Obama Confirms Free Healthcare For Mexicans.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx
IN THIS MSNBC ARTICLE OBAMA CONFIRMS THAT TAXPAYERS WILL COMPENSATE HOSPITALS THAT TREAT MEXICANS. FREE HEALTHCARE ON YOUR DIME.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

In other words Obama LIED! Why is this such a big surprise to anyone?

 

[Liar]

BO: "There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."


THE REFORMS are the way health care coverage will DIFFER between now and when the Obama plan is in full effect, right?


So let's see, from the artivle JBJ linked:

* Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.

Nothing here that benefits illegal aliens.

* Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.

No change here for illegal aliens. There's a product that they could buy before that they can still buy now. That the government is imposing regulations on how that producs is allowed to look and work, is a separate issue. But ok, a VERY contrived and roundabout argument could be made that this is somehow a way "illegals gain from the reforms".

* Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.

Worse for the illegal aliens than now. A large part of the insurance market will be shut off to them. Unless they use fake papers, but that's an irrelevant and stupid argument. Anyone can fraud themselves to benifits using counterfeit.

* There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.

No difference for the illegal aliens, who can still get emergency care just like before. Only difference is that the hospitals that are FORCED to treat them anyway, are not suffering financially for it. So the compesation thing makes no difference for the illegal aliens.



So, verdict: One side effect that might be positive for illegal aliens (that all insurances are forced to improve their conduct towards the customers). but not one single direct improvement.

The rest of the points are either irrelevant for the illegal alien (but relevant for the hospitals forced to treat them now) or a greater disadvantage for them.


God, I love to know how to read. You should try it sometime.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIAR thinks free care at the ER isnt ObamaCare. Obama must have a money tree somewhere, huh? Funny how it works, Americans cant get free ER care without a collection agency up their ass. But the wetbacks get it free.

 

[Liar]

JBJ thinks Obama has a time machine. How else could policy in effect now be ObamaCare?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIAR only in your tired brain is taxpayer money not taxpayer money.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

In a camp just on the US side of the Rio G a young mother of three has terrible abdominal pains symptomatic of acute appendicitis.

It doesn't need House or George Clooney to save her and give the family a serious break. A semi-competent young US surgeon could save her life and save her family. Who pays? We do.

However you cut the cake, healthcare must be universal and look after those in need irrespective of their financial state.

Keeping people alive is a part of the Hippocratic oath, though many drug and insurance companies seem to have forgotten it.

Obama is going in the wrong direction. He should reform what currently exists. Not as sexy.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The hospitals along the Mexican Border in west Texas are hurting, some even closing down. Why? Mexicans crossing the border to receive free health care. If you can believe Obama's newest talking points. These hospitals will be reimbursed fromt he public coffers for treating the illegals.

So under the Obama plan, you go to your local ER with a heart attack or storke, unable to speak or communicate and are turned away because you forgot to bring your Social Security card, Naturalization Papers or Birth Certificate to show citizenship? This is just about as workable as the rest of the Obama plan.

Mexico does provide free health care under the IMSS system run by the Department of Health. It is mostly restricted to preventitive medicine. Personally, I don't see Mexico's health care problems as ours.

 

[Pure]

jbj, faux news has an opening:

jbj Obama Confirms Free Healthcare For Mexicans.

cute!

the article actually says:

Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.

Here, the administration also concedes that hospitals would be compensated with public funds for the care of undocumented immigrants.

The bullet points sent tonight by the White House:

Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.

Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.
Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.

There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.
===

as liar, above, has pointed out, as well:

taxpayers covering emergency med expenses is a feature of the present system and it's not affected by the Dem's plan. it's not solved, but neither is it worsened.

the LIE is that the Dem's plan CAUSES some problems regarding taxpayers and illegals.

as far as the benefits, one might want to pause in recommending that persons with TB, whose kids are in schools, be denied medical care.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PURE

Taxpayer money is taxpayer money. The wetbacks get free care and you dont. The logic is pretty simple, really.

1. Mexicans get treated at ER.
2.Americans pay Mexican ER bill.

What part of it dont you get?

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Guys, Human life is sacrosant. In between keeping obese, over-drinking geriatrics alive, haven't we got some kinda responsability to give a hand to anyone who is in our country?

Health isn't some kind of food plan. It's a question of life or death.

PS to add: Pure is anally retentive with a bureaucratic implant and a social bypass.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Guys, Human life is sacrosant. In between keeping obese, over-drinking geriatrics alive, haven't we got some kinda responsability to give a hand to anyone who is in our country?

Health isn't some kind of food plan. It's a question of life or death.

Elle, the real question is not life or death. It's about who should pay for it. Personally, it's my position that the U.S. should be billing Mexico for free health care for 12,000,000 illegals here now. Do you think that number is going to decline?

 

[Pure]

note to jbj:

PURE

Taxpayer money is taxpayer money. The wetbacks get free care and you dont. The logic is pretty simple, really.

1. Mexicans get treated at ER.
2.Americans pay Mexican ER bill.

What part of it dont you get?
===


i don't get why you didn't yell about this, more, from 2000-2008. it's Republican and Democratic policy, having nothing to do with the Dem's New Reform Proposals. i'm pretty sure it was Florida policy too, from the days of Jeb Bush, 1998-2006.

i wonder how you envision ER's operating. apparently not as they do in most of the civilized world.

i "get" why you're yelling about illegals--the great unwashed, etc--, i just don't get the TIMING or LOGIC of this latest outburst.

 

[Liar]

The hospitals along the Mexican Border in west Texas are hurting, some even closing down. Why? Mexicans crossing the border to receive free health care. If you can believe Obama's newest talking points. These hospitals will be reimbursed fromt he public coffers for treating the illegals.

So under the Obama plan, you go to your local ER with a heart attack or storke, unable to speak or communicate and are turned away because you forgot to bring your Social Security card, Naturalization Papers or Birth Certificate to show citizenship? This is just about as workable as the rest of the Obama plan.

Wasn't the proof of citizenship for buying insurance on the exchange thingy?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I've been yelling about it forever but you have your head up your ass and cant hear or read.

I suggested we send the Mexican medical bill to Mexico City, and if those thieves there dont pay it, we grab their goddamned oil wells. Or confiscate the property of the Americans who hire the bastards.

Elect me President and I'll have this country fixed in about a week.

 

[Pure]

neat idea, jenny

jenny Personally, it's my position that the U.S. should be billing Mexico for free health care for 12,000,000 illegals here now.

pure: how exactly would that work, jenny?

note the article below. 450 million in supplemental US "aid" to Mexico. i guess just deduct 50 million or so for illegals' healthcare, right?

look at the last line: the 5 helicopters, to be delivered, are worth about that. so drop 'em.

...hey, wait, Textron is an American company: it loses the contract for the copters; its stockholders and workers lose. .. tricky, eh?

you try to "aid" the brown skinned, and it backfires!

maybe bill the Vatican: it keeps telling 'em to reproduce.


http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE5810G220090902

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The United States has written checks for $214 million of the $1.4 billion promised to Mexico in 2007 to help fight the country's powerful drug cartels, Washington's top anti-drug diplomat said on Tuesday.

The amount is a fraction of $1.12 billion authorized by the U.S. Congress since 2008, of which $700 million was part of funds promised under the 2007 Merida Initiative.

The money is intended to pay for equipment and training for Mexican security forces battling the violent drug gangs that send some $40 billion worth of illegal drugs into the United States every year.

A supplemental spending bill signed into law in June included an additional $420 million in aid for Mexico.

"We've had some deliveries during the summer of some of the non-intrusive detection equipment that is really at the heart of the material part of this (plan) which provides the sort of technology that is needed so that commerce can be inspected rapidly," U.S. Assistant Secretary of State David Johnson said at a briefing for journalists at the U.S. embassy in Mexico City.

The United States is also helping Mexican police set up internal affairs units to root out corrupt officers and improve recruiting procedures.

Johnson said five Bell helicopters built by Textron Inc worth $50 million are due to be delivered in the fall to the Mexican army.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Wasn't the proof of citizenship for buying insurance on the exchange thingy?

You are assuming it won't be extended to include hospital ERs. I'm not. This entire Health Care Reform thing is insane.

Under one provision floating around out there, anyone who can't afford to buy health insurance will be fined $3800. That's nuts.

Obama claims "41,000,000 Americans" are not covered. I believe that includes the 12-15,000,000 illegals.

As I have said before, it is NOT the job of government to be in the Health Care business. Just look at the mess and abuses in the Medicare System. It IS the job of goverment to specify through laws, monitor and arbitrate health care.

 

[Liar]

LIAR only in your tired brain is taxpayer money not taxpayer money.

What the funk are you talking about.

Taxpayer money is taxpayer money.

The question was whether illegal aliens benefit from Obamas health care reform.

If hospitals are not reimbursed for treating illegal aliens in the ER, it's the hospital's economy that gets shafted, and they'll have to take it out on other patients.

Because as it is now, they HAVE to treat the illegial aliens at the ER, whether they get paid or not.

So the ones that the taxpayer money is benefitting are the AMERICAN patients at the hospitals.

The illegals get their ER treatment either way. Reimbursing hospitals for it does not affect the situation for illegals one iota.

It costs tax payer money though. I never said anything else. But it's not, I repeat, not, money illegal aliens. If it was money to illegal aliens, it would improve their situation.

It's money to hospitals so that their MANDATORY treatment of illegal aliens don't ruín them.

What is it with this that doesn't penetrate your think skull? God almighty, how are you able to get up in the morning, if the most simple logic eludes you so completely?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIAR

Taxpayer money is taxpayer money, and Mexicans get treated for free.

Youre trying to argue that an old rope doesnt hurt as much as a new one does, when they hang you. And you totally ignore the Mexican legal status. INS agents should be waiting for them at the ER.

 

[Liar]

You are assuming it won't be extended to include hospital ERs. I'm not. This entire Health Care Reform thing is insane.

I'm going by what is there in the actual proposals and bills as of now. Not what might be there, or not, in the future.

(There might or might not be a ban on cheese in the futute. I like cheese, but I'm not going to be up and arms about it until I see a proposal actually banning cheese.)

If proof or citizenship (or legal residence) is extended to include hospital ERs, they hey presto, out goes the illegal aliens too, and the whole "Obama LIED about not covering illegals" is a moot point.

Granted, it would suck in other ways, just like you described. But you can't have it both ways, and cry LIES about a bill that (in your interprretation, not mine) covers ilegals, and float the idea of a move (show papers at the ER) that would effectively deny them all kinds of care.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

LIAR

Taxpayer money is taxpayer money, and Mexicans get treated for free.

Youre trying to argue that an old rope doesnt hurt as much as a new one does, when they hang you. And you totally ignore the Mexican legal status. INS agents should be waiting for them at the ER.

I don't understand why the INS wasn't on the scene rounding up the illegals last year and the year before when they were openly demonstarting against closing the border. If they had, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JJ

Because every GOP and Democrat politician uses illegals to clean their motels and homes. My piece o' shit GOP representative tried to get a sales tax passed to pay for Mexican healthcare.

 

[Liar]

Taxpayer money is taxpayer money, and Mexicans get treated for free.

I give, up. You're just a broken record.

There are three possibilities:

1. You didn't read my post. Which makes you a dipshit.
2. You didn't understand a fucking thing I wrote. Which makes you an idiot.
3. You're throwing feces for the fuck of it. Which makes you a troll.

Take your pick.

 

[Liar]

Oh hell, just becuse I'm a masochist. I'll actually try one more time:

MEXICANS GETS TREATED FOR FREE WHETHER YOU THROW TAX PAYER MONEY AT THE HOSPITALS OR NOT

Did you get the message this time?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIAR

I understand that you want to make an artifical distinction between taxes, and argue that a rose is a geranium. The result, though, is Mexicans get free treatment and taxpayers pay the bill.