Number crunching

[Todd]

139,400,000 people times $33,900 = $4,727,193,400,000

Say we tookan national sales tax of oh say 10%, $3390.

That would give the government a yearly income of $472,719,340,000 to provide for services, such as road repair, education, defense, etc.

Policing would be slaried by thier own tickets, and security services etc.

Schools would be funded privately or homeschooling no more Governement indoctrination.

That leaves on average $30,510 for the average person.

Invest 20% {In a simple no interest bank account from age 16-70}of that yearly for Retirement. $6102 time 54 years equals $329,508. General retirement 70 till aveage death 85, 15 years.
$329,508 divide 15 years equals $21,967 per retirement year.

That leaves the average person $24,408 to live on for groceries, electric, car, insurance, mortgage, schooling, etc.

$472,719,349,000 is enough for the government to provide what it is supposed to and not enough to take away what it isn't supposed to have.

 

[Todd]

I am surpriesed none has yet to tear me a new "one"

 

[Ksss]

I must be about average then...I live comfortably, but I do not live an expensive lifestyle.

 

[WriterDom]

The organized crime lobby would fight a sales tax. Along with the CPAs and lawyers. And how would the liberals buy votes?

 

[Todd]

The organized crime lobby would fight a sales tax. Along with the CPAs and lawyers. And how would the liberals buy votes?

The REPUBLICANS, those evil racist, commie, nazi Bastards, and the LIBERTARIANS, thos esocial anarchist and the democrats, those angels of mercies, kind and benevolent people, would not be able to buy votes.

All parties would actually have to win an election on platform of issues instead of voter buying, life style threats. I know thats a novel idea.

 

[registered "^^"]

AND

you would have to do away with the class society system.....heaven forbid we were all equal.

 

[Todd]

Re: AND

you would have to do away with the class society system.....heaven forbid we were all equal.

Well we would still have the same class structure unfortunately, but all would have the same tax bracket 10% in sales taxes across the board anything and everything you buy 10%.

Just the governement wouldn't have that other 40-60% that they take off before you ever really see it, to buy the votes or use as an incentive to those to lazy to take care of thier own selves.

The 10% the government got would have to have some of it go out to social service of those unable to wrok, the infirmed, disabled etc. The government through a limited 10% income from the peopel would have to be forced to be more diligent to seek out the sytem abusers and weed them out fast so that not a lot of the 10% would be used up on them.

 

[Todd]

I must be about average then...I live comfortably, but I do not live an expensive lifestyle.

Nothing wrong with being average

 

[Guest]

cost of living

Sadly, I live in an area that the everage income is much higher and the cost of living is astronomical. I mean can you believe paying the average of $1500 for a flat that is the size of a shoe box and you don't own it, but end up burning that money for a place to live? Not to mention the costs of transportation and all the taxes upon taxes. Although, I cannot complain too much because the pay rate is much higher, but that does not make provisons for people who don't make enough to afford living in this area.

 

[Todd]

Re: cost of living

Not to mention the costs of transportation and all the taxes upon taxes.

well What I am prposing is a system that isn't taxes upon taxes.

The only tax would be the 10% tax on everything buyable. That leaves you 90% of your incomce to do anything you like with.

 

[BlondGirl]

Re: Re: AND

The government through a limited 10% income from the peopel would have to be forced to be more diligent to seek out the sytem abusers and weed them out fast so that not a lot of the 10% would be used up on them.

I hope child support enforcement would be an issue.
todd, I am a welfare mother. during the 2 years it took of going through the court to get child support established and enforced, welfare checks were how we "survived." It was 158$/month. My rent was 175--I sold my blood (illegal now) and did every odd job I could to pay the bills and other stuff. I had a baby and was pregnant and could not find a job. (Having no car really makes a difference there also.)
Poverty is a trap. Once sucked in, it is damned near impossible for those who truly want out of it to get away in a timely fashion.

And, statistically, most people go off welfare due to marriage. That combination of income makes a difference. A mightly big one.
For us, it was enforcement of child support.

Oh, and the government took their payback of the top--he started paying in spring, we did not get the first check until November. It was for 3$, I believe. Obviously it was Christmas money for the baby. (BTW--the govt charged interrest also--10% and kept all his tax returns as well until they had all "cash benefits" back.)

As far as the food stamps that we got erratically during that time (and yes, it was very erratic), my mother worked all her life and paid in her benefits. She died shortly after my birth--I did not qualify for her benifits (nor her other children) due to her being about 50$ below the minimum pay-in requirement. I am very sure that I never got anywhere near what she paid in.

It took more than 5 years for us to get completely out of the system--from the beginning of my illness to saying good-bye to that (hopefully) forever and now being a full-fledged tax-payer again. I am currently in the 30-40000$ range and regularly donate to charity as well as volunteer my time in other ways.
I don't have it easy now--but very manageble. And I know damned good and well that anybody can have what happened to me also happen to them.

(Todd--your comment about laziness is what bothered me--I worked every job I could get in school and the pay was so low that I STILL qualified for everything except the welfare--hard to take anytheing out of 158$/month)--You seem to ignore that poverty is systemic--you can't just treat the symptom--it takes a lot more than simply throwing a job at someone or telling them they can starve without working--I was diagnosed with an illness and was flat on my back for 7 months--that was enough time for my entire support-system to disintegrate. Including my father who kicked me out for being "a lazy whore". (I guess he forgot that i always contributed to the household when I had a job, huh?)

Be careful about those judgements about those less blessed than you, Todd.......

(Oh, and 5 years is a long long time--but the system also drags it out--it needs to be treated like a private business that gets results--the inefficiency is horrifying!)

 

[BlondGirl]

Oh, and for the record, I do support a flat tax. But I realize that it would have to come about slowly--the system of our country is too dependant upon the current system to suddenly change it. (I support both a 10% income tax as well as a product tax--ie, ciggarettes being taxed heavily to pay for healthcare coverage of smokers--that is fair to me.)

 

[Guest]

This is actually quite interesting. I will have to talk to a friend of mine who is in finance. Although, I was wondering that even if there was a flat tax her in the States, how it would effect things globally since there are other countries that deal with finances and monetary exchanges in the States.

 

[Todd]

Re: Re: Re: AND

(Todd--your comment about laziness is what bothered me--I worked every job I could get in school

You just proved that you were not what I was talking about when refereing to laziness. You made an effort to do something.

My definition of laziness on social assistance are people from the age of 18-50 who are able bodied, able minded, fully heatlhy physically and mentally {in other words if there was work there is nothing in them that prevents them from doing it} who do no make an effort to even try to llok for employment of anysort.

So as you can see you do not qualify in my definition of lazy

 

[rambling man]

we used to have a system where the Justices of the Peace around here got paid from the judgements they issued...did not work to well as some folks were tempted to take money from the innocent....I have respect for the zeal and dedication of the police but would be afraid if that was how he earned his keep

welfare sucks..it needs to encourage people on it not to get meaningless jobs that the legions of middle class teenagers could fill, but to get an education that would not only advance them but increase our national productivity as well...whether that education be trade school or college

 

[BlondGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: AND

So as you can see you do not qualify in my definition of lazy

Unfortunately, most people disagreed--including one of my caseworkers from TDHH who would call me at 6 in the mornign to harrass me. (Note: We did not have electricity but did have phone--phone was 3$/month with the poverty discount. It was terrifying. The power he had to determine that I was a lazy white bitch and to make sure that I was well aware of it. I fought him--but it did cost me. I would love to see him as a patient now........)

Not everyone is as lucky as I was either. At least I had a clue that life could be better. Many people have no idea whatsoever.

(I was a single parent who was in school full time and working full time--he felt that if I was able to go to school full time, that I should get another full time job and quit school and just make do until the child support order was filled. Obvisulsly I was capable, right? Oh and BTW--the child support I do get has never fully covered daycare and insurance. So, it helps, but I am still in the hole compared to his part--good thing I am not a vincictive bitch and dont' go after him to completely fulfil his court order on paying more than JUST the childsupport--ie--insurance would cost him nada--he alrady has kids on his insurance at his job. Instead, I have been paying it for years. And kiddo just had a series of abnormal labs. Pretty scary--I might have to be the vindictive bitch avterall...)

 

[rambling man]

there are people though, who do take their welfare as an "entitlement" and spend their lives on it.


By the way, the 2 year limit is bullshit, after people reach 2 years, they get on the SSI rolls under expanded definitions of disabled

congratulations BG on all of your success...you are the poster child for everyone who is poor but dreams of a better life

 

[Todd]

congratulations BG on all of your success...you are the poster child for everyone who is poor but dreams of a better life

I agree and many congrats

 

[BlondGirl]

By the way, the 2 year limit is bullshit, after people reach 2 years, they get on the SSI rolls under expanded definitions of disabled

I have never known anyone who got SSI unless they had some form of mental retardation or actual physical disability.

I never qualified for most of the programs--either I was too white or worked and earned too much money or I already had the 158/month or whatever. Or the waiting list was too long.

White was the most frusterating one. I am sure that Asians and Hispanics also get the same treatment here (and yes, I do live in a horrifyingly racist area--just one mor reason to homeschool my kid--I hope never learns such attitudes!)

FYI--That 158$/month was here in the Great State of Texas during the years of 1992-1994.
Not long ago at all.

 

[BlondGirl]

I agree and many congrats

and

congratulations BG on all of your success...you are the poster child for everyone who is poor but dreams of a better life

Thank you. My desire and efforts are not rare. I know many many people who fought just as hard or harder. Unfortunately, I was blessed with success--many never make it. And they are judged just the same as people who never tried. Or perhaps more harshly because they appear to have drained the system even more. (My sister is one of those people!)