Objectification/Humiliation

[BiBunny]

You are nothing without me.

The only reason it's so dark is that it's the truth.

 

[DVS]

**Original post (and others when possible) replaced thanks to those who quoted it[them]... **


(Dear God Cutie's actually discussing kink from a more than theoretical perspective... )

I bumped a thread earlier in the week about humiliation, but it didn't really fully "fit" the conversation I was hoping it would inspire, so I'm trying a new thread. I don't even know for sure what discussion I'm hoping occurs, but I'm in one of those thinking-research-heavy moods lately... it almost kind of sort of makes up for the current lack of bondagy sorts of things in my life... almost.[babblebabblebabble]

So- humiliation & objectification thoughts, anyone? Hot? Not? Trigger issue? Are there some forms you can snuggle down into an hit that mental (and physical) yummy spot, and some that make you want to throw lightning bolts? Does degradation fit into things anywhere for you?

I honestly don't think I could be in a relationship without it... DRD called it my "blush on command" kink, because it's like I can [blush on command]. I get flustered (embarrassed/lightly humiliated) that easily. I don't know why it clicks, or why I see being humiliated as a manifestation of love, or why it's a zero-to-sixty trigger for me [in a good way].

The only odd thing about it for me, is that certain words work, and certian words, don't. Tell me to "Be a good girl and _______" and it clicks. Tell me to do the same thing with whore/b*tch/slut/c*nt in the mix? I snap right out of submissive headspace, go ice cold, and you better hope you have a good explination for your behaviour. LOL

Be a good girl and come to my house. Then, be a good girl and do exactly as I say. And if you're really good, I've got some interesting books I might let you see. But, you'll have to be very good. I'll be waiting for the door bell to ring.

Sorry, just had to try it. It would be so special if you actually did show up, I hope you know that. I don't think I could compose myself, if I found you at my door. Wait! What am I saying? I'm the humiliation king. I'll make you blush from the top of your head to the tips of your toes, and you'll feel it tingle is it goes down your spine. And yes, you will also feel it um...there, too.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I've been reading this whole thread with great interest, and there are some stunning points in here. Here's my question, though.

I've seen a great deal of discussion about the concept of humiliation, and just a few references to what I'd consider objectification (being used as a footstool, servicing someone while they're engaged in other activities, and suchlike.)

Admittedly, even those activities could be classified as 'humiliating' depending on the tastes of those involved. But my interest has always been in something closer to the objectification end of the scale. I hesitate to call it 'pure' objectification, since that term is kinda loaded, but it doesn't have a lot of shame or demeaning messages as such.

Examples of what I'm talking about might be things like referring to someone in the third person or as "it", as in, "oh, it makes a really interesting noise when I do that. I wonder if I can get it to make that noise again?"

I think it's more attitude than activity, maybe. To tell someone to simply stand there naked so you can look at them for a while, to move outside the normal and personal dynamic of a relationship and simply turn someone into a machine that does things, that kind of idea.

I've met, for example, a couple of people who have a fantasy of being some kind of "demo model" - here is a typical male, up on a table. Let me show the audience what it does when this stimulus is provided. I heard one fantasy that was a medical version of that: someone being used as a model for a room full of medical students. That sort of thing.

So. Is it all humiliation, and is objectification a subset of that, or do you see them as two ends of a scale, or two entirely different activities, or what? What's everyone's take on the two ideas?

 

[rida]

*snip*
So. Is it all humiliation, and is objectification a subset of that, or do you see them as two ends of a scale, or two entirely different activities, or what? What's everyone's take on the two ideas?

As someone that has just started dipping her toes into Topping males, I've realized that I view my bottoms mostly as toys, objects to play with. Exactly with the attitude of "let's see what happens doing this ... or that" or asking them to do something so that I can "observe" and "measure" the reactions.

In that sense, as they are ultimately there for my entertainment, I objectify them. If what I do or make them do humiliate them and they like it, good for them.

So for me as a PYL, objectification is what I do. Humiliation is what they might or might not feel. But it is not my scope. (I'm pretty sure that asking a grown man to wear frilly panties, sanitary napkins and cum in them and keep wearing them might rates as humiliation thought, but to me the value is still in the entertainment I get, and I would enjoy it even if they did not feel humiliated. If it makes sense. )

As an aside, as a pyl, being objectified does not humiliate me. (Now being made to sing in front of people ... THAT would )

 

[BiBunny]

I've met, for example, a couple of people who have a fantasy of being some kind of "demo model" - here is a typical male, up on a table. Let me show the audience what it does when this stimulus is provided. I heard one fantasy that was a medical version of that: someone being used as a model for a room full of medical students. That sort of thing.

I'm one of those people.

 

[shamegirl]

It's my biggest turn on. Not much of a clue why.
I suspect it's to do with a need for approval? I like to be considered " a good girl" and I am all/most of the time. I brush my teeth keep my house neat , say please and thank you....you get the idea. So I am approved of by all the people that matter to me. But when my master has me degrade myself I'm not getting approval, he is disgusted. I guess it's a safe way to explore my dark side to fall from grace without getting to mucky.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I'm one of those people.

heh. I'm not unfamiliar with the idea myself. That's part of what interests me; the idea of being nameless, or without an identity, just a Thing that has a particular use.

- snip-
In that sense, as they are ultimately there for my entertainment, I objectify them. If what I do or make them do humiliate them and they like it, good for them.

So for me as a PYL, objectification is what I do. Humiliation is what they might or might not feel.

-snip-

That's really well put. I guess that's kind of where I stand with what I do. I don't set out specifically to humiliate anyone, just to make them into a toy. If they find that humiliating and get off on that, cool.

It's my biggest turn on. Not much of a clue why.
I suspect it's to do with a need for approval? I like to be considered " a good girl" and I am all/most of the time. I brush my teeth keep my house neat , say please and thank you....you get the idea. So I am approved of by all the people that matter to me. But when my master has me degrade myself I'm not getting approval, he is disgusted. I guess it's a safe way to explore my dark side to fall from grace without getting to mucky.

It does seem like for a lot of people there's a sort of exorcism in humiliation. As if one might want the framework of the "scene" around it, to formalize it, and get it dealt with inside that context so that one can be less frightened of it. I don't know if I'm reading that right or not. Correct me if I have the wrong idea there...

 

[Blase]

It does seem like for a lot of people there's a sort of exorcism in humiliation. As if one might want the framework of the "scene" around it, to formalize it, and get it dealt with inside that context so that one can be less frightened of it. I don't know if I'm reading that right or not. Correct me if I have the wrong idea there...

Makes sense to me, although it doesn't seem so different from using D/s to provide a "safe context" to deal with desires to be subservient or to feel pain.

 

[subsarah1989]

Makes sense to me, although it doesn't seem so different from using D/s to provide a "safe context" to deal with desires to be subservient or to feel pain.

interesting comment..."safe context"....also trust that certain lines would not be crossed during the exploration

 

[shamegirl]

It does seem like for a lot of people there's a sort of exorcism in humiliation. As if one might want the framework of the "scene" around it, to formalize it, and get it dealt with inside that context so that one can be less frightened of it. I don't know if I'm reading that right or not. Correct me if I have the wrong idea there...

No I'd say that pretty much sums it up. The mind blowing orgasms are also a plus

 

[eastern sun]

As a culture we're so hung up on good self esteem that we're really scared to challenge that idea at all whatsoever, and any tension around that idea is automatically assumed to be unhealthy.

Unless you put it in a religious context or something, then people are all happy that you're in touch with the "I'm insignificant" notion - so what, why should that be the only acceptable context to get in touch with that idea?

It's very freeing to feel insignificant. Some people go to yellowstone or get a telescope, some people go talking to God and stuff.

I hadn't read through this thread before, and I love this post. You are brilliant.

 

[eastern sun]

A couple random thoughts along these lines . . .

The first sexual fantasy that I can remember involved me posted naked on the bulletin board in the schoolyard, where anyone who wanted to could touch me. I was six.

Objectification for me has these basic elements - 1. I am will-less, inert flesh, taking up space, holding my form and responsive to external physical forces, or 2. I am some iconic social mask, playing out a role with no reference to the actual complexity of my person. In both cases, if it wasn't me, it could be someone else, and that would be just fine.

Humiliation for me always has to violate some limit, or it isn't humiliating. It has to cross some agreed-upon boundary in order to shatter the propped-up image that I'm trying to present in the world. Especially in an area where I think I'm getting away with it, but know that I'm vulnerable.

If I'm not of a mind to receive it, I'll defend myself in order to maintain that cover.

But if I let it happen, I've discovered that kind of exposure takes my breath away.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Humiliation for me always has to violate some limit, or it isn't humiliating. It has to cross some agreed-upon boundary in order to shatter the propped-up image that I'm trying to present in the world. Especially in an area where I think I'm getting away with it, but know that I'm vulnerable.

If I'm not of a mind to receive it, I'll defend myself in order to maintain that cover.

but what if there are no personal limits? what if you have no public face to speak of? do you believe it would still be impossible to experience humiliation?

 

[eastern sun]

but what if there are no personal limits? what if you have no public face to speak of? do you believe it would still be impossible to experience humiliation?

Even in my own mind, I have a public face and a private one. As well as a number of limits that define who I am (as opposed to you, for instance).

So I can, and do, humiliate myself frequently! Without anyone else even being present. Just seeing myself for who I really am in contrast with those images can be humiliating.

Add him, and it goes places I can't predict or deny.

How do you experience humiliation?

 

[seela]

Bump.

 

[minx1]

thanks for bumping this Seela, Its a really useful discussion

 

[seela]

I love it when he is putting together a furniture or fixing something, calls me over and simpy wants me to hold his tools. He gives them to me without saying anything, then takes them from me without saying anything until he gives them for me to hold again. Often he then starts to use my mouth and sometimes other rather moist orifices to hold things and at that point I'm well on my way to a happy place.

My need and want to be objectified is a lot easier for me to handle and understand than my need and want to be humiliated. This thread has given me a lot to chew on, I'll probably be back again.

 

[Kikori]

Be a good girl and come to my house. Then, be a good girl and do exactly as I say. And if you're really good, I've got some interesting books I might let you see. But, you'll have to be very good. I'll be waiting for the door bell to ring.

Sorry, just had to try it. It would be so special if you actually did show up, I hope you know that. I don't think I could compose myself, if I found you at my door. Wait! What am I saying? I'm the humiliation king. I'll make you blush from the top of your head to the tips of your toes, and you'll feel it tingle is it goes down your spine. And yes, you will also feel it um...there, too.

Now that this has been bumped, I'm curious if CutieMouse ever had a reply to this. XD

 

[Stella_Omega]

I love it when he is putting together a furniture or fixing something, calls me over and simpy wants me to hold his tools. He gives them to me without saying anything, then takes them from me without saying anything until he gives them for me to hold again. Often he then starts to use my mouth and sometimes other rather moist orifices to hold things and at that point I'm well on my way to a happy place.

My need and want to be objectified is a lot easier for me to handle and understand than my need and want to be humiliated. This thread has given me a lot to chew on, I'll probably be back again.

Hmmm... I'm imagining pussy-scented screwdriver handles now.

 

[seela]

Hmmm... I'm imagining pussy-scented screwdriver handles now.

Maybe they could make screwdrivers with a handle that's coated with the scratchable stuff that you sometimes get perfume samples with. Only the scent would be less floral.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Maybe they could make screwdrivers with a handle that's coated with the scratchable stuff that you sometimes get perfume samples with. Only the scent would be less floral.

Or, I could just use a pussy as a screwdriver caddy. Of course she'd have to be tied up in a nice compact little bundle on the floor next to my workbench.

 

[ninser]

Objectificationa and Humiliation seem to be my main trigger, but as some people said say the wrong thing and my switch goes straight off.

 

[CutieMouse]

Aaaaand a bump [by request].

Re-reading this old humiliation thread in light of last nights activities was interesting.

Cat mentioned early on that familiarity makes humiliation more difficult... Except that I'm finding familiarity makes it far easier.

I mentioned in the slut/whore thread the other day that there's one person who's ever gotten away with calling me whore; that from him it's like a very disturbing endearment.

The longer we've known each other, the more comfortable I am with him...
The edgier the humiliation gets.
The riskier the humiliation gets.
The more... comforting the humiliation gets.

In a way, it's sick. I mean how insane is it that after an incredibly challenging day (long story), the thing that helped me let go, curl up, and sleep like a baby was a few hours of humiliation, degradation, pain, embarrassment, begging, and a crossing of limits most people still classify as totally unacceptable?

I woke up this morning, sore; smiling. Briefly wondering what the hell was wrong with me to equate last night with love, care, concern, connection. Why do I ask for that [humiliation/etc], especially after days like yesterday? Because I did ask for it. He even wanted clarification - physical or verbal?

And I asked for it.

The odds are actually quite good that I'll continue to ask for it.

I do wonder if I did that ethically... happily diving down that rabbit hole, after an exhausting day, without exactly explaining to him what had led up to the exhaustion.

 

[niv78]

I've never looked at it as humiliation, but there are things that I do with my sub that could be considered that. I call her my little slut, my good girl and my good little cum slut quite often, it is always said with an endearing voice and usually the word 'my' is in front of it. Other times I will ask her what she is and she'll tell me that she's my little slut, which makes me smile which then in turn makes her happy. When we first started our D/s relationship she never thought she would be able to handle those types of things, but now it something she loves and want's and would tell anyone who asked who's slut she is.

Recently I have started experiementing with a few other things, today for example she went to Vegas for a conference, well she had never flown before and was nervous about a few different things and so I told her that I wanted her to wear a dress with no panties today. It got her thinking about that and she forgot about the plane issues. I also started talking to her about letting her friends know about what kind of lifestlye she is in, this of course is not something I would enforce since it can create chaos among friends but you get an idea of what i'm talking about.

 

[Soumis]

Lord have mercy, this is a long fantastic thread.

I wish I could articulate my sentiments on the matter a little better, but the best I can come up with is that I like objectification, and I'm okay with the resulting humiliation, but verbal humiliation is frequently a turn off for me. I can think of exceptions to all of the above scenarios, which is why I'm having difficulty putting it into straight and narrow terms, but generally speaking those are my lines.