now that's interesting...

[butters]

or not, depending on your p.o.v but

the country in europe with the best school results is Finland, and they have ZERO testing of students till they are 18

now i'm not presuming that a lack of testing is solely responsible for those reslts, but it makes their model of education one worth looking at very very closely.

 

[pete]

they fudged the results

 

[pete]

they wait until 18? so does that mean they only test at university entry?

raises a lot of questions

 

[butters]

they fudged the results

fudge? chocolate fudge? whisky fudge? tell me of this fudge

 

[butters]

they wait until 18? so does that mean they only test at university entry?

raises a lot of questions

this, from Wiki - damn, sounds a really good system overall and the kind of school ssystem the UK needs right now:

Education in Finland is an education system with no tuition fees and with fully subsidised meals served to full-time students. The present Finnish education system consists of daycare programs (for babies and toddlers) and a one-year "pre-school" (or kindergarten for six-year-olds); a nine-year compulsory basic comprehensive school (starting at age seven and ending at the age of fifteen); post-compulsory secondary general academic and vocational education; higher education (University and University of Applied Sciences); and adult (lifelong, continuing) education. The Finnish strategy for achieving equality and excellence in education has been based on constructing a publicly funded comprehensive school system without selecting, tracking, or streaming students during their common basic education.[3] Part of the strategy has been to spread the school network so that pupils have a school near their homes whenever possible or, if this is not feasible, e.g. in rural areas, to provide free transportation to more widely dispersed schools. Inclusive special education within the classroom and instructional efforts to minimize low achievement are also typical of Nordic educational systems.[3]

After their nine-year basic education in a comprehensive school, students at the age of 16 may choose to continue their secondary education in either an academic track (lukio) or a vocational track (ammattikoulu), both of which usually take three years and give a qualification to continue to tertiary education. Tertiary education is divided into university and polytechnic (ammattikorkeakoulu, also known as "university of applied sciences") systems.

 

[butters]

clearly they are getting it right

 

[Miasorrow]

clearly they are getting it right

I am a very big fan of Finland's educational system and even though it might prove difficult to be adapted in most European countries, it is essential that we learn from it.
As Oscar Wilde cleverly pointed out "Schools should be the most beautiful place in every town and village-so beautiful that the punishment for undutiful children should be barred from going to school the following day".

 

[Lancecastor]

Educational mainstreaming brings average performance up but offers nothing to the top 15%.

Finnish retards are as a result some of the nicest semi normal retards youll ever meet.

Socialism versus capitalism.

 

[Aella_]

Karpov and Kasparov were russian.
As to literature and other arts - who on Earth reads Finnish literature?

 

[butters]

I am a very big fan of Finland's educational system and even though it might prove difficult to be adapted in most European countries, it is essential that we learn from it.
As Oscar Wilde cleverly pointed out "Schools should be the most beautiful place in every town and village-so beautiful that the punishment for undutiful children should be barred from going to school the following day".

absolutely

 

[Hard_Rom]

Yay for Finland and Oscar. Those damn Nordics certainly do well in the social aspects of governing.

They even leave their kids outside in the cold. Healthy for you and safe in Nordic countries.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21537988

Daytime temperatures this winter in Stockholm have regularly dropped to -5C (23F) but it's still common to see children left outside by their parents for a sleep in the pram.

Wander through the snowy city and you'll see buggies lined up outside coffee shops while parents sip on lattes inside.

*you would be charged with child endangerment over here*

 

[Lancecastor]

I am a very big fan of Finland's educational system and even though it might prove difficult to be adapted in most European countries, it is essential that we learn from it.
As Oscar Wilde cleverly pointed out "Schools should be the most beautiful place in every town and village-so beautiful that the punishment for undutiful children should be barred from going to school the following day".

The nordic Social Democracies have been putting up great numbers across the board in terms of quality of life, not just in education.

That's about as far as this thread can go; once the americans start posting, you'll be reminded that socialism won't replace capitalism anywhere anytime soon.

But for those annoying picked herring eating pasty skinned ikea types , ya, it works just fine.

Let them think schools are happy places where everyone is the same.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The way experiments work is make all things equal but one variable. So I assume Finland tested schools with and without tests to determine the influence of the no test variable.

In grad school I tested the general welfare of kids residing in trailer parks with and without sanitary waste disposal. No one ever tested the influence of untreated waste. It was conventional wisdom but never tested. My thesis was simple: ecological factors significantly affect fitness.

I don't know but maybe schools without tests spend more time with instruction than test preparation.

 

[Lancecastor]

Testing streams people by ability.

Testing once prior to adulthood is like the movie Divergent, where you are assigned a life.

No thanks.

 

[Aella_]

I don't quite understand the concept of Zero testing.

Yes, we all get the dangers of compulsive "over-testing": the vicious cycle of underperformance linked to low self-esteem, risks of stifling independent thinking and so on.

But if there's no testing , what sort of carrot and stick are they using? I certainly wouldn't have bothered with a lot of things in school, if not for grades and so on.

 

[Wrong Element]

As to literature and other arts - who on Earth reads Finnish literature?

Hey! Marius Imbibes, Marius Imbibes, Part 2, and Marius Sleeps It Off are certifiable classics.


I don't expect the American system of "8 months teaching only what's going to be on the test, followed by the test" to be abandoned any time soon.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Testing is relevant when it measures education goals, say, language and math competence.

Real life is organized around high probability aspects, tests tend to be organized around low probability aspects. Half of our language expressions are made from 50 simple words, most people get thru life with 100-200 words, same as dogs. Few common words are on tests. Few common math problems are on tests.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English
MOST COMMON WORDS

 

[removed9556]

 

[Lancecastor]

Let's talk about Finland's great car companies, internationally sought after consumer goods and their contributions to diplomacy, the arts, etc.

Then in the second thirty seconds we can agree it would be nice if butters moved to Finland.

 

[removed9556]

 

[Hard_Rom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Aeld_tgcs

Edvard Grieg's In the Hall of the Mountain King performed by the Finnish heavy metal band Apocalyptica in Portugal. A Norwegian classical tune on heavy metal cellos.

If your a metal head you listen to Nordic music.

 

[Lancecastor]

So you're saying that Viking stock has a natural propensity towards the collective.

That's rich.

 

[Aella_]

A man who has not read the Kalevala is effectively illiterate.

Lol lol lol he actually believes that other GB posters view him in the same way that he sees himself.

 

[removed9556]

 

[removed9556]