NYC considering supervised injection facilities for heroin addicts

[water505]

Tobacco and sugary drinks are out...heroin is in!

 

[about_average]

Tobacco and sugary drinks are out...heroin is in!

You've never been to NYC have you? You can buy tobacco and sugary drinks there to your heart's content.

You might have a valid comparison if NYC were considering opening heroin overdose facilities.

 

[hashtag4]

I tried to google it but I couldn't find much about it. Any links?

I'm both puzzled and intrigued by the idea.

I suspect that it's a sort of a program for those addicts who refuse to work on their problems. .
That they are trying to either teach proper injection techniques to avoid complications, or they're trying to prevent accidental overdoses and death in those who are either trying to phase down their use, or are injecting erratically.
Plus it's also an opportunity towards trying to educate them or increase their motivation to address their addiction,

On one hand it looks like a reasonable thing to do, but there also seem to be several ethical issues with that.

 

[Saint Peter]

Would that encourage a user to quit? New users to start? Is there a spreadsheet full of names and identification for the participants.

Plenty of pros and cons.

I am glad I never got mixed up with the stuff.

 

[mark_j]

I tried to google it but I couldn't find much about it. Any links?

I'm both puzzled and intrigued by the idea.

I suspect that it's a sort of a program for those addicts who refuse to work on their problems. .
That they are trying to either teach proper injection techniques to avoid complications, or they're trying to prevent accidental overdoses and death in those who are either trying to phase down their use, or are injecting erratically.
Plus it's also an opportunity towards trying to educate them or increase their motivation to address their addiction,

On one hand it looks like a reasonable thing to do, but there also seem to be several ethical issues with that.

Seattle has proposed or is going to/has done the same thing. The idea being as the establishment of "safe shooting spaces" would reduce the incidence of OD. Problem being that they are not proposing any sort of intervention and or recovery program to actually get these folks off the drug to begin with.

Of course it still doesn't address the issue that Heroin is still an illegal drug and the associated problems that occur whit the sales and distribution of said drug...

 

[Lord Pmann]

I've been thinking about starting a heroin addiction. But I don't wanna go full addict. Not at first. I sort of want to start slow. Ease in with some methadone. Then maybe find a nice, safe place to start using. Then, when I'm ready, I'd be excited to share needles with hookers in dark alleys.

 

[hashtag4]

1.Seattle has proposed or is going to/has done the same thing. The idea being as the establishment of "safe shooting spaces" would reduce the incidence of OD.

2.Problem being that they are not proposing any sort of intervention and or recovery program to actually get these folks off the drug to begin with.

3.Of course it still doesn't address the issue that Heroin is still an illegal drug and the associated problems that occur whit the sales and distribution of said drug...

Thanks

2. Good point
I have to say, I think that you guys are in the lead in many other ways, but you don't look after your own very well. At least in NZ but largely in Australia too, healthcare and such programs are easily accessible and generally free.

 

[OldJourno]

A sanctuary city for smack.

 

[Hard_Rom]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insite

Insite is the first legal supervised drug injection site in North America, located at 139 East Hastings Street, in the Downtown Eastside (DTES) neighbourhood of Vancouver, British Columbia. The DTES had 4700 chronic drug users in 2000 and has been considered to be the centre of an "injection drug epidemic".

The site provides a safe and health-focused location for injection drug use, primarily heroin. The clinic does not supply any drugs. Medical staff are present to provide addiction treatment, mental health assistance, and first aid in the event of an overdose or wound. In 2009, the site recorded 276,178 visits (an average of 702 visits per day) by 5,447 unique users; 484 overdoses occurred with no fatalities, due to intervention by medical staff.

Health Canada has provided $500,000 per year to operate the site, and the BC Ministry of Health contributed $1,200,000 to renovate the site and cover operating costs. Insite also serves as a resource for those seeking to use a harm reduction approach for people who inject drugs around the world. In recent years, delegations from a number of countries are on record touring the facility, including Colombia and Brazil.

 

[Disgustipated]

Would that encourage a user to quit? New users to start? Is there a spreadsheet full of names and identification for the participants.

Plenty of pros and cons.

I am glad I never got mixed up with the stuff.

Cheyenne!

 

[Emerson40]

Seattle has proposed or is going to/has done the same thing. The idea being as the establishment of "safe shooting spaces" would reduce the incidence of OD. Problem being that they are not proposing any sort of intervention and or recovery program to actually get these folks off the drug to begin with.

Of course it still doesn't address the issue that Heroin is still an illegal drug and the associated problems that occur whit the sales and distribution of said drug...

Vancouver has had a safe injection site for a couple of years now. It is controversial, and has its supporters and opponents.

There hasn't been a measurable increase in heroin usage because of the sites, and workers at the sites provide information and education, as well as clean needles. They don't supply heroin, or info on where or how to score some.
They are an alternative to filthy alleyways and flop houses, where shared and / or dirty needles abound, and should an OD occur, nobody calls 911 because it brings cops and questions.

Recovery programs, medical advice, and support are available to those who want it, but it is not mandatory, or conditional to using the sites. The thinking behind this is to not deter using the site.

There is of course a signicant $$ cost to running these sites, and plenty of debate about these costs versus the medical and policing costs / savings, and how to stack all of this against the human costs - both lives lost and lives saved. It's a political hot potato, especially around election time.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Seattle has proposed or is going to/has done the same thing. The idea being as the establishment of "safe shooting spaces" would reduce the incidence of OD. Problem being that they are not proposing any sort of intervention and or recovery program to actually get these folks off the drug to begin with.

Because you can't fix addicts, they have to fix themselves.

Of course it still doesn't address the issue that Heroin is still an illegal drug and the associated problems that occur whit the sales and distribution of said drug...

Pretty much all the associated problems with the sales and distribution of illegal drugs are caused directly by their prohibition.

Notice we don't have anywhere near these problems with your legal heroine dealers.
https://mycouponsavingcraving.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/cvs-rite-aid-walgreens-logo1.jpg

Much like liquor stores are not surrounded by massive organized crime and violence as they were under prohibition.

 

[Noor]

I think heroin addicts already have injecting down, i mean, if they are still alive, they do.
I don't think supervision is going to help them much.
Fresh needles would slow the spread of hep and aids but will those be provided?
Clean heroin, not cut with whatever is killing people in Ohio, would also be good, but I doubt that will be on offer.
I suppose if they OD at the supervised facilities, they can be treated so they don't die?

 

[Disgustipated]

I've been thinking about starting a heroin addiction. But I don't wanna go full addict. Not at first. I sort of want to start slow. Ease in with some methadone. Then maybe find a nice, safe place to start using. Then, when I'm ready, I'd be excited to share needles with hookers in dark alleys.

First hit is free.

 

[BotanyBoy]

First hit is free.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder395/37170395.jpg

 

[renard_ruse]

Tobacco and sugary drinks are out...heroin is in!

Here in California in the same election we legalized dope while putting a punative $2 tax on a pack of tobacco cigarettes. Oh we outlawed plastic bags at the grocery store but not a restaurant or small retail shops. California is stooopidddd.

 

[renard_ruse]

Heroin is good, but opioid medication for those who actually need it is bad.

We need to crack down on opioid medication.

 

[mark_j]

Thanks

2. Good point
I have to say, I think that you guys are in the lead in many other ways, but you don't look after your own very well. At least in NZ but largely in Australia too, healthcare and such programs are easily accessible and generally free.

Easily accessible healthcare isn't the issue. As others have pointed out it was/is the over prescribing of opiod type drugs that led to this... After the regulations were put in place to prevent the over prescribing what would the oxy addicts turn to? A cheap alternative..

 

[mark_j]

Because you can't fix addicts, they have to fix themselves.

Ya think?

Pretty much all the associated problems with the sales and distribution of illegal drugs are caused directly by their prohibition.

Notice we don't have anywhere near these problems with your legal heroine dealers.

Much like liquor stores are not surrounded by massive organized crime and violence as they were under prohibition.

So are you suggesting that society legalizes a drug like Heroin and the let people self destruct from its use? At what cost? Kind of a paradox isn't it?

 

[mark_j]

Vancouver has had a safe injection site for a couple of years now. It is controversial, and has its supporters and opponents.

There hasn't been a measurable increase in heroin usage because of the sites, and workers at the sites provide information and education, as well as clean needles. They don't supply heroin, or info on where or how to score some.
They are an alternative to filthy alleyways and flop houses, where shared and / or dirty needles abound, and should an OD occur, nobody calls 911 because it brings cops and questions.

Recovery programs, medical advice, and support are available to those who want it, but it is not mandatory, or conditional to using the sites. The thinking behind this is to not deter using the site.

There is of course a signicant $$ cost to running these sites, and plenty of debate about these costs versus the medical and policing costs / savings, and how to stack all of this against the human costs - both lives lost and lives saved. It's a political hot potato, especially around election time.

Vancouver is sort of a different place.. From what I've heard, they (Seattle) have been sending some folks up there to study how that system works. Whatever way they go they have to do something about the problem one way or the other since it and homelessness (some would say they work hand in hand), are becoming a real issue in Seattle.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So are you suggesting that society legalizes a drug like Heroin and the let people self destruct from its use?

Absolutely.

Spending astro-fuckin-nomical amounts of money trying to make them stop for the last 50 years hasn't done shit to stop them.

Why keep doing it? Other than the giant welfare system surrounding it?

At what cost?

Considerably less than 120 BILLION a year (and nearly 3 TRILLION!! total) fighting the war on drugs that has objectively been a total fucking failure by every single possible measure.

Kind of a paradox isn't it?

Not at all.

They are going to do it and nothing is going to stop them, not even a fuckin' prison sentence.

Every single bit of evdience says they will.

So you open public facilities for people who want to seek treatment and you let the rest of them go. If they OD you call the coroner and notify NOK if applicable, just like we already do.

You stop with the social marxism and you return the freedom of choice to the individual. If they aren't bothering other people they should be allowed to knock themselves out.

Sex and rock n' roll too....it's none of the governments fuckin' business unless someones rights are being violated.

 

[ishtat]

The war on drugs has failed. It is a total failure from A to Z.

Drug injecting rooms save lives, 4000 + have OD. 'd in the Sydney facility since 2001 - None has died. Streets are cleaner with no discarded needles. Big reduction in Hepatitis & HIV.

The Sydney facility is run by the Uniting Church (Methodists) It is funded by the Proceeds of Crimes Act which recovers cash from various criminal activities.

Fundamentalist Christian groups still try to close them down and thankfully fail, substantially because they are strongly supported by the Police force and Medical professionals.

Details of how they work are here.http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/topics/supervised-injecting-facilities

Unfortunately reform has stuck at injecting rooms. Politicians are too cowardly to tackle the decriminalization of Drug usage (as opposed to Drug trading)

 

[Hypoxia]

I wondered, "What countries have the highest and lowest rates of fatal drug abuse, and why?" The Top 10 in drug deaths (raes per 100,000) are:

1 ESTONIA 10.15
2 SOUTH AFRICA 8.36
3 UNITED STATES 6.96
4 IRAN 6.28
5 GEORGIA 5.78
6 RUSSIA 5.50
7 KYRGYZSTAN 5.29
8 BELIZE 4.99
9 LESOTHO 4.95
10 FINLAND 4.87

Lithuania, Norway, UK, and Denmark are way up there too.I see little pattern here except for Scandinavian and ex-USSR states. The bottom 35 (see the site) are more explicable: they're mostly where you're either too fucking poor to buy shit, or you're likely to be shot or hanged before you can O.D.

People like to get fucked up. Society gets to decide: do they/we live, or die?

 

[Noor]

Easily accessible healthcare isn't the issue. As others have pointed out it was/is the over prescribing of opiod type drugs that led to this... After the regulations were put in place to prevent the over prescribing what would the oxy addicts turn to? A cheap alternative..

Bullshit. Heroin addiction has been around a lot longer than the current oxy use.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Easily accessible healthcare isn't the issue. As others have pointed out it was/is the over prescribing of opiod type drugs that led to this... After the regulations were put in place to prevent the over prescribing what would the oxy addicts turn to? A cheap alternative..

Really?

I blame the Chinese and war...

Heroine and addiction have been around a really long time now.