic, I either have to plug my ears or suffer loud ringing in my ears for the rest of the day.

The obvious solution would be to put a muffler on the bike so it's the same volume as a car. In fact, there could be noise-level restrictions already on the books regulating the volume of a motorcycle, but they're probably not enforced.

I see noise pollution as an infringement on my right to 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' in the context that when I'm pursuing my happiness (quiet) my quiet doesn't impinge on yours, but your happiness (a loud bike) impinges on mine. I think that's why local noise regulations stand up in court. (Not speaking to you directly, but to your friends with the loud bikes, since you allude to the fact that your bike is not offensively loud.)

As to the rest, it just proves the old saying 'absolute power corrupts, absolutely'. Give a bunch of yahoos a gavel, and watch everything turn to shit.

One tactic to consider - start a rumor that if the HOA succeeds with its demands, you're going to sell your trailer to whatever type of undesirable element they absolutely detest. That should make them think twice about getting in your face.

Good luck. Hopefully, you can bill them for your lawyer fees, or at least make them think they're going to have to pay if it comes to that.

(Although in a LIT story, it might be cool to shoot the guy if he came on your property, in real life, it would probably not be worth the glory. Lawyers are not cheap, and you'd definitely be needing one in that scenario. Plus, as a health professional, you know all about the damage bullets can do to the human body. They guy might deserve it, but does his wife deserve to be changing his colostomy bag for the rest of her life?)

DeeZire,

Many communities do have laws pertaining to noise and it's violations. Unfortunately they are rarely if ever enforced. (Sound familiar?) That being said it would be a pain in the ass to enforce these noise laws against motorcycles, you have to catch them first.

On the other hand my bike is as quiet as most cars on the roads right now, and when I get the new pipes on it then it will be even quieter. (Hey I'm the rare biker. I like my bike quiet. I like to be able to talk with my wife when we're riding and I like to hear the bells.)

Most of the people in the Home Owners Association are nice enough. It's just the president is feeling his oats for some reason. I'm sure it will end soon enough one way or another.

Cat

 

[Just-Legal]

However most of the complainants are unreasonable themselves rather than the people they are complaining about. Some people forget that they were ever children or teenagers. Children like to run around, kick a ball, ride a bicycle... Teenagers like to hang around chatting in a group. Almost all (but NOT all) our local kids are decent, friendly and helpful. The few that aren't are well known to the Police, to me, to the Neighbourhood Watch and other agencies. Even so most of that few grow out of their behaviour after several years.

Og

Og, this is one of the reasons you're one of my favourite people. Can I print that as a sticker and hand one to everyone who gives me dirty looks for the way I dress?

 

[SlickTony]

They tried to get up an HOA in my neighborhood when I first moved in. I don't think it ever came to anything; there were too many bloody-minded mavericks for it to get off the ground. I wish you all the best, Sea Cat.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Soon after my wife and I moved into our trailer we were approached by several of our neighbors. They wanted to create a Home Owners Association. After talking with several lawyers I refused to join, I have seen too many abuses done by these groups.

Well my neighbors created their association, which immediatly voted in a president and started making rules.

Even though I don't belong to the association I followed most of these rules. They make sense.

Today I was informed by one of my neighbors about a couple of new rules passed by the association. When I heard them I just shook my head before calling my lawyer. It should be interesting to see them enforcing them.

Rule 1 is the banning of all motorcycles.

Rule 2 is the banning of all Fire Arms in the park.

Rule 3 is the limiting of all members to one pet, all pets to be under 30 pounds.

Rule 4 is the ability of the Association President to enter any property at his whim to inspect it for violations of the rules and fine the owners according to the regulations.

It shall be interesting to see them enforce these regulations against me as I don't belong to the association.

Cat

Just create your own association:

Rule 4: The right to defend the lives of your family and your home, including the right to use deadly force to prevent unlawful invasion of your home.

Rule 3: The right to use deadly force to prevent someone from killing your overweight pet.

Rule 2: The right to live by the laws of the USA, including the right to keep and bear arms.

Rule 1: As an environmental issue, ban the use of all motor vehicles which don't get at least 50 mpg.

Print your rules up and pass out copies to all the residents.