Obedience does not a Sub make

[the_pet]

i was told that i was guilty of not completely surrendering myself.....that while i was quite obedient.....just how much of it is under "silent protest"
my truth is that i do occasionally obey but not agree/like it (decisions, opinions, plans)

does that mean i'm not really submissive....a pretender because i bend the rules to suit me.....because i don't completely, with every fiber of my being, completely surrender without ANY question, ever......

does this mean i don't know what i'm doing or i don't know what it really means to be sub.....


pet

 

[graceanne]

Ok. This makes little sense to me. I can't find the words to put what irks me about it. Hm.

Ok, so if you have to like what you're doing what are you going to do if you find a dominant who enjoys watching a sub do sometihng they don't wanna do, just for them?

It sounds to me like your dominant is looking for things to bitch about. S/he's probably the type who will never be happy, and will start making things up if you were to become 'perfect'.

 

[FungiUg]

A label is what you make of it. You are what you are: enjoy!

 

[the_pet]

Ok. This makes little sense to me. I can't find the words to put what irks me about it. Hm.

i'm having a hard time myself "expressing" this....and it makes my head hurt thinking about it so i can understand how you can't find the words.

pet

 

[the_pet]

he says he knows he has my obedience but not my trust.....

do all subs blindly trust....is that a prerequisite?



(please forgive my ignorance, i know i must sound like a dumbass)

 

[the_pet]

A label is what you make of it. You are what you are: enjoy!

thank you

 

[nowgirl]

....nervously weighing in................

isn't submission sometimes described as obeying or submitting when you don't necessarily want to? but you do it because you trust Him - even while you're not agreeing (but surely keeping that to yourself... ) - you submit to Him?

the times i'm called out are the times i don't do what He asks... not the times i question why or bring up issues. and usually it's the little stuff that gets me in the most trouble - as in a gentle reminder to call a family member... did i do it? no - i got busy & forgot... this wasn't optional... He told me to do it... i didn't see it as important & disobeyed. i didn't see it that way. He did. there were consequences - which reinforced that this is the kind of relationship we have.

in any event - you mention occassionally obeying... which seems to be the key. obedience is submission. not once in a while obedience. certainly, complete obedience is the thing i struggle with most. it's the thing He wants the most. but it's the "getting there" that makes our relationship stronger - the discussion about issues or concerns i have.

so - no - don't blindly trust Him... give Him the benefit of the doubt that He wants what's best for you & for Him. and - if you're feeling uncertain - talk to Him about what's bugging you. trust Him with open eyes and an open heart.

 

[graceanne]

he says he knows he has my obedience but not my trust.....

do all subs blindly trust....is that a prerequisite?



(please forgive my ignorance, i know i must sound like a dumbass)

First you don't sound like a dumbass.

Second, I do not blindly trust. I can't speak for other subs. K and I were together, 7? years before I even told him about my submissive fantasys. But that's me, not you. I wish their were black and white rules about these things, it'd make life a lot easier, but their isn't.

 

[the_pet]

occassionally[/I] obeying... which seems to be the key.

sorry i wasn't more clear...i said i "occasionally obey" but don't agree, etc. etc. ......as in "i obey ALL the time" without issue but there are times that i "occasionally obey" but don't like it/agree

not that i occasionally obey in general when i feel like it


i hope that makes sense

 

[EmpressFi]

I would think that would make the submission all that much sweeter. Trust is earned, not instantaneous. Doing something because you want to is no sacrifice at all..but doing something because it is something someone wants you to do and you're doing it to please them.. make it all that much sweeter

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[graceanne]

Earning trust, is a never ending process. It's a journey. It isn't as if someone can flip a switch and say "Oh George? I decided I didn't trust you with my life yesterday, but I had a good night's sleep, and some very yummy chocolate chip pancakes for breakfast this morning, so I think I shall now. Just wanted you to know..."

That is just the best analagy.

 

[the_pet]

trust Him with open eyes and an open heart.

sound advice

 

[the_pet]

I would think that would make the submission all that much sweeter. Trust is earned, not instantaneous. Doing something because you want to is no sacrifice at all..but doing something because it is something someone wants you to do and you're doing it to please them.. make it all that much sweeter

....can you tell him that

 

[nowgirl]

sorry i wasn't more clear...i said i "occasionally obey" but don't agree, etc. etc. ......as in "i obey ALL the time" without issue but there are times that i "occasionally obey" but don't like it/agree

not that i occasionally obey in general when i feel like it


i hope that makes sense

yes - thanks. and i hear EXACTLY what you're saying!!

 

[the_pet]

That is just the best analagy.

i agree

except is my case he wants French Toast Sticks

 

[EmpressFi]

....can you tell him that

sure I'll tell him

 

[graceanne]

i agree

except is my case he wants French Toast Sticks

You poor thing. *hugs* If you need to talk about the french toast issue, PM me. *pats hand*

 

[the_pet]

it made me feel self-conscious though.....i thought i was doing a great job, then to hear he's not satisfied (or unhappy about )......it's making me feel like i'm not sure how to act now....

 

[Jaydoes]

another opinion....

I'm with whoever it was that said he's making something out of nothing. No two people agree on everything all the time and its no different just because you are in a bdsm relationship. Sub or not, you have the right to feel how you feel and for him to tell you that you shouldn't feel that way causes greater trust issues and does nothing to make you feel more secure in obeying him.
In my opinion, when a sub does something that she clearly doesn't want to do or doesn't feel like doing, because she wishes to please or to honor her commitments to the relationship, that's like a gift given to you by the sub, letting you know that she has enough commitment to the relationship to indulge you even though she'd rather not. Criticizing that, for any reason, seem's petty and thoughtless.

 

[dolf]

so...he's sulking because you can't be wildly enthusiastic about the things you don't like?
because he'd rather you loved everything he loves?

and blindly trust?

i am not a submissive either.

 

[RJMasters]

Obedience even when you do not necessarily agree or like what is being asked of you is one of the best/coolest/attractive/hawtess forms of submission there is IMO.

There are many expressions of one's submission. Not meaning to be rude, but perhpas your PYL could take a second look at his own self in regards to this and look at it as a growing experience for him. Expand his tastes a bit or dare I say, be a little more realistic.

I understand that there is nothing better than to have a submissive who has that "want to" attitude accompanying whatever action they might do. I get that its cool to want, sense and feel that inward surrendure that goes along with the outward surrendure, but life is not always that black and white or simple.

I think it speaks to the maturity of a dominant who can learn to accept and be satisfied with different expression of submission for their pyl. Not that the dominant must always compromise or adjust, but there is a two way street aspect in all relationships. To chide a submissive or even question the validity of their submission because they do not like something, even though they do obey to me sounds very shallow and almost goes to that la-la-land of I am a dominant and have god-like powers and if I can't control your like and dislikes then the fault lies with you, not me.

My view on this is simple. There are things that I like or want. Not all of them will be liked or desired by the one I am with however I do hold to a simple view of devotion or duty when it comes to the expression of submission. Your feelings and attitudes are your own and I leave it up to the person to choose what is truly motivating their submission. It is great when that submission comes from a place of devotion to me, but it is also great when one submits out of a sense of duty and loyalty. Either or is perfectly acceptable and each has a flavor which can be satisfying and fully enjoyed. Most often there clearly a mixture of both devotion and duty involved and that works too.

The satisfaction that comes from the mastering of the human spirit is not about controlling a person's spirit, but rather being the source which inspires and emboldens another to express by devotion/passion or duty/loyalty(or a mixture of all) thier submissiveness.

A submissive who obeys begrudingly can certainly leave a sour aftertaste. I may not have the ability to dictate if you like or dislike doing something, but I do not have to hear over and over again how much you dislike it either. Keeping my expextations realistic is my responsibility and sometimes that means accepting the simple truth that she just doesn't like "it". It doesn't mean that I still can't require it because I do like it and want it, but it does require that I adjust my expectations and realize that such a request is for me, myself and I. To entertain thoughts that somehow the other person is somehow going to magically enjoy it just because she is doinng it for me is in my opinion playing in the street of self deception and will only lead to disappointment for both because of unrealistic expectations.

As long as you are obeying, even if you do not like especially what it is you are doing, then IMO you are making a choice to submit which is harder than submitting to something you do enjoy doing. This shouldn't raise questions of the validity of your submissiveness as much as it should prove its genuiness. As long as you are not constantly whining and complaining and throwing it back at him all the time caling constant attention to your noble self sacrifice, because that gets old really quick.

YMMV

And just wanted to add, I hope the two of you can work through this together and wish you the best as you try to do so. Good luck.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

he says he knows he has my obedience but not my trust.....

do all subs blindly trust....is that a prerequisite?



(please forgive my ignorance, i know i must sound like a dumbass)

I dunno trust blindly either, actualy i find it very hard to turst someone. Even to people i really love, like my man and my master, its hard to explain, but i know how you feel {{{{{{{{HUG'S}}}}}}}}

My master helping me alot with this. He knows i am insecure and struggle with trust alot, but he have some holy patience for me on this matter. I hope your master will have the same patience with you


Kate

 

[the captians wench]

This is what I've always considered the difference between subs and slaves, the blind trust factor.

When I was in a M/s relationship, I was expected to do as told, love it, agree with it, and trust him completely. When I started questioning some of the things he told me to do, say, think, and feel, and I realized that I no longer felt like I could talk to him about these things, that's when I took a deeper look into our dealings and realized he wasn't good for me. Blind trust can be a dangerous thing.

And personally, I have found that those who do know I have the right to say no to something, but won't. Or know that I have issues with something but I do it anyway, they have been the most greatful of these tasks. And that feeds into my need to feel like I've pleased him.

In the first situation, I always felt like I fell short, and that would eat at me. In the second, I always feel fulfilled, and the relationships last longer.

This comment of his would make me stop and re-evaluate our situation, if I were in your shoes.

 

[catalina_francisco]

It is difficult to assess what his purpose and meaning may be in what he has told you, but that is analytical me at work with a few similar experiences to reflect on. There was a time when F thought it would be best for me to obey and appear happy, even overjoyed, regardless of how I felt about that particular activity. Time has moved forward, we have been through many ups and downs, and I explained my feelings in regard to that as being dishonest. I didn't feel it important for him to know I didn't like doing it, especially didn't expect him to drop it out of our life as he mistakenly thought I might be getting at, but I like to be authentic in my life so though I do not make a big thing out of it or disobey, there are certain things, or times when things are not exactly awe inspiring for me and he usually knows it by instinct now. That does not mean he doesn't order it and these days might mean he is more likely to order it as he finds it ego boosting and hot to know I do not enjoy something but do it anyway.

Blind trust is wonderful if you can find it. While I trust F with my life, I am also aware he is human and sometimes can stuff up due to not knowing something etc., and so we deal with that through communication. Sometimes it is a good thing I speak about what concerns me, sometimes he has already thought of it and still wants to go ahead at which point I obey and try to trust his judgement...and often he has been steps ahead of me anyway, but not always. Even blind trust cannot make you like an activity you don't like though...feelings and tastes are individual and cannot be ordered by another as much as some would like to. F happily reminds me these days I do not have to like what he does/wants, nor does it have to be fair, but obedience to the best of my ability is a must.

Could it be your PYL in some way thought this would help you to stretch further? I say it as some PYL's will use such methods of asking the seemingly impossible to push the submissive further. It is OK for those it works for but can as you have found, also undermine your own confidence in what you do and how, and introduce a lot of confusion and hurt feelings. My best advice would be to talk to him about it, explain how it makes you feel and why, and ask him if he can provide you with a clearer picture of what he really means and if he has ideas at how you can both work toward his goals.

Catalina