Normal?

[Quint]

.............

 

[Kailey_86]

See but to me, taking one intriguing passage from the Bible and saying "Look! It says it right there!" is just like reading the horoscope and taking every word as if it were written just for you. Of course it fits, it's a vague statement taken out of historical, social, and personal context.

And for the record, a financial concern will be resolved soon. A friend will confide in you; be prepared to listen. Tonight: make it count.

That's a good point. Hmmm...

 

[CutieMouse]

And for the record, a financial concern will be resolved soon. A friend will confide in you; be prepared to listen. Tonight: make it count.

You so rock... especially for the financial thing.

 

[JMohegan]

That's definately not what I was trying to do. I don't want people imposing their beliefs on others either.

That's good to know. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Quint]

.............

 

[kajiraahava]

I believe that, to most, D/s is out of the norm. Mainstream sex and vanilla relationships are viewed as normal. Does anyone agree with me when I say that socieaty has a misconception about what's "normal"? I strongly believe that a relationship, whether it be friend or partner, should be built on comitment, honesty, communication and trust. This seems to be the core of D/s relationships.

In addition to this, men are more stronger and more dominant and women are more nurturing and detail oriented by nature. We are built this way. Therefore, women are more suited to do household errands and take care of her partner and men are better suited for protecting and leading. The D/s lifestyle seems natural. Kink or BDSM adds another level of submission and adds a little spice, keeping things fun and interesting.

There are some strong opinions going on in here so I hope I don't offend. It makes me more than a little bit nervous. I'm just going to dive in. This is kinda cool discussion.

Normal? What IS normal? Who makes normal? What if people don't speak up and discuss their kinks? Does this mean that they don't exist? I think not

Misconception is brought about by ignorance. I use the word ignorance based on the definition that says it is "lack of knowledge". Maybe if those who are ignorant took time to open their eyes and learn a bit, then they could voice an educated opinion. Without knowledge, judgement and normal can't exist correctly.

The stuff about men, women, strength, and weakness, again is brought about by a mechanical ignorance. Take BDSM out and you see stay-at-home dads, with the woman being the bread-winner. So what if it's not more common - that doesn't make it abnormal.

Commonalities, statistics, and the like don't define the term "normal" to me. They are just numbers.

Besides if you subscribe to the "normal" definition that is based on mere speculation of what people think, how could there ever be Dommes, male subs, gays with subs, and all that?

 

[kajiraahava]

double post, sorry

 

[O'Mac]

My opinion is that Hooper is correct. It is nonsensical to project societal expectations from biblical times to the present day.

As an additional point on the subject of respect, I'll note that I have no respect whatsoever for efforts to impose one's own religious beliefs on others. Perhaps that was not your intent in quoting Ephesians as evidence of the way "everyone should be living." But that's the way it read to me.

I fail to see how the expression of one's beliefs and a legitimate discussion of faith is the same as an attempt to convert others to share those beliefs. Nobody is busting out any holy text and yelling at you to repent here, are they? I honestly don't think the intent of the post was to use scripture as evidence of a proper way to live.

 

[JMohegan]

I fail to see how the expression of one's beliefs and a legitimate discussion of faith is the same as an attempt to convert others to share those beliefs. Nobody is busting out any holy text and yelling at you to repent here, are they? I honestly don't think the intent of the post was to use scripture as evidence of a proper way to live.

I did not read the opening post as an attempt to convert others. I initially read it as a claim that religious interpretation of the Bible is evidence of appropriate behavior for all human beings.

Post #1:

I hate to bring religion into this but the bible states "Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything" (Ephesians 4:6). Am I wrong to believe that the D/s lifestyle is what everyone should be living and that the vanilla life is not normal.

If "practicing Christians" had been substituted for "everyone", then I never would have questioned the reference to Ephesians in her post.

In response to my comments, Kailey clarified in post 50, stating:

I don't want people imposing their beliefs on others either. For those who are Christian though, this would be something to ponder.

No problem. Others can take the debate from there if they wish to do so.

It's none of my business what practicing Christians do in their personal lives, and not my place to discuss their interpretation of the Bible...... as long as they apply it only to themselves.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I have to say this even though I know what is going to happen

I struggled with a bunch of things for a long time and a priest was the person I went to to sort it all out.
I have read many bible passages and wanted to use them to justify "me".
They said things that touched home and made me feel that I wasn't a freak after all because the bible says I am supposed to be this way.
What I learned...

Well I learned a lot of things but mostly I learned that I am me because I am me, not because the bible said so.

God doesn't see you as normal or abnormal and I am in fact not a freak.

Being submissive to men (or women) does not bring you closer to God.

My lifestyle might be frowned upon by the holy rollers but I am what I am because God made me this way.

No one has a right to frown on me because that in itself is a sin.

A confession of sin should not be an apology for who I am... it is not meant to be scary or make you feel bad, it is meant to show you it is OK to sin (whatever that may mean to you) and God always...always forgives.

So after all the background and rambling, back to the subject.
My religion (to me) is not about who I am or what I do or what the bible says or what others think... it is about my relationship with God, which is a private thing between Him and i...as it should be.

 

[Kailey_86]

Normal? What IS normal? Who makes normal? What if people don't speak up and discuss their kinks? Does this mean that they don't exist? I think not

I completely agree with you. There is no "normal." I think that by realizing what I like and what I want (D/s, BDSM, and the like) and feeling societal pressures to be what they call "normal" made me try to justify, or maybe you can even say defend, my feelings and thoughts. Posting this thread and hearing what people had to say has definately made me feel more comfortable with myself and with the idea of me being a sub. It's ok for me to be this because I am ok with it. I swear, people have been trying to tell me this for years. I need to wake up and smell the coffee. Sometimes it just takes a good beating....or several in my case.

 

[graceanne]

I have to say this even though I know what is going to happen

I struggled with a bunch of things for a long time and a priest was the person I went to to sort it all out.
I have read many bible passages and wanted to use them to justify "me".
They said things that touched home and made me feel that I wasn't a freak after all because the bible says I am supposed to be this way.
What I learned...

Well I learned a lot of things but mostly I learned that I am me because I am me, not because the bible said so.

God doesn't see you as normal or abnormal and I am in fact not a freak.

Being submissive to men (or women) does not bring you closer to God.

My lifestyle might be frowned upon by the holy rollers but I am what I am because God made me this way.

No one has a right to frown on me because that in itself is a sin.

A confession of sin should not be an apology for who I am... it is not meant to be scary or make you feel bad, it is meant to show you it is OK to sin (whatever that may mean to you) and God always...always forgives.

So after all the background and rambling, back to the subject.
My religion (to me) is not about who I am or what I do or what the bible says or what others think... it is about my relationship with God, which is a private thing between Him and i...as it should be.

Very well put.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Very well put.

but it killed the thread *sigh*

 

[CutieMouse]

but it killed the thread *sigh*

It didn't kill the thread.

Thank you for your post, KC.

 

[BiBunny]

Don´t mind us, you will get to know the things which are likely to generate spirited debates here, and that is not all bad as it is a discussion board. You will find many who support what you have pondered on, though not so much here as they do not find we support the weak, less intelligent sub theory well and leave in disgust. I have been on another site and been chastised for not literally bowing to every male on the board, holding their word as gospel, and shock of all shocks, daring to disagree with things male dominants said. As you will probably get to know, I am not backward in coming forward if I have something to say (slave or not) and just because someone on a bulletin board says they are a Dominant doesn´t prove to me it is so, and they certainly are not my Dominant so I do not have an obligation to kneel at their virtual feet awaiting their pearls of wisdom (translated = BS). Fortunately I found someone who wanted a thinking slave who was not afraid to take on responsibility and use their brain.

Catalina

I was nodding my head as I read this entire post, but I especially can relate to the last line. That stupid, doormat sub idea always makes me angry (no matter who I encounter it in). If I decided one day that I was going to stop thinking for myself and making most of my own day-to-day decisions, Master would kick me to the curb so fast it'd make my head spin.

Ok, I have nothing constructive to add at this point, but I'll probably be back later.

 

[Etoile]

I struggled with a bunch of things for a long time and a priest was the person I went to to sort it all out.
I have read many bible passages and wanted to use them to justify "me".
They said things that touched home and made me feel that I wasn't a freak after all because the bible says I am supposed to be this way.

So many people twist the Bible to make it say what they want to say. Yes, homosexuality is bad. No, homosexuality isn't bad. On and on! My feeling is that if it works for an individual, and doesn't affect others, it's okay to interpret the Bible however one sees fit. But when it comes to imposing it on others - well, we've been through that.

 

[O'Mac]

So many people twist the Bible to make it say what they want to say. Yes, homosexuality is bad. No, homosexuality isn't bad. On and on! My feeling is that if it works for an individual, and doesn't affect others, it's okay to interpret the Bible however one sees fit. But when it comes to imposing it on others - well, we've been through that.

Exactly. As some would not be aware, or may not like to admit, there are moderates, radicals, and conservatives for each faith in itself. It's never a case where everyone simply agrees on one interpretation of a divine message and that's that. Why else would we have hundreds of seperate Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox denominations if we all agreed on the same principles? For the record, I don't think that's neccesarily a bad thing either, so long as the initial message itself is not altered to fit one's particular point of view.

Oh, and JMohegan, sorry if it sounded like I was jumping down your throat. I see what you were trying to say now. It's all good.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Besides if you subscribe to the "normal" definition that is based on mere speculation of what people think, how could there ever be Dommes, male subs, gays with subs, and all that?

As I read this the thought came to me that there can be because nature cannot be dictated to. And human nature certainly cannot be dictated to because of free will. When that comes into play, people will do what they please, and so you get a Domme like Me who believes she knows what is best for her.

Eb

 

[submissiveknight]

Normal, is being tied down,clipped,whipped, and fucked up the ass? It is for me how about you? What I mean is what may be normal for me may not be normal for you!!! This thread has the capability of getting deep. I've never been much of a normalist compared to other people that's for sure lol. What does gender have to do with anything anyway? I'm a male strong,support my family,I do housework, cook, basically serve my Mistress. Before we ever started D/s We had quite above normal vanilla sex-life. We now have probally a below normal BDSM sex-life. For the reason that we have only touched on certain aspects of the lifestyle. Experimentation is still taking place my Princess is still learning Her likes and dislikes and I'm certain that this will be taking place for sometime to come. I'll probally want to add to this in the future but I'm kind of low on time and probally getting a little off track but I hope You all get the jest of what I'm implying