[[offtopic discussion]]

[jsmiam]

Lit started out as a place for Laurel to read the type stories she liked. This was back in the late 90's. The code back then was old and clunky by today's standards. Add in the fact that it was coded by a half dozen different people over a good number of years, most of which are no longer alive, much less around. Now try dragging such a Frankenstein monster into the present.

It ain't something done in a day or a year even. It has to be done in increments or the whole house of cards folds up and goes poof.

A lot of the bitching, as some call it, is because of things that don't work and haven't worked in forever. The brunt of answering newbie question about such things lands solidly in the AH. So that adds the bitch about why doesn't admin do something about it or at least explain it in the FAQ. As for doing something about it see two paragraphs above.

I love spaghetti but not spaghetti code. What we have here is a half dozen flavors of spaghetti in one pile of code. Bone apatite.

True, true. I'll still cut them some slack, vBulletin drives the forum half of things, and as a reasonably robust product (even though Lit uses an older version), it could quite easily be set up to go overboard on ads, so good on them for choosing not to go there. The stories side, certainly there's the technical challenges, plus the need to keep page addresses intact or at least well forwarded to not mess with a good thing regarding google indexing. To be fair (again) though, they can't go forever without at least a little sprucing up.

 

[sr71plt]

Why are complaints about this site so common among the authors? Is it:

a) I've given so much to this site and they could give me more in return,
b) I'd like to give so much more to the site but they have fuckin' rules!
c) I'm not getting the give-back that I know I've earned, because I'm great,
d) I could make this site so much better (but I've never done that before),
e) I just don't have much going on so I want to bitch about the site.

Is there something else I'm missing? You're getting published for free, you have a huge audience, there's little interference from the site and you can't stop bitching.

Really, explain to me why I shouldn't just think of the complainers as a bunch of sleepy three-year olds.

Well, gee, relative newcomer, if you'd like to translate that post into civil language, maybe we could discuss it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Maybe the Mod should do something about this

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1416486

 

[lovecraft68]

Why are complaints about this site so common among the authors? Is it:

a) I've given so much to this site and they could give me more in return,
b) I'd like to give so much more to the site but they have fuckin' rules!
c) I'm not getting the give-back that I know I've earned, because I'm great,
d) I could make this site so much better (but I've never done that before),
e) I just don't have much going on so I want to bitch about the site.

Is there something else I'm missing? You're getting published for free, you have a huge audience, there's little interference from the site and you can't stop bitching.

Really, explain to me why I shouldn't just think of the complainers as a bunch of sleepy three-year olds.

I enjoy pointing out hypocrisy and child like favoritism. It could be a full time job here.

The people who spend all their forum time here in the AH and never tread into the GB have no idea what really is allowed to go on here. If you're one of the favs.

As Pilot points out repeatedly, this site makes money from us, but pretty much treats the regular authors and board posters who do their job for them like crap.

No better example than OGG-who you have to have serious issues to have an issue with-starting a thread to discuss the influential author thread and getting racked over the coals by someone that many long timers here know damn well has more ties to this site than just being an author here and then the thread was closed. Why? because people were pointing out yet another lie told here that the site would chnage something and never did.

In my time here, Pilot, myself and TX Rad are three of the top posters here as far as being mainstays and trying to help people out. But to the site we're all trolls and Rad and I were threatened to be 'punished' for pointing out blatant lies in a thread that was there for all to see.

Don't like listening to complaints use ignore, that's what its for.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Add in the fact that it was coded by a half dozen different people over a good number of years, most of which are no longer alive, much less around. Now try dragging such a Frankenstein monster into the present.

It ain't something done in a day or a year even. It has to be done in increments or the whole house of cards folds up and goes poof.

Which is why you don't do that. You create literotica2.com, an entirely new website with access to the same stories. You only advertise it to people who want to test, and it's all brand new code, so it's shaky at first. But when you get it stable and performant, the day comes when literotica and literotica2 get pointed to the new code, and the old just fades away.

I don't do web development, but I develop a lot of other things, some of them with years of history. There comes a day when you simply look at the last n years of effort, label it "lessons learned", and start over. And behold - there are newer technologies, better approaches...

There's nothing quite as fragile as heavily patched code. Even if the original designers had a clue, the people making change after change didn't.

 

[sr71plt]

Maybe the Mod should do something about this

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1416486

I don't think so, although I think the thread is a bit silly. It's too open ended on what the OP might like to read. It's about reading of mainstream books. What I was pointing to here was asking for suggestions on Literotica for readers here to go to Web sites competing directly with Literotica and reading, specifically, authors who do not post to Literotica. That's direct competition with Literotica and its authors.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think so, although I think the thread is a bit silly. It's too open ended on what the OP might like to read. It's about reading of mainstream books. What I was pointing to here was asking for suggestions on Literotica for readers here to go to Web sites competing directly with Literotica and reading, specifically, authors who do not post to Literotica. That's direct competition with Literotica and its authors.

If you read the opening post of the thread I started, way back when, you'll see I didn't specifically ask for references to authors posting on other sites. I meant authors of erotic books. I didn't use the word "posted"; I referred to authors "not on this site." You took that to mean authors on other sites. That's understandable; I didn't make it clear. But that's not what I meant, and in my follow up post I think I did make that clear, and nearly all the other authors who posted on the thread interpreted my inquiry as I meant it -- to refer to authors of books, not authors on other websites.

So I think there's a certain element of talking past each other here.

In any event, it would be helpful to get clarification of Rule 6 so everyone had a better understanding of how it limits these sorts of discussions, if at all.

 

[sr71plt]

In any event, it would be helpful to get clarification of Rule 6 so everyone had a better understanding of how it limits these sorts of discussions, if at all.

Like so much that's obsolete at this Web site, it would be good for the whole forum guidelines to be overhauled, because the "rules" don't correspond with practice anymore. But I doubt it's going to happen.

 

[OmnislashXX]

Like so much that's obsolete at this Web site, it would be good for the whole forum guidelines to be overhauled, because the "rules" don't correspond with practice anymore. But I doubt it's going to happen.

I've said that before, both with forum guidelines and submission rules. There are written rules, but they can be a pain to find. It's the reason why we get so many of the same questions regarding what is allowed and what isn't.

Edit: Also, I can understand if Literotica doesn't want people leaving them for the competition. if they are for profit, then of course it should protect it's interests. But that also means updating your website, supporting your authors by keeping your rejections professional but not super restrictive and keeping a balance by keeping your readers happy.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But that also means updating your website, supporting your authors by keeping your rejections professional but not super restrictive and keeping a balance by keeping your readers happy.

Setting aside the site updates (slowness or lack thereof), aren't the rejections professional in the sense that they are formulaic, pro-forma questions, possibly even bot driven? The few I've seen have been straightforward and simple to address either by minor text edit or a clarifying note back to the editor.

There's been the recent example of a story being rejected for its alleged political content, the reason being cited as "we've received feedback that readers don't want to see that stuff here" - fair call if that's the site reacting to feedback (we here haven't seen that feedback so we don't know what readers are saying behind the scenes).

I assume Laurel has her own criteria for the balance you mention that we never see - it must be pretty good, because people keep submitting material and people keep on reading it, and Lit appears to be fairly high on lists of successful sites. In terms of a platform for which I pay nothing, it does a job for me which I couldn't easily get elsewhere, so i don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[sr71plt]

Setting aside the site updates (slowness or lack thereof), aren't the rejections professional in the sense that they are formulaic, pro-forma questions, possibly even bot driven? The few I've seen have been straightforward and simple to address either by minor text edit or a clarifying note back to the editor.

No, the rejection format at Literotica is not professional. The publishing world works with "queries" when it deals with submitted copy. A rejection should be based on some sort of evidence that it doesn't meet requirements, and Laurel isn't scanning the submissions enough to point to an actual breach of requirements much of the time. The rejection is worded as a question, but it's a rejection regardless. The professional approach would be to either read into the submission to know it doesn't meet requirements or to query the submission rather than reject it as the start of some sort of respectful dialogue to confirm the story doesn't meet requirements. A lot of the rejections here come from false supposition about what's in the story.

 

[lovecraft68]

Setting aside the site updates (slowness or lack thereof), aren't the rejections professional in the sense that they are formulaic, pro-forma questions, possibly even bot driven? The few I've seen have been straightforward and simple to address either by minor text edit or a clarifying note back to the editor.

There's been the recent example of a story being rejected for its alleged political content, the reason being cited as "we've received feedback that readers don't want to see that stuff here" - fair call if that's the site reacting to feedback (we here haven't seen that feedback so we don't know what readers are saying behind the scenes).

I assume Laurel has her own criteria for the balance you mention that we never see - it must be pretty good, because people keep submitting material and people keep on reading it, and Lit appears to be fairly high on lists of successful sites. In terms of a platform for which I pay nothing, it does a job for me which I couldn't easily get elsewhere, so i don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

The biggest issue with rejections is you're not notified. Unless you check your page all the time or a reader e-mails you with "where is your story' you don't know, so that tosses any 'professional' out the window.

Then it does that Jeopardy like answer in the form of a question "does your story contain" so now you're guessing unless you were trying to get something through on purpose.

Other big issue is the inconsistency. Lost track of how many people come here with "My story was rejected for rape/underage/snuff etc....but look at all these stories with it in there.

That sets off the people who play both sides, you'll get "well, your story had underage, it shouldn't be here" then when that person shows off another rule breaking story its "oh, their site their rules'

You mentioned the politics story and that really disturbs me. The site has rules-gray and very inconsistently enforced, but they have them-that story broke no rule whatsoever and removing it because some people didn't like it?

That' flat out wrong. Were those people forced to read it? Once they started were they forced to continue? They're now going to let some readers opinions dictate what stays up here now? What it was really about was the site is very angry at current politics so ruled on this 'complaint' with nothing but personal opinion and not as in "hmm, does it cross a line on one of the rules' but literally "I don't like that topic either"

I know I can stir the pot and be snarky, but I say with total seriousness that the rejection on that story for that reason is a sad thing because it shows its no longer about freedom of speech or expression here in the stories.

 

[NotWise]

You mentioned the politics story and that really disturbs me. The site has rules-gray and very inconsistently enforced, but they have them-that story broke no rule whatsoever and removing it because some people didn't like it?

That story went live on 4/1.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Like so much that's obsolete at this Web site, it would be good for the whole forum guidelines to be overhauled, because the "rules" don't correspond with practice anymore. But I doubt it's going to happen.

And that's a shame because a site like Wattpad shows what can be done with some intelligent and thoughtful design. Site and content both. And there's more adult content on wattpad these days too. Altho they're having site design issues with that.

 

[NotWise]

And that's a shame because a site like Wattpad shows what can be done with some intelligent and thoughtful design. Site and content both. And there's more adult content on wattpad these days too. Altho they're having site design issues with that.

Lit offered a major upgrade for the user control panel and there was hardly anything but complaints here. Why would they upgrade for the authors ever again?

One or two of the sites that ripped off "Unlikely Angels" has it presented much better (IMO) than it's presented on Lit. I wouldn't mind if Lit changed their presentation, but if even small changes are greeted by the authors with nothing but confused intolerance and an unwillingness to change then there isn't much reason for Laurel and Manu to do anything differently.

 

[sr71plt]

Lit offered a major upgrade for the user control panel and there was hardly anything but complaints here. Why would they upgrade for the authors ever again?

First off, no, there hasn't been a major level of complaints about the format upgrade and the upgrade is still in process. They haven't backed away from it. Being as new as you are, you probably aren't aware that they've been saying for a good seven years that a major upgrade was about to drop. At least now they have sample version up there.

Beyond that, this is apples and oranges. The obsolete and broken parts of the content aren't being addressed in the upgrade. The upgrade is a cosmetic format redo and hasn't addressed the problems with the content at all. Try going and asking Fern a question, or contemplating how long the favoritist list has been on sneak preview, or try to email the Web site admins from any contact button provided for that purpose, or do a date search on the news headlines on the home page, or try to find an author through the "Author Search" button, or try to find a editor in the Volunteer Editor system. For your amusement, go read the forum guidelines and contemplate how much of that is actually done in administering the forums.

And do remember that you brought this up here, I didn't. You have a very short historical understanding of using this Web site.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I guess we're getting what we're paying for, then.

A twenty year old clunker that gets from A to B, has no air-con and an AM radio (or worse, a eight track...), four balding tyres and no spare, shit miles per gallon and the duco's seen better days (better decades). But hey, you can fuel her up, turn the key, and it can chug down the road to pornotopia. In another five years, it'll be vintage and all the collectors will want one. Here in Australia it would be an old Holden Kingswood, or a Ford Falcon.

It could be worse... the site might not be here at all.

As you can see, I'm a glass half full kind of guy; you folk are all glass half empty, seems to me. Be an optimist, even if it means you're a hopeless case!

 

[sr71plt]

As you can see, I'm a glass half full kind of guy; you folk are all glass half empty, seems to me. Be an optimist, even if it means you're a hopeless case!

Do an Internet search on how much this Web site, which you and I feed with product for free (and the pretense of full functionality is being claimed), is worth to Laurel and Manu as a marketable asset. (Do you think you'll receive a check when it's sold as a fully functioning and up-to-date site?)

And, again, I didn't bring this part of the issue up--you did.

 

[ElectricBlue]

And, again, I didn't bring this part of the issue up--you did.

Mate, lighten up. Why do you keep pointing this out, when people state their own opinion or add a comment to the discussion? Of course I brought it up, I wrote the words. Do you have some holy writ on what people can say here, or what? No, you don't.

I don't care what the site is worth (I also don't care about full functionality - I have what I need), all I know is I've paid zero dollars for the indulgence of getting some words in front of several tens of thousands of readers, which I otherwise would never be able to do. In my world, if I pay zero, I have zero expectations. Anything over and above that is a bonus, for me. Maybe I've been managing contracts too long, I don't know, but a pretty safe commercial rule of thumb is, you pay zero, you get zero. At least here on Lit, we get something, which is better than nothing.

I know there's a bunch of folk have some higher expectation of what the site should give in return for their product, I get that; but I don't see them saying, "here you go Laurel, here's a million bucks, go make it work properly."

 

[ElectricBlue]

p.s. don't you have me on "ignore".... I thought not.

 

[sr71plt]

Mate, lighten up. Why do you keep pointing this out, when people state their own opinion or add a comment to the discussion? Of course I brought it up, I wrote the words. Do you have some holy writ on what people can say here, or what? No, you don't.

What part of "you brought this up again" didn't you understand?

But it doesn't matter much. Before morning, and in contradiction of the forum guidelines, this part of the thread will disappear (thus proving one of my points about obsolete Web site elements)--or the thread will be frozen.

 

[sr71plt]

p.s. don't you have me on "ignore".... I thought not.

Isn't that sentence contradictory? No, I don't.

 

[RejectReality]

So, the volunteer editor section hasn't been removed from the control panel?

The "Writers" section that never got off the ground hasn't been removed from the control panel?

Obsolete and broken parts addressed.

Purely cosmetic?

So we don't have access to our favorites numbers now? We don't have access to the list of every single person who has added us? We don't have the ability to follow authors and be alerted when they post a new story?

Not to mention the parts that were changed after the initial rollout due to user input.

Beyond that, this is apples and oranges. The obsolete and broken parts of the content aren't being addressed in the upgrade. The upgrade is a cosmetic format redo and hasn't addressed the problems with the content at all.

 

[sr71plt]

I wondered when you'd show up to throw flak in the air. Are you going to stick with one account name for this thread or leave the impression that you are three or four different posters?

I don't have the foggiest idea how the flak you've thrown up relates to what I've posted--and frankly I don't care.

You guys want me to post on this topic, don't you. You keep goading me to.

 

[RejectReality]

You claimed that the updates are purely cosmetic and address none of the broken/obsolete features. I pointed out several examples demonstrating that statement couldn't be more wrong.

Calling it flak doesn't make it any less true.

I wondered when you'd show up to throw flak in the air. Are you going to stick with one account name for this thread or leave the impression that you are three or four different posters?

I don't have the foggiest idea how the flak you've thrown up relates to what I've posted--and frankly I don't care.

You guys want me to post on this topic, don't you. You keep goading me to.