Now that the monthly contests are back...

[lovecraft68]

Now that the monthly contests have been resurrected it has become more painfully obvious than ever that chapter stories have an unfair advantage.

Everyone who has a basic understanding of scoring will tell you Chapter stories have an unfair advantage when it comes to score especially long running ones.

The advantage is that in a chapter series people decide if they like it or not so by 3 or 4 you already see score increases and past that the scores are very high because the only people reading it are ones that like the series, people who were not interested wandered off.

Less trolls more fans that by a certain point are giving automatic five votes

Laurel has done eight months since she has brought them back and 19/24 winners are chapter series one of which is at 50 chapters. So high chapter stories with low votes are rewarded over standalone stories from authors making more of an effort to not write the same thing over and over again.

Of course this has been addressed before and by many regular forum members, but no response. To be honest if its going to continue to be this unfair and we can't have a simple change-how hard is it to just not look at anything with a chapter?-then my vote is put them back in limbo where they were, why should one type of story be rewarded over and over?

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm also going to throw out another question that is a simple yes or no.

Shouldn't winners receive an e-mail that they won? Especially now, these things are 2-3 years old, you think the authors are going to be looking to see if they won anything?

Also keep in mind that the vast majority of authors do not come to the forums and have no idea they won other than a blue W appearing on their page and they might not realize there is money involved with this.

Also a chance some of these people from 3 years ago have wandered off period.

But they have money coming to them and are not being notified, am I the only person that sees this as unfair?

I e-mailed the Sept/Oct winners myself through lit whether any of them claimed their prize who knows. I don't want to see people screwed, but I am not going to do that every month, why should I?

I know of three people who found out too late they won the old monthlies so basically what I am saying is these 24 people who were just announced? I would be amazed if the site pays out to a third of them.

It shouldn't be too much trouble to contact three people for each month announced.

People can weigh in on that as well.

 

[RejectReality]

So high chapter stories with low votes are rewarded over standalone stories from authors making more of an effort to not write the same thing over and over again.

Seriously? This is just low.

The exact same argument can be made for long submissions. They also shed readers who aren't completely invested and likely to score high.

All of your crap-flinging aside, the reason individual chapters shouldn't be included is because they aren't a story. They're part of a story. I'd much rather see chaptered stories only become eligible on the day they're completed, and the criteria used an average of the performance of the entire story.

 

[lovecraft68]

Seriously? This is just low.

The exact same argument can be made for long submissions. They also shed readers who aren't completely invested and likely to score high.

All of your crap-flinging aside, the reason individual chapters shouldn't be included is because they aren't a story. They're part of a story. I'd much rather see chaptered stories only become eligible on the day they're completed, and the criteria used an average of the performance of the entire story.

Seeing I have a 45 chapter series I don't think its low at all to say.

Point is it rewards people who just keep going with one storyline over people who write different material The same series can-and I'm sure has-won multiple times in the monthlies because some of them go on for years. One of the winners was chapters 48-50 who is reading that? 45 people?

And at the end of the day we agree, but you see the need to take a shot even then.

Low my ass.

Low is your former contest manipulation that coincidentally stopped when it was repeatedly brought up on the boards.

Oh, and BTW? Low is awarding prizes and not letting people know they won them.

No comment there though is their toadie?

Fuck, I went out of my way to contact some of these people and I'm low?

I alerted the site that over 200 stories were stolen from here and you know who cared? A few authors who spent their time hunting things down and giving it to Laurel when it should have been her fucking job, in fact that is part of her job seeing the material was stolen from her site.

But I'm low?

Seriously go fuck yourself you cheating sack of shit.

 

[RejectReality]

So, Siblings With Benefits was lazy repetition? Every chapter was more of the same?

Or was it a narrative where the characters were evolving, moving toward an ending?

 

[lovecraft68]

So, Siblings With Benefits was lazy repetition? Every chapter was more of the same?

Or was it a narrative where the characters were evolving, moving toward an ending?

If it won monthly contests it would not have been fair. Period, for the same reasons I stated. Its unfair to stand alone stories.

As for lazy? Unlike you, I don;t give a rats ass what anyone thinks of me, my work, or anything else.

This thread was a waste of time. You key in on an opinion and ignore the sites bullshit, its what you do.

refer to my instructions in my prior post.

 

[RejectReality]

I already answered the question of the thread. I don't think it's fair for a part of a story to be given equal standing with a completed story. I never have, and I've been saying it for years even though the bulk of my work when I first floated the idea was chaptered stories.

I'm taking issue with you once again throwing flack in the air and attacking work you've never read.

 

[TxRad]

Chapters should be judged as a complete story when they are finished and not before. Not for the monthly or for the top lists.

Your poll need

 

[TxRad]

It has been a while since I double posted.

 

[sr71plt]

I would just dump the monthly contest system on the basis of it's so way behind and no one was really paying much attention to it when it was current, so it's sort of a waste of money (to the extent that money's actually be paid out).

One reason it was pretty much irrelevant even when it was going was the chapter business. As already had been noted, a chapter isn't a story, so it really shouldn't be put up against stories, and as increasingly is being known, the system here is set up so that chapter ratings tend to go up as the serial progresses (only those voting it high hanging on in the long haul). Thus, even if the story isn't counted until the last chapter, chaptered stories are favored. Those voters sticking around to the end are mainly those voting fives (and authors seem to understand that now and are playing that game here). It would be fairer not to include it until it's finished and then give it a rating that averages all chapters (still having a bit of favor over single-entry stories, though, because of the higher voters handing on to the end phenomenon.) Taking the time to average again, would be giving it more interest than the users seem to give it.

If it's kept, though, I believe the winners should be notified they have winnings to pick up. As delayed as it is now, not notifying them is more than a bit dishonest and cynical.

 

[JKendallDane]

I'd much rather see chaptered stories only become eligible on the day they're completed, and the criteria used an average of the performance of the entire story.

There is just one major flaw in that idea...it assumes that endings can be easily assumed and/or seen by Laurel. The monthly contest was already bogged down (for whatever reasons) and if you expect her to have to start reviewing in detail each and every chaptered story that hits the top in a month to see if is "a final chapter" AND go through the hassle of vote averaging, then you just might as well kill the idea of a monthly contest right off the bat.

Chapters should be judged as a complete story when they are finished and not before. Not for the monthly or for the top lists.

Are you including the monthly and twelve month top list rankings along with the HOF in that opinion? Besides the mathematical nightmare I mentioned ^above^ it seems kind of harsh to say to authors cranking out a series that their individual chapter efforts aren't worthy of any recognition.

Thus, even if the story isn't counted until the last chapter, chaptered stories are favored. Those voters sticking around to the end are mainly those voting fives (and authors seem to understand that now and are playing that game here).

How is it "playing a game" to break down a 50-75-100,000+ word story into manageable parts for the benefit of the readers?

Ya know...there *IS* a pretty simple solution to all this instead of the "us VS them" attitude when it comes to the monthly contest (if it is indeed being revived from its long coma).

It would only cost the site an additional $25 per month if instead of three monthly winners collecting $150/$100/$75, there would be six winners...three for full, standalone stories and three for the best scoring chapters in a series...with prizes of $100/$50/$25. Sure it's a few less bucks, but none of us are writing for Lit for the money anyway, are we?

 

[RejectReality]

Oh, I'm well aware of the pitfalls around deciding when a story is complete as things stand. There are issues with putting tools in place to automate it as well. I brought up most of them when I made my own thread on this subject years ago.

Even if all that is accomplished and put into action flawlessly, you will immediately see protests against some categories having an unfair advantage. Long stories will be demonized as well.

On and on.

I wouldn't have the slightest issue about halving the prize money and creating two separate categories of winners.

Problem is, you'd have the same sort of complaints you have now about what's a "chapter" on top of rants about category/length being unfair.

It's a no-win situation.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

*Goes back in the kitchen to pop some popcorn and get a beer.*

 

[sr71plt]

It's a no-win situation.

Not if you just discontinue the monthly contest. A simple "The monthly contest is canceled" would do it. It's just one more function of this site that either doesn't work or doesn't have much constructive meaning anymore.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Now that the monthly contests have been resurrected it has become more painfully obvious than ever that chapter stories have an unfair advantage.

Everyone who has a basic understanding of scoring will tell you Chapter stories have an unfair advantage when it comes to score especially long running ones.

I agree with this much, I've seen it in my own ratings, but excluding them from competition is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Should we exclude Sci-Fi/Fantasy stories because it's a high-rating category? Go down that road and we'd have to eliminate everything but LW from the competition. "First chapter only" isn't much better; who can judge how good the ending's going to be from the first chapter?

One option would be to handicap the stories by reader drop-off. For example, say Chapter 1 has 4.50 from 200 votes a month after posting, and Chapter 2 has 4.80 from 150 votes after a month, so 50 voters have dropped out along the way. If you assume the drop-outs would mostly have voted 4s then you can adjust the score by simulating fifty 4s added to the count. That gives an adjusted score for Chapter 2 of (4.80 x 150 + 4.0 x 50)/200 = 4.60. Probably needs some fine-tuning, but something along those lines could be reasonable.

But this is only a partial fix; if somebody posts their 50-page epic as a single chapter then none of these solutions would help, and it still doesn't deal with category biases.

 

[nomoretears00]

I don't have much here now, so I'm not touching the chapter thing. I will say I think winners should be notified. I just happen to be on Lit and saw the announcement. Turns out there were a few M/M authors in that bunch who I'm friends with, so I emailed them.

None of them had a clue.

 

[sr71plt]

One option would be to handicap the stories by reader drop-off. For example, say Chapter 1 has 4.50 from 200 votes a month after posting, and Chapter 2 has 4.80 from 150 votes after a month, so 50 voters have dropped out along the way. If you assume the drop-outs would mostly have voted 4s then you can adjust the score by simulating fifty 4s added to the count. That gives an adjusted score for Chapter 2 of (4.80 x 150 + 4.0 x 50)/200 = 4.60. Probably needs some fine-tuning, but something along those lines could be reasonable.

And who is going to do this? The Web site managers who are two years behind in the monthly contests without having to go through these sorts of somersaults? The Web site managers who can't clean up the nonfunctioning elements of the Web site that already exist?

Just cancel them. They aren't worth the time and expense even when running properly and the Web site managers quite obviously don't have the time to give effort to something far more simple then this proposal.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I wasn't going to weigh on this...

When I first decided to post a story here, it wasn't because of any contest. I wanted to see if there were any who would enjoy the stories I had to tell.

In all the time I've been here, I only entered one contest with no doubt I wouldn't come close to winning, which I didn't. It was an Earth Day story and just happened pop into my head when the contest was announced. I wrote it and submitted. I really didn't care if I won or not.

I write because I like too. I do it for myself. If other like what I do, then I have achieved a small goal of bring a little joy or sorrow, depending on the story, into someones life.

As far as I'm concerned I would say drop the monthly contests, but the site will do what the site wants to.

 

[RoyceConnors]

It shouldn't matter if a story is a stand alone or chaptered, because it's how that chapter did that month. Some chapters do better than others and as such, should be rated individually like stand alone story.

Chaptered story writers could have the same argument and say theirs are longer and more involved and short stories shouldn't be compared against them. We all write what we write because we enjoy doing it that way to tell a story.

It's reader votes that count, so chaptered or stand alone is up to them to decide what's worth voting on. I'm sure there would be quite the uproar with readers that their stories weren't in the running because of discrimination.

 

[Neonurotic]

Just drop the monthly and year end contest altogether. Save the money from prizes for a entirely new contest(s) not yet decided. Literotica has not changed much since I've been around (late 2002), need a revamping in challenges for writers.

 

[walkerlong]

I think all these contests are unfairly biased in favor of people who write well. How are those of us with no talent supposed to compete? I work just as hard as any of the contest winners - even harder maybe. Why should they get all the wealth and fame just because people like their writing better?

 

[sr71plt]

I think all these contests are unfairly biased in favor of people who write well. How are those of us with no talent supposed to compete? I work just as hard as any of the contest winners - even harder maybe. Why should they get all the wealth and fame just because people like their writing better?

au contrare. The voting system here is a sieve for manipulative voting. The unfair bias is toward those who know how to post votes without having them swept away. Good writing isn't all that much of a determinate--for the majority of readers, it comes in behind stroke even. (And there's nothing wrong with that; it's a porn site.)

 

[SamScribble]

I think all these contests are unfairly biased in favor of people who write well. How are those of us with no talent supposed to compete? I work just as hard as any of the contest winners - even harder maybe. Why should they get all the wealth and fame just because people like their writing better?

When I see the scores that some of the barely literate trash attracts on Lit, I am not sure that you are right.

And if you are talking only about contest entries, then of course the best-written should be right up there. It is writing contest, not a work-out contest.

 

[robertreams]

FYI: Chapter stories are not the same old thing over and over. One of my series, Men In Arms, involves extensive research and many pains to write. It became a series by demand from my readers, who love the story of the eveolving lives and loves of the two young protagonists amid the backdrop of the American Civil War. Itis a labor of love, but believe me, it is a labor.

Perhaps chapter 27 of someone's work really is better than the single chapter of your work. Why can't it stand for itself. By the way, I noticed this is not one of the choices in your survey, therefore it is a biased survey.

Also, does it not make sense that an author who has won prizes and contests should win more? Your argument is like saying everyone who plays little league should get a trophy.

 

[robertreams]

I think all these contests are unfairly biased in favor of people who write well. How are those of us with no talent supposed to compete? I work just as hard as any of the contest winners - even harder maybe. Why should they get all the wealth and fame just because people like their writing better?

lol, I love your answer, walkerlong and I agree totally!