Objectification/Humiliation

[RonClarkeson]

Good for you Lass

(Dear God Cutie's actually discussing kink from a more than theoretical perspective... )

I bumped a thread earlier in the week about humiliation, but it didn't really fully "fit" the conversation I was hoping it would inspire, so I'm trying a new thread. I don't even know for sure what discussion I'm hoping occurs, but I'm in one of those thinking-research-heavy moods lately... it almost kind of sort of makes up for the current lack of bondagy sorts of things in my life... almost.[babblebabblebabble]

So- humiliation & objectification thoughts, anyone? Hot? Not? Trigger issue? Are there some forms you can snuggle down into an hit that mental (and physical) yummy spot, and some that make you want to throw lightning bolts? Does degradation fit into things anywhere for you?

I honestly don't think I could be in a relationship without it... Jeffrey called it my "blush on command" kink, because it's like I can [blush on command]. I get flustered (embarrassed/lightly humiliated) that easily. I don't know why it clicks, or why I see being humiliated as a manifestation of love, or why it's a zero-to-sixty trigger for me [in a good way].

The only odd thing about it for me, is that certain words work, and certian words, don't. Tell me to "Be a good girl and _______" and it clicks. Tell me to do the same thing with whore/b*tch/slut/c*nt in the mix? I snap right out of submissive headspace, go ice cold, and you better hope you have a good explination for your behaviour. LOL

Have not read the rest of the thread but I am with you all the way.

'Be a good girl and show the audience you cunt.' Works.

'Show the audience your cunt, Bitch.' Does not.

So what is the difference?

In the former you are actually in charge the dominator is in effect daring you to do as you are told or face the consequencies, so you have a choice.

In the second case you are just being told to obey.

The dom cares not if you obey or not.

In the first you get to think about it and may submit to the humiliation. In the second what you think or feel is not even considered.

Can you guess?

I am a switch!

 

[RonClarkeson]

Think on this.

This is an area that we are carefully exploring. The problem for me is that sometimes I absolutely love it, crave it really. It is better than any spanking, or physical torment...but,

sometimes it can go over a line and just cause total mental breakdown and I can't do anything. It's horrible.

The biggest problem is that it's a mindset situation. It all depends on the mindset I have going into the situation. But it is totally unpredictable. The same kind of humiliation that soaked my pussy one time, causes meltdown another.

Unfortunately since my present relationship is a LDR where we only get together every couple of months we haven't explored this enough (enough for me, that is) I would be a little afraid to in a way. I don't want to ruin a entire visit because of a meltdown.

It might also be one of those things for me where the fantasy is 100 times hotter than the reality. I don't know...eventually we will find out.

If your Dom 'CARES' about what you are about to submit to then it works.
If your Dom just wants to show his/her control over you it does not.

I have never told a sub to submit to something that could be humilliating if I was not prepeared to be similarly humilliated. It is in effect a 'Truth or Dare' Game

 

[RonClarkeson]

Ah But!

I'm sort of like you CM, in the aspect that certain words can turn me on and others leave me cold. For example I adore being called his slut, whore, bitch. On the other hand if he called me a fat, or stupid slut/whore/bitch I would be very upset. Certain activities are the same way. If he ordered me to go out without underwear, or a bra I wouldn't have a second thought about obeying. Now if he ordered me to go to a nude beach.. I would probably safeword.

Ok.. after going back and reading what I just wrote. I guess I have to say that humiliation is a hard limit for me. I would only allow what didn't really bother me that much, and that would defeat the purpose. *sighs* Sorry to waste your time cutie..

If he dared you to go to a nude beach with him then...

 

[Homburg]

The little bit I bolded there is the sort of thing that some people don't consider "humiliation play", but I do. Knowing my discomforts well enough to taunt me with them.

That is really what it comes down to. I don't specifically get off on humiliation or degradation, though she does. I enjoy both how turned on she gets (that's a common thread for me. I enjoy things that really wind my subject up, and will take part in activities that I consider meh simply because it sets fire to her sexual soul), and, additionally, I am aroused by taking her out of her comfort zone.

This is a twofold arousal. The first is that the control freak and sadist within me simply enjoys making her uncomfortable. There is something about it that appeals to me. It is one thing to have her accept pain. She is comfortable with pain. It is another to have her accept emotional discomfort. That sort of acceptance is much more difficult for her (and for other submissives I've played with), thus more emblematic of the depth and breadth of her submission to me.

Secondly, it is potentially cathartic. If, for example, she is uncomfortable in social situations, and she is, there is little that I can do to assuage that discomfort usually. However, if she is made to be uncomfortable by me in specific controlled settings, and I then remove those discomforts with consistent behaviours, I set up a pattern by which I can cause her to identify those behaviours on my part as deeply comforting. This allows me to eventually get to the point where I can assuage discomfort that I do not cause. That sort of subtle social conditioning is very exciting to me, especially as it is turned to a positive. It parallels the work I've done to get her to the point where she orgasms on command, at certain touches, etc.

Hmm, sometimes I find the things that arouse me to be pretentious even by my own standards.

 

[nh23]

If he dared you to go to a nude beach with him then...

Lol... like double dog dared me? That changes everything. Just kidding! I don't think it would make a difference. Going to a nude beach period would be way over my comfort level.

 

[FurryFury]

Now see, you just been mixing in the wrong circles girl...I call particular men sluts, usually the ones who enjoy it, but not always....and there are times I lovingly tell F he is a slut and he agrees most times.

Catalina

I use words like slut and bitch for both sexes where applicable and for the cats as well. When I do, I don't mean those words with the full negative definition I'd be thinking of if they were applied to me. Also, a lot depends on how they are said.

*chuckles*

For instance, two of our cats are food sluts.

Most people who drive a little bitches around here too.

 

[RonClarkeson]

One on One

I don't think it's a waste of time...

My thought from reading your post, was to wonder why there is a perception that humiliation can't be subjected to limits like anything else in BDSM? I really enjoy humiliation... but even teasingly call me a b*tch and you'd never know I was submissive. Which, BTW, Jeffrey did in the middle of a very entertaining and enjoyable "scene"... I stopped everything cold, had him untie me, sat down as equals and told him if he ever used that word again, I'd be on the next plane faster than he could say "sorry."

I view humiliation as pretty freaking edgy stuff. Mind games can go wrong so much more quickly than a numb wrist from a rope being too tight; the risk of emotional harm is often simmering just under the surface. It makes perfect sense to me that it not be done lightly, or without taking precautions...

In one on one situations humiliation has limited scope. Have you not already submited why humiliate you further? Well to find out how far you can be pushed!
This has to be done with care and love if it has not been established beforehand. Your heart to heart afterwards shows good sense but perhaphs you should have established boundaries beforehand.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[graceanne]

Ok, to some extent I enjoy objectification in my fantasy life. I sincerely doubt I'd go for it in r/l. I know for sure that slut or stupid would piss me off, like Cutie cause it's not true. I've only ever slept with one man (my husband), I don't qualify as a slut by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm very smart. *shrugs* And stupid is one of my mothers favorite insults - it's a trigger for me, and a good way to have one very VERY pissed off woman. The one and only time K used it was during an argument and I spent that night at my sisters.

I'm not sure about bitch or anything like that. To tell the truth as a teenager I took 'bitch' to be a compliment, it really doesn't bother me to be called a bitch. *shrugs* I don't know if it'd get me hot, though.

 

[RonClarkeson]

Well Almost

I'm glad I could help a little. I guess that if I could sit down with the potential Dom and go over every aspect of what may occur it wouldn't be a hard limit. As long as I could voice to him what would be a bad trigger for me and was assured that he wouldn't go there with me. I don't have much experience with humiliation as my previous Dom wasn't into it, so I guess I didn't realize it was possible to put limits on it like that.

The problem is that Humiliation does not work if it has already been discussed!
Boundaries should be established. Boundaries should be pushed but in such a way that the Sub FEELs before during and after that the coice was his/hers.

 

[RonClarkeson]

Trigger Words

I don't think it's a waste of time...

My thought from reading your post, was to wonder why there is a perception that humiliation can't be subjected to limits like anything else in BDSM? I really enjoy humiliation... but even teasingly call me a b*tch and you'd never know I was submissive. Which, BTW, Jeffrey did in the middle of a very entertaining and enjoyable "scene"... I stopped everything cold, had him untie me, sat down as equals and told him if he ever used that word again, I'd be on the next plane faster than he could say "sorry."

I view humiliation as pretty freaking edgy stuff. Mind games can go wrong so much more quickly than a numb wrist from a rope being too tight; the risk of emotional harm is often simmering just under the surface. It makes perfect sense to me that it not be done lightly, or without taking precautions...

So had you told Jeffery about the words that were LIKELY to trigger a reaction?

 

[nh23]

The problem is that Humiliation does not work if it has already been discussed!
Boundaries should be established. Boundaries should be pushed but in such a way that the Sub FEELs before during and after that the coice was his/hers.

That makes sense to a point.. I really don't have much experience with humiliation at all. When with my previous Dom he told me that he had worked so hard to build up my self esteem that he didn't want to tear it back down. Maybe if we had more time together, we would have got to the point where he felt it was ok to try it.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[RonClarkeson]

Exactly!

I have found it difficult in a totally different way, that being familiarity makes it damn difficult to humiliate me in private with just the two of us. Explanation required? Well things which might degrade or humiliate me if they came from someone else, do not cause a flicker when they come from F simply because (or this is why, I think) he owns me, he knows me inside out as I do him, and very little he could say or do touches that spot easily as I am prepared to accept just about anything from him if it makes him happy. I think for it to work in most situations, he has to involve someone else, even if only in being present. LOL, he has done things with me, even in public which once would have made me wish the earth could swallow me there and then, and yet with him it didn't even make me miss a step. Go figure.

Catalina

Humiliation and Degredation in a one on one situation must always push the boundaries. If the Dom wants to push them then he/she had better be careful and loving not demanding.

In a group situation then the suprise can be a real buzz. Remember playing 'Truth or Dare'?

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[RonClarkeson]

Ah so....

I'm at a place in life where I think just about everything is negotiable. There have to be ways for just about everyone to get their kinks met, even if it takes a bit of creativity. I like humiliation, and would hate to rob myself (or my Lover) of that pleasure, just because a handful of words, or one or two specific scenerios piss me off, ya know? Is there a risk bad stuff I don't even understand might get dredged up? Yeah... but I wouldn't do humiliation with someone I didn't trust to help me deal with it [should that happen].

I know right now there are words that just do not fit in my world. (slut/bitch/whore/etc) The stupid thing is that they don't piss me off/stop things cold because I see them as demeaning; they piss me off/stop things cold because they aren't true. When I'm in a relationship, I don't believe it is my place to refuse sex, because I happen to really like sex... men aren't called sluts for that kind of attitude, so in my head I shouldn't be either. That's where I am *now*... for all I know I could meet a man who loves those words, and we agree to slowly work on my reaction to them, to see if we can work them into humiliation scenes for his pleasure. Make sense?

If you were asked nicely to behave like a slut then would you go COLD?

 

[RonClarkeson]

Are you not comfusing Doination with Humiliation?

Yes, makes perfect sense. I see why it pisses you off because it's not true. For example I don't really like being called "slut" because I'm not. I don't bang every man I come in contact with. But... call me " My slut" and I'm in a puddle on the floor. It's kind of a complicated issue for me. As you said though finding the right person and working it all out could make all the difference.

* I guess saying banging every guy in site wasn't how I was trying to phrase that. It sounded very harsh.. and multiple sex partners does not mean someone is a slut. The word slut means a lot of different negative things to different people. I just meant that I don't see that my high sex drive makes me a slut*

I hope this helps.

To be asked or told to be a slut and bang every guy on site while he watches, is not the same as being a slut and banging every guy on site!

His language is not meant to deasribe you but for those guys on site to show what you will do for him.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Humiliation and Degredation in a one on one situation must always push the boundaries. If the Dom wants to push them then he/she had better be careful and loving not demanding.

In a group situation then the suprise can be a real buzz. Remember playing 'Truth or Dare'?

LOL, no I never played T or D or any games actually....boring I know. F has a knack of being both demanding and loving all at once, and with such subtle flicks between the two it can be a delightful trip to take in his hands.

Catalina

 

[RonClarkeson]

.., but I love you!

I've only had one D/s relationship (thus far) but I had no problem when he referred to me as his bitch, slut, or whore. Perhaps that’s because he used the word “my” before each term; which, I suppose, negated any negative connotations. We had a relationship with a good foundation, before he introduced me to BDSM, so I trusted him in that he held me in high regard, on many different levels. When he did use those terms (while I did feel more vulnerable) I did not associate them with degradation or humiliation.

Objectification is depersonalizing someone, correct? I did not feel less of a person when he used those terms.

Humiliation is a tough call for me, though. If he would have said something such as, “You’re nothing but a bitch (slut, whore)” I don’t think I could have handled that very well, even knowing that he loved and respected me. It’s all in how he used those terms. We did have scenes in which I felt extremely vulnerable and humbled…not sure that is the same as humiliated, which I equate with shame. His actions and words never made me feel shame.

You had a good one there, match negative with posative.

 

[RonClarkeson]

The Humiliation Route

Thank you, Cat... that's something I've wondered about - if it's difficult to feel the humiliation factor with someone from whom you'll accept anything that makes him happy. I'm like that with sex - it pleases him, so of course I'll matter-of-factly (and enjoyably) do whatever/whenever... I wonder if (in the right relationship) that will eventually happen with humiliation/etc, as well...

This is so dificult. It should have fixed boundaries but wont work with them!
The Dom should test those boundaries very carefully as if in a truth or dare game giving the sub an easy way out.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I think a lot of people confuse ridicule with humiliation.

 

[RonClarkeson]

Punishment by another name.

I've said before that humiliation is a hard limit for me.....however little things like going without panties don't worry me that much. I'd be hesitant but I'd do it

He teases me in private, and I will blush (although not as much as I used to, I used to blush at the drop of a hat!). It's done in fun and we laugh together about it.

But do anything that makes me feel bad about myself, and I go to what I call "the bad place". My ex husband was emotionally abusive and eroded my self esteem so badly that it's taken a lot of personal work to get me feeling good about myself.

It still doesn't take much to send me back to where I was during my marriage though. It's happened without Him even realising what had happened until my walls came up...... An off the cuff remark, an angry outburst (not directed at me I must clarify that) when His blood sugar was low and we didn't realise.....I flashed back so quickly I didn't have time to tell myself that I didn't need to feel this way anymore.

Hurtful remarks that are meant to humiliate have no place in a caring sexual relationship.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[RonClarkeson]

Checklist forbiden words will protect you!

That situation was a prime example of things that are so far off the table (with me) that it never occured to me to discuss it. Scat, bestiality, children, dead people, use crass terminology around Monica... these things do not compute. LOL

If we'd known each other longer, and it hadn't been the third day of my visit, I'm sure it would have come up/been negotiated without the full stop. I am a stickler for negotiation, but I treat it as a "getting to know you" process (start broad; refine points as necessary), not a checklist.

But if you establish some lose boundaries beforehand then the fun 'could' should' go on. I would never submit to anyone without first discussing where I would not go. Underage and dead would be high up on the list!

 

[RonClarkeson]

Opps!

As I just posted - no; however, I trusted his character enough to sit down and discuss it like adults, then work together to move forward [which we did].

This is liike going into a BDSM session with-out a safe word.

You actually trust someoone you don't know?

Trust me I wont hurt you while I tear you flesh off with this lovely whip!