Nude vs naked and some related questions.

[AG31]

A theologian, with whom I am close, was commenting on the fact that Christ on the cross is almost always shown in a loin cloth. I'd always assumed this was due to the general prudery of society, not just the church. He thought that the underlying reason was that sex is a very powerful force and that we should not be distracted when we should be attending to worship.

In other words, it represents a respect for our bodily creation, as befits a religion based on incarnation.

This got me thinking about the power of the display of breasts and genitals. There may be a valid reason for society to have laws against uncovering those parts of the body in public. Sex is very powerful. Sometimes we need to be able to attend to other things.

Here's an example of how nude and naked are used to describe different things.

it reminded the Dominatrix to question whether her motive to be nude extended beyond simple comfort. She smoothed the slip into place and closed the wardrobe door.
On the bed a young woman lay splayed between its four posts. She sweated naked save for a coarse leather blindfold that reached to the tip of her nose and a thick braided bit cinched cruelly tight.

From Shock Wave by @visioneer

Do you find this distinction between nude and naked to be persuasive? If so, would you addres the questions below?

- Is this figure by John Singer Sargent naked or nude?
https://arthur.io/art/john-singer-sargent/nude-study-of-thomas-e-mckeller

- Is this figure by Edouard Manet naked or nude?
https://www.manet.org/olympia.jsp

- Are these people in the photos of a nudist camp naked or nude?
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/nudists.1627078/#post-100401879

- If National Geographic is to be believed, it is common for women to go bare breasted in some equatorial societies. How does this affect the men? Are they just used to it, so that breasts are no longer erotic? Or are they constantly distracted?

- Do people who frequent nudist camps have a lower than normal libido?

- Do any of you get sexually aroused when viewing art that society labels nude? E.g., David by Michelangelo

 

[StillStunned]

A theologian, with whom I am close, was commenting on the fact that Christ on the cross is almost always shown in a loin cloth. I'd always assumed this was due to the general prudery of society, not just the church. He thought that the underlying reason was that sex is a very powerful force and that we should not be distracted when we should be attending to worship.

In other words, it represents a respect for our bodily creation, as befits a religion based on incarnation.

A couple of factoids before I answer your main questions.
1. It wasn't until the turn of the first millennium that Christians began to add Christ's figure to their crosses. His moment of agony was considered a weakness, not something to be venerated ("The Dream of the Rood" notwithstanding).
2. Hiding his naughty bits to me seems an expression of the idea that Man is closer to the Divine than to nature. A consequence of the transience/immanence juxtaposition that sets Man (and usually only men, not women) apart from the world around them. Being a higher creature, Man should ideally not be sexual.

(And this exhausts my knowledge on both subjects, so don't expect any useful discussion from me beyond this.)

As for nude v naked...

Despite "nude" being used in both art and nudism, to me the word is inherently more sexual than "naked". "Naked" describes a state. "Nude" draws the attention to the body. Plus, you can make it sound dirty. "Nuuuuude", rhymes with "lewd".

 

[yowser]

Despite "nude" being used in both art and nudism, to me the word is inherently more sexual than "naked". "Naked" describes a state. "Nude" draws the attention to the body. Plus, you can make it sound dirty. "Nuuuuude", rhymes with "lewd".

Stunned is right, with 'nude' referring implicitly to humans. The meanings overlap, but one can also refer to a 'naked tree branch' or a 'naked lie' where 'nude' would never work.

 

[StillStunned]

Idea for a voyeurism story title: "The Nude Eye".

 

[SimonDoom]

I sometimes use "nude" and "naked" interchangeably, but I see them as subtly different. "Nude" is the more neutral term, and simply means without clothing. The use of the word "nude" may suggest a level of acceptability or normality about being without clothing. "Naked" is a more titillating term because it emphasizes the exposed and vulnerable aspect of being without clothing. If I'm striving for an erotic, arousing effect, I will tend to use the word "naked,' but I may mix it up with "nude" to avoid repetition. My reaction is the opposite of StillStunned's.

I see the Sargent painting as a nude. The Manet painting could be seen either way, because there is a suggestion in the painting that the viewer is seeing something he's not supposed to see-- there's an element of surprise in the exposure. I see most nudist camp photos as "nude" rather than "naked," although if they are more provocative, like the last photo in that thread, "naked" might be the right term.

To be honest, I always find a nude/naked female body to be sexually stimulating, however it is presented. It's a primal, automatic reaction. That's not to say that all nude/naked displays are equally erotic, but they're all at least SOMEWHAT erotic.

I haven't attended nudist camps so I don't know what impact regularly attending one has on one's perception.

 

[Trionyx]

Complex questions with NO absolute correct answers.

In general, the art world in the US would use 'nude' for the three Sargent, Manet and Michelangelo examples.
At a nudist camp, I would posit the word 'nude' would be used.

Your example from Shock Wave not withstanding, 'naked' tends to suggest TO ME more frivolity or fun while 'nude' tends to describe more serious or sexual topics, BUT there are so many exceptions that I wouldn't hang my hat on this description at all.

"Mommy, I saw Jimmy and he's naked."
"The skinny dippers were naked as jaybirds."
"Let's get naked and fool around."
"I love it when my nude wife comes to me in the bedroom."
"The burlesque dancer stripped down until she was totally nude."
"The porn stars came out of the dressing room nude."

By the way, breasts are not viewed as sexual by many cultures and would not be distracting at all.

 

[Belegon]

- Do people who frequent nudist camps have a lower than normal libido?

Not in my experience. Which is, admittedly, slightly out of date, but still... My first truly serious relationship after high school was with a young lady who had grown up in a family where nudity was kind of the norm at home and when she graduated high school we moved in together in a clothing-optional club in eastern San Diego County. It was my first, and so far my only, exposure to a relatively clothing less living situation. I would say that libido wise, the normal broad spectrum applied. It wasn't a swinging situation, it was much more kind of a sun lovers thing. Sex in public was not encouraged. But via my conversations with other people in the club, I definitely felt that the residents were more open and honest about sexuality in general and I fielded several offers over the time we lived there for, shall we say, more private interactions. I didn't accept any of them, because my girlfriend and I were in a relationship and while we had discussed and accepted a more lenient than straight monogamy format, I didn't feel that it would be appropriate to be fooling around with women in the club where we lived.

But my exposure to conversations in the hot tub or sauna especially made me feel like my fellow residents were more sexually active than the people living outside the club. And I didn't mind any of that, for the most part. I learned quite a bit from some of those conversations. Of course, being nineteen years old and in my first serious sexual relationship, I had a lot to learn at the time.

 

[MillieDynamite]

You don't always have to be nude to be exposed. This is from Just a Friendly Rough Encounter...

My gaze followed her voice. Shirley stood at the foot of a grand, curved staircase, leaning against the banister. Wearing a black lace teddy, her magnificent prick hid her belly button, and the frilly lace pattern against her alabaster skin took my breath away. The sexy teddy bulged and strained to contain her massive prick.

 

[jehoram]

- Is this figure by John Singer Sargent naked or nude?
https://arthur.io/art/john-singer-sargent/nude-study-of-thomas-e-mckeller

Nude.

- Is this figure by Edouard Manet naked or nude?
https://www.manet.org/olympia.jsp

Nude

- Are these people in the photos of a nudist camp naked or nude?
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/nudists.1627078/#post-100401879

Nude

- If National Geographic is to be believed, it is common for women to go bare breasted in some equatorial societies. How does this affect the men? Are they just used to it, so that breasts are no longer erotic? Or are they constantly distracted?

They're just used to it, although breasts can be erotic in the right circumstances. A century ago, the sight of a naked leg shoulder was thought to be erotic, although we're used to seeing them now.

- Do people who frequent nudist camps have a lower than normal libido?

Well, "nudist camps" are a nomenclature of the past, like "nudist colonies." Now they call them "resorts" or "communities." And I don't think they have lower libidos. But they can put them on the back burner more easily, due to their familiarity with naked bodies. They still communicate with each other that they're turned on, just like people do in clothed environments.

- Do any of you get sexually aroused when viewing art that society labels nude? E.g., David by Michelangelo

I don't, with David. But there are others that I find arousing. Again, it's context. After years of seeing nude women on this site, I no longer get hard-ons just by seeing a picture of a naked woman. But when I see pictures of women spreading their legs to draw attention to their pussies as they smile for the camera, yeah, I get aroused.

My own personal definitions: "Naked" is when one is without clothes. It's a neutral term, although I see it more often in the context of "involuntarily unclothed," as in naked prisoners.

"Nude" is voluntarily unclothed, with no context of it being involuntary.

 

[Bazzle]

One could go and get naked and a nudist beach?

As for male nudity and covering the figure.

Michelangelo didn't worry with David? It was a very religious carving.

I think the white guy and loin cloth is a Victorian prude thing?

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I sometimes use "nude" and "naked" interchangeably, but I see them as subtly different. "Nude" is the more neutral term, and simply means without clothing. The use of the word "nude" may suggest a level of acceptability or normality about being without clothing. "Naked" is a more titillating term because it emphasizes the exposed and vulnerable aspect of being without clothing. If I'm striving for an erotic, arousing effect, I will tend to use the word "naked,' but I may mix it up with "nude" to avoid repetition. My reaction is the opposite of StillStunned's.

I see the Sargent painting as a nude. The Manet painting could be seen either way, because there is a suggestion in the painting that the viewer is seeing something he's not supposed to see-- there's an element of surprise in the exposure. I see most nudist camp photos as "nude" rather than "naked," although if they are more provocative, like the last photo in that thread, "naked" might be the right term.

To be honest, I always find a nude/naked female body to be sexually stimulating, however it is presented. It's a primal, automatic reaction. That's not to say that all nude/naked displays are equally erotic, but they're all at least SOMEWHAT erotic.

I haven't attended nudist camps so I don't know what impact regularly attending one has on one's perception.

I’m with Doom on this one. While effectively interchangeable, naked has an edge that nude doesn’t. It’s almost like nude is an adjective and naked a verb.

 

[ronde]

Here in the South, "nude" relates to art and "naked' means you have no clothes on in an otherwise normal situation, as in "I walked into the house and she was naked and sleeping on the couch. We also have a third word for the state of being sans clothing. It's "nekkid". You're "nekkid" if you got "naked" in order to seduce.

 

[TheLobster]

It’s almost like nude is an adjective and naked a verb.

It's a cognate of "nookie": present tense 'nook', past tense 'nake', past participle 'naked'.

 

[StillStunned]

- Do any of you get sexually aroused when viewing art that society labels nude? E.g., David by Michelangelo

I just remembered: yes, but only because the redhead and I were staying in a hotel a stone's throw away and were making up for some lost time. The statue itself had nothing to do with it.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

It's a cognate of "nookie": present tense 'nook', past tense 'nake', past participle 'naked'.

Actually, the etymology of naked kind of makes my point. A snippet from etimilogyonline.com shows: Old English nacod "nude, unclothed, bare; empty," also "not fully clothed"

So naked has meaning beyond nude. Bare; empty, these words have connotations that give naked a potential weight nude does not carry.

@TheLobster While it doesn’t derive from ‘nookie’ it can certainly increase the odds of getting there.

 

[AG31]

2. Hiding his naughty bits to me seems an expression of the idea that Man is closer to the Divine than to nature. A consequence of the transience/immanence juxtaposition that sets Man (and usually only men, not women) apart from the world around them. Being a higher creature, Man should ideally not be sexual.

(And this exhausts my knowledge on both subjects, so don't expect any useful discussion from me beyond this.)

At the risk of de-railing this thread with a theological discussion, there's quite a lively debate about the degree of embodidness in the person of Jesus. What you describe here is thought, by many, to be in error. That was precisely my theologian friend's point, that Jesus was fully human and sexual and that we can't just ignore human nakedness when it's thrust upon us. But no need to go back and forth on this here. Right?

 

[AG31]

but one can also refer to a 'naked tree branch' or a 'naked lie' where 'nude' would never work.

Good point.

 

[AG31]

Idea for a voyeurism story title: "The Nude Eye".

Also a good point. And contradicts Yowser's, which I also labeled a "good point." Oh dear...

 

[AG31]

I see the Sargent painting as a nude.

I wonder if that's because you're a straight guy. (I THINK you are... But I may be forgetting stuff.)

 

[AG31]

By the way, breasts are not viewed as sexual by many cultures and would not be distracting at all.

Interesting, but how do you know this?

 

[AG31]

Not in my experience. Which is, admittedly, slightly out of date, but still... My first truly serious relationship after high school was with a young lady who had grown up in a family where nudity was kind of the norm at home and when she graduated high school we moved in together in a clothing-optional club in eastern San Diego County. It was my first, and so far my only, exposure to a relatively clothing less living situation. I would say that libido wise, the normal broad spectrum applied. It wasn't a swinging situation, it was much more kind of a sun lovers thing. Sex in public was not encouraged. But via my conversations with other people in the club, I definitely felt that the residents were more open and honest about sexuality in general and I fielded several offers over the time we lived there for, shall we say, more private interactions. I didn't accept any of them, because my girlfriend and I were in a relationship and while we had discussed and accepted a more lenient than straight monogamy format, I didn't feel that it would be appropriate to be fooling around with women in the club where we lived.

But my exposure to conversations in the hot tub or sauna especially made me feel like my fellow residents were more sexually active than the people living outside the club. And I didn't mind any of that, for the most part. I learned quite a bit from some of those conversations. Of course, being nineteen years old and in my first serious sexual relationship, I had a lot to learn at the time.

Did you see erections in public very often? Ever? What situations would cause a guy to get erect?

 

[mrs_mackenzie]

And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:10-11

I like the idea that nude is by choice. But in my stories I almost never use nude because it seems a bit posh. Rich women sunbathe nude; I'd sunbathe naked.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I sometimes use "nude" and "naked" interchangeably, but I see them as subtly different. "Nude" is the more neutral term, and simply means without clothing. The use of the word "nude" may suggest a level of acceptability or normality about being without clothing. "Naked" is a more titillating term because it emphasizes the exposed and vulnerable aspect of being without clothing. If I'm striving for an erotic, arousing effect, I will tend to use the word "naked,' but I may mix it up with "nude" to avoid repetition. My reaction is the opposite of StillStunned's.

Intriguing. I use the words in the complete opposite way (I'm with @StillStunned on this). For me, nude is the more sensual, provocative word, implicit with seduction, full of self awareness, sexual knowing. Olympia is nude, she absolutely knows what's going on.

Whereas naked for me is a more pure, pristine state, the natural state, Eve before the apple. Stripped right back to the human essence, there's no hiding. I often have scenes in my stories where the woman takes all her jewellery off, her rings and adornments, lets down her long hair, and gives herself completely and willingly to her partner.

She began to undo the buttons of my shirt. "Take your clothes off, Adam, let me see you." She pulled the shirt-tails out from my trousers. "You don't seem to mind naked. I always seem to be nude."

She was right. Whenever we'd had sex before, Ruby always kept something on, be it stockings or high heels, or a velvet ribbon around her throat; she always kept some adornment about her, and always her jewellery on her fingers, silver rings; and pearls in her ears. She always kept something on.

"I'll undress, Ruby, so you can see me. But I'm going to see you too, stripped naked."

I looked into her eyes and Ruby looked back at me. "No hiding?" she asked.

"No hiding. Like your ass, all exposed."

"But I'm always hiding." Ruby smiled. She was beautiful.

 

[AG31]

Do you find this distinction between nude and naked to be persuasive?

I still think "naked" has more of an edge than "nude," when considered out of context. But it's clear from the examples in this thread that either one can be used neutrally or sexually.

- Is this figure by John Singer Sargent naked or nude?

It's actually this painting that started me thinking. It's positioned in the museum so that you have to walk into a very small gallery to see it. That suggests that the people who set it up were aware of an extra charge. I was stunned when I saw it. Happily so. For me it went way beyound a neutral representation of the human body.

- Is this figure by Edouard Manet naked or nude?
This painting was definitely shocking in its time. But I don't think the impact is sexual. But, then, I'm a straight girl. But I didn't see any guys or lesbians here identify it is sexual.

- Are these people in the photos of a nudist camp naked or nude?
Nude in the simplest sense of it. I was struck by the naturalness of the photos.

- If National Geographic is to be believed, it is common for women to go bare breasted in some equatorial societies. How does this affect the men? Are they just used to it, so that breasts are no longer erotic? Or are they constantly distracted?

I don't have an opinion on this. It sounds like @Trionyx has some info I'd like to hear more about.

- Do people who frequent nudist camps have a lower than normal libido?

Interesting response from @Belegon. I hope to hear a little more from them.

- Do any of you get sexually aroused when viewing art that society labels nude? E.g., David by Michelangelo

Just that Sargent painting.

 

[ElectricBlue]

- Is this figure by John Singer Sargent naked or nude?
https://arthur.io/art/john-singer-sargent/nude-study-of-thomas-e-mckeller

Naked

- Is this figure by Edouard Manet naked or nude?
https://www.manet.org/olympia.jsp

Nude

- Are these people in the photos of a nudist camp naked or nude?
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/nudists.1627078/#post-100401879

Mostly naked, with one or two provocative minxes = knowingly sexual = nude

- Do any of you get sexually aroused when viewing art that society labels nude? E.g., David by Michelangelo

With that coy little cock, hardly . The Sargent painting is far more sexual, there's no hiding the artist's intent (or inclination, at that particular moment). But then, this is the same artist who shocked with Portrait of Madam X, with her provocative shoulder. In that painting, even dressed, she's exquisitely nude (in my parlance).