Numbers, when do you spell them out.

[BBlaketbv]

Numbers, like 11, 35 or 2569.
Eleven, thirty-five, two thousand five hundred sixty-nine.

When do you spell them out? What reads better? Are there proper rules to this when writing?

I was taught to spell out all numbers from zero to twenty and any round numbers like seventy. Anything else, like 35 and 2569 would be written as numbers.
But since I'm not a native English speaker I'm not sure if that rule is the same in English as it is in Dutch.
I did find some article that said in English you only spell out numbers from zero to ten.

Intuitively I've witten ages like 18 and 19 in my stories before as numbers, not spelled out. That is the way I've seen it in stories before I began writing myself and just accepted it without questioning the method. However, in Dutch writing 18 should be spelled out as 'achttien' (8+10).
While I've written ages that way, for items I've sometimes still spelled it out.

You'll have written numbers in your story without thinking about it as well. Which rules do you follow? What reads better? Am I overthinking this?
Maybe somebody can explain it or direct me to a place where those rules are explained.

 

[desecration]

I was taught to spell out all numbers from zero to twenty and any round numbers like seventy. Anything else, like 35 and 2569 would be written as numbers.

I follow this but apply it to the root of the number, so "thirty thousand" is spelled out but 30,001 is not.

 

[alohadave]

Most people follow the Chicago Manual of Style, but there are several style guides you can use (and depending on who you write for, they may have their own style guide).

The key is to pick a style and be consistent about using it.

 

[lustychimera]

I believe the 1-10 thing is more the newsprint style guide (Associated Press).

For fiction:

Chicago Manual of Style Numbers Rules​

The publishing industry—books, non-news magazines—typically follows CMoS. Humanities writing often follows the rules of the Chicago Manual of Style too.

• Spell out numbers zero through one hundred; all whole numbers should be spelled out, e.g., twelve thousand.
• Spell out numbers at the beginning of a sentence.
• Spell out large, whole, round numbers-unless they’re amounts of currency, then use numerals
• Fractions should be written with numerals unless they begin a sentence.

I normally try to round numbers to easily expressed integers like one-third or two o'clock or two hundred dollars.

Even for big numbers, I try to: 1200--> Twelve hundred. Or One thousand, two hundred.

When a specific number is important or I want to impress on pedantry, then I'll do 1:34 a.m. Or $1,257.03.

Addresses tend to be numbers to me. That's more of a proper noun in my mind. 1203 Pine Street.

Really, I've seen things written every which way. There's no hard rule unless you're querying a publishing house. It's just what you think looks or sounds best for the passage. If there's a reason why you think it'd improve the story, absolutely break the guidelines.

 

[Paul_Chance]

The MLA style guide says:
-spell out a number if you can spell it out in one or two words.
-spell out a number if it is a round number.
-spell out a number if it's in dialogue.
-spell out a number if it is the first word in a sentence.

 

[StillStunned]

As a professional editor: clarity first, consistency second, style guides third.

As a fiction writer: never use a number where you can use a word.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

clarity first, consistency second, style guides third.

Above all else, this.

 

[KeithD]

The MLA style guide says:
-spell out a number if you can spell it out in one or two words.
-spell out a number if it is a round number.
-spell out a number if it's in dialogue.
-spell out a number if it is the first word in a sentence.

The MLA style guide is for academic nonfiction, not fiction.

The best guidance provided on the thread for U.S. fiction style was that from the Chicago Manual of Style.

 

[KeithD]

As a professional editor: clarity first, consistency second, style guides third.

I'm quite sure that's not what professional editors are taught. They're taught to follow style guides if they are provided for an editorial project--first.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm quite sure that's not what professional editors are taught. They're taught to follow style guides if they are provided for an editorial project--first.

The last time any client of mine even mentioned a style guide was more than a decade ago. In my line of business, they've just disappeared.

 

[MrPixel]

I mostly follow Chicago. I'll spell-out one through twenty, and then tens (thirty, forty, etc.) up to one hundred, then every hundred, and so on.

Of course "69" is always numeric!

Where I waffle is with time. Six o'clock is fine, as is eight-thirty or nine-fifteen, but 9:45 and any to-the-minute in dialog is numeric. It may not be right, but IMO it reads better.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Whatever looks best, intuitively.

 

[KeithD]

The last time any client of mine even mentioned a style guide was more than a decade ago. In my line of business, they've just disappeared.

Is your line of business book publishing--working with actual publishers? An appropriate style guide is the first thing any writer should look for in polishing their work up. Telling them not to is harmful to them.

 

[KeithD]

I mostly follow Chicago. I'll spell-out one through twenty, and then tens (thirty, forty, etc.) up to one hundred, then every hundred, and so on.

Of course "69" is always numeric!

Where I waffle is with time. Six o'clock is fine, as is eight-thirty or nine-fifteen, but 9:45 and any to-the-minute in dialog is numeric. It may not be right, but IMO it reads better.

Time is an exception provided by Chicago. There is one entry in Chicago for the general rule and then the rest of the section gives the exceptions, of which there are many.

 

[OffNSFW]

College-educated editor here. It's fiction, and you have as much or as little stylistic latitude as you want. What mood are you creating? What's appropriate for the characters' situation? What looks aesthetically pleasing on the page? Do you want it to read smooth? Do you want it to be jarring? You're not writing for a newspaper. Know the rules, but follow them at your discretion.

 

[StillStunned]

Is your line of business book publishing--working with actual publishers?

Business reports, internal communications, web texts, all that kind of stuff.

 

[KeithD]

College-educated editor here. It's fiction, and you have as much or as little stylistic latitude as you want.

Well, no, not really--as, here, the rejection files show. It's not all about the author. Any publisher of an anthology--and that's what the Literotica story file is, a running anthology--will put uniform read for the reader above the ego of any author who doesn't earn the publishing house big bucks.

I think being unreal about competing in the publishing world isn't helpful to writers trying to do that.

 

[KeithD]

Business reports, internal communications, web texts, all that kind of stuff.

Entirely different animals from commercial fiction.

 

[alohadave]

Well, no, not really--as, here, the rejection files show. It's not all about the author. Any publisher of an anthology--and that's what the Literotica story file is, a running anthology--will put uniform read for the reader above the ego of any author who doesn't earn the publishing house big bucks.

I think being unreal about competing in the publishing world isn't helpful to writers trying to do that.

I read a lot of stories here, and there is no consistent style being followed, other than basic grammar and spelling (and often lacking in those).

I understand that you have a lot of experience with commercial publishing, but Lit is not up to that standard, and barely tries to be consistent.

Readers are not presented with anything resembling consistently, and without an editorial team making edits and corrections, there won't be.

And for an amateur site, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The last time any client of mine even mentioned a style guide was more than a decade ago. In my line of business, they've just disappeared.

I do get style guides (technical publishing) but clarity trumps the style guide when the two conflict.

It's rarely an issue, because the style guide was written by people who also valued clarity and many of its rules are intended to support that. But once in a while I end up noting something like "this violates section blah blah blah of the style guide, but stet b/c following the guide here would be confusing to readers". I've never had any pushback to that.

End of the day, if what we print is confusing to readers then it's not fit for purpose.

 

[KeithD]

I read a lot of stories here, and there is no consistent style being followed, other than basic grammar and spelling (and often lacking in those).

I understand that you have a lot of experience with commercial publishing, but Lit is not up to that standard, and barely tries to be consistent.

Readers are not presented with anything resembling consistently, and without an editorial team making edits and corrections, there won't be.

And for an amateur site, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yes, Lit. style is loose, but it's definitely not "whatever." Maybe you're just reading through the consistencies that are at least attempted in the Lit. style. Stories are being rejected for not following basic Lit. presentation style.

I don't know why writers here would stubbornly put themselves behind the eight ball on best practices for making their stories reader friendly. Folks can do as they like and can get away with here, of course, but I don't know why they insist on shooting themselves in the feet--other than that they are just too lazy to learn the basics.

 

[KeithD]

It's rarely an issue, because the style guide was written by people who also valued clarity

This is the operable point that apparently some don't want to acknowledge so that they can feel comfortable with winging it and not mastering the basics. Rather than acknowledging that this is a "very small area on the margin" issue, they'll drag it out as permission to just do whatever they want short of publisher rejection. Such bad habits aren't going to serve them well when/if they want to rise out of the weeds.

The better style guides emphasize clarity. What they don't do all that well is keep up with the quickly moving times. Chicago still hasn't dealt with best presentation of text messages, for instance. At least I don't think it has. I've seen some discussions on additions/changes for CMS 18, but I haven't seen a text myself (and I don't plan on buying a copy at this stage of my writing life).

 

[Paul_Chance]

1. If you're self-editing/publishing as we do here, then pick your favorite guide and go with it.
2. If you're working with an editor/publisher, they'll tell you what their style guide is. Adhere to it. If you have any questions, ask them. (But only after you've read and digesting their guide.)

As Keith said at one point earlier, the whole purpose of a style guide is for consistency and clarity FOR THE AUDIENCE, not for the author.

A good style guide, any good style guide, will answer well over 90% of your stylistic questions and provide you with that clarity and consistency that your fans will love.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Eighteen hundred and seventy-nine has a better ring to it than 1879 does. If the number is the first word of the sentence, you spell it out regardless. Billions and billions of stars sounds better there 1,000,000,000 does as well.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Eighteen hundred and seventy-nine has a better ring to it than 1879 does.

Except when it's a year, surely? 1879 immediately designates a year in most publications, does it not? 1,879 is the number, and I'd always use numerals for anything over a hundred, unless it was a round thousand, ten-thousand etc.