None so Blind!

[Pyper]

And Todd...nowhere does it say a man should die for his wife! You just made that up right on the spot! And NO! I would rather die than live submissively my entire life! As Patrick Henry, one of our great agnostic founding fathers said, "Give me liberty, or give me death!"

 

[Todd]

AGain I quoted it earlier you must of skipped it

Ephesians 4

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


How did christ give him self for the church? Does dieng on the cross sound familiar? How are husbands to love thier wives? As Chirst did for the church.

 

[DarkAngel]

Stop quoting the boring book, what it says there is what humans have written... Don't you get it yet... HUMANS wrote the dam thing

Humns wrote history.... Humans wrote the dam math test I hav to do in a week... humans wrote the bio-chem test I have to write... But does that mean everything is right... because if it does then... no one should have any creative ideas... because that would lead into tempation...

http://christlove.topcities.com/christian/theology/index.html

on the topic to lazy to copy and paste [/B]

Yup just proves my point.... everyone thinks that everything is done by a god. And totally forget the human behind the pen.

 

[DarkAngel]

AGain I quoted it earlier you must of skipped it

Ephesians 4

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


How did christ give him self for the church? Does dieng on the cross sound familiar? How are husbands to love thier wives? As Chirst did for the church.

He should have stayed away for that thing it looked like it hurt...

 

[Todd]

Stop quoting the boring book, what it says there is what humans have written... Don't you get it yet... HUMANS wrote the dam thing

Humns wrote history.... Humans wrote the dam math test I hav to do in a week... humans wrote the bio-chem test I have to write... But does that mean everything is right... because if it does then... no one should have any creative ideas... because that would lead into tempation...

http://christlove.topcities.com/christian/theology/index.html

on the topic to lazy to copy and paste

Yup just proves my point.... everyone thinks that everything is done by a god. And totally forget the human behind the pen. [/B]

then you diddnt read any of what I wrote in that series.

 

[DarkAngel]

What about your different theology's out there. Well you missed alot... You onlyt focused on the ones to do with the church... about why theology's are needed... again only the ones that are listed... I have taken so many god dam theology courses that I am sick of hearing them...

Everything you have has to do with the church ande nothing else....


Hence my point proven... The weak minded need gods and demons to live. Where the strong just need there own mind to live.

 

[DarkAngel]

http://christlove.topcities.com/christian/theology/bibliology/12.htm

And this one which is the one your referring to I think, makes my point... Todd... the athoer stuff in it... is just strenghting my point... the deads sea scrolls writtne by humans... sure they are old... but so is a lot of history... how about the grail..

 

[Countess DeWinter]

Okay, I'm home

What happened to civilized debate? Do we have to resort to name calling?

If there is no God, DA, then eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die. That's pretty much all we know for certain right now, right? After we die, we'll see who's right. I'm fairly certain of the hand I'm holding, to phrase it in poker terms. If you're right, I'm just denying myself all the hangovers and diseases a completely debauched life will get me. If I'm right, you'd better pack some sunscreen.

 

[DarkAngel]

Dam hit the worng button...


I know what you are trying to say Todd.... This debate could go on to the end of time... with counter answers and questions. But what I am trying to say... and what you need to understand(one who is born again which is the worst of all because they take things to heart and not to head) Man made god, and man made his word, man made his temples/churchs... Man can destroy them...

Sorry ladies... I mean Humans.....

 

[Todd]

Okay, I'm home

What happened to civilized debate? Do we have to resort to name calling?

I'm Sorry I didn't think I did call names

 

[DarkAngel]

Okay, I'm home

What happened to civilized debate? Do we have to resort to name calling?

If there is no God, DA, then eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die. That's pretty much all we know for certain right now, right? After we die, we'll see who's right. I'm fairly certain of the hand I'm holding, to phrase it in poker terms. If you're right, I'm just denying myself all the hangovers and diseases a completely debauched life will get me. If I'm right, you'd better pack some sunscreen.

Hey, I am going to live my life to its fullest... and if that does not please him... then if there is a hell I am going to it where I will be Welcomed...

 

[DarkAngel]

Okay, I'm home

What happened to civilized debate? Do we have to resort to name calling?

I'm Sorry I didn't think I did call names

Name calling...

Todd is A Toad... ehhee

 

[Todd]

Dark Angel,

If I am wrong what have I wasted but 70-80 years of life.

If you are wrong what is wasted but eternity beyond.

 

[DarkAngel]

Yeah, but whos 70 - 80 years will be better... yours or mine

 

[Todd]

lets see, I am not posinongin my liver with alcohol, i am not poisoning my lungs with tobacco, i am not poisoning my penis with STD's, I am not posioning my brain with narcotics.

Once I get my thyroid under control, I will be doing all kinds of the fun things I always have.

 

[genderbender]

Re: Now about the worthlessness thing...

...You have to be able to convince them that there is something wrong with them, that they are missing something. You have to tell them that, by themselves, they can never succeed in the long run, because they are just not good enough. They are worthless, and the only thing that can save them is God. It's a clever strategy, but a devious one, in my opinion.

Pyper, you seem to be hooked into this thread. I'm not certain whether you just love a good fight or you need somehow to defend your atheism. If you're defending your stance as an atheist I'd have to wonder about how secure you are in your beliefs. You know the bible, no doubt having arrived where you are though the experience of being a Christian, or some such thing. That's certainly a worthwhile exercise. Clearly the people who are doing battle with you on this thread are feeling pretty confident in their beliefs. I say, good for them. I do get a little nervous when I hear only those who've accepted Christ as their lord and savior will enter the kingdom of heaven and therefore they are obliged to let all the faithless know the truth. That plays well among the evangelical Christians, but suggests little more than hubris to me.

What I wanted to mention to you, however, is a book that is popular in 12 step programs entitled, The Spirituality of Imperfection. It takes the stance that we humans are all imperfect, that the spiritual journey is one of coming to terms with how we continually stumble. I imagine Christians would say that is what forgiveness is all about and that stumbling represents our sins. I'm not offended by that language and I'm all for supporting people in coming to terms with how they struggle with life. I get nervous around self righteousness, finger pointing rather than a gentle embrace. I agree with you that the whole fall and redemption trip of the Christian church is a setup. Biblical scholars doubt the entire presentation of the crucifixion and ressurection, which are potent symbols for redemption. In the Catholic Church there is a huge debate over Creationism which has been proposed as an alternative to the fall/redemption story. Its useful to understand, as your comments suggest, that by holding the key to redemption, the church has some power it wouldn't otherwise have. There's little doubt that is how this story was added to the gospels during those few hundred years of foment after Jesus died.

Hope you're having fun, otherwise this isn't worth doing at all since no one is going to convince anyone of anything.

 

[DarkAngel]

lets see, I am not posinongin my liver with alcohol, i am not poisoning my lungs with tobacco, i am not poisoning my penis with STD's, I am not posioning my brain with narcotics.

Once I get my thyroid under control, I will be doing all kinds of the fun things I always have.

Uhm... I don't have any STD's and I stopped smoking... the drugs are kool...

But do you mopuntain climb, about ski every fucking winter... sky dive... scub, deep sea fishing... come on tell me. Do you own your own company... Do you get up in teh morning and say... uhm... to work r to go to the mountains and spend half the day hiking up a hill wiht no real stop in mind... you are just doing it because YOU FUCKING CAN...


And just beause a thyroid is out of wack does not stop you from doing anything... that is a lame excuse... The thyroid main function is weight control... if you move around you can help it out... And how do I know this... I am gettnga Fucking Gentical Engineering Degree...

Todd, self pitty is the worst thing in the world.... The best thing is to go out and do something... Run ski, hell go out to the ocean and swim... do something besides sitting...



[Edited by DarkAngel on 03-13-2001 at 02:28 PM]

 

[Countess DeWinter]

Okay, I'm home

What happened to civilized debate? Do we have to resort to name calling?

I'm Sorry I didn't think I did call names

wasn't referring to you, sweetheart.

 

[Countess DeWinter]

Yeah, but whos 70 - 80 years will be better... yours or mine

How can you measure that? Really? I'm happy. I've been a Christian since 1974. I've stumbled many times, but I'm happy with my life where it is. The things you described don't sound like fun to me. It's relative.

 

[DarkAngel]

True, but... O I quit....

I should have listened to my Math Prof.... Don't argue with a wall for a wall only listens but does not take in...

 

[Countess DeWinter]

Did you really expect to change someone's mind?

Did you think that Todd was going to suddenly throw his faith to the wind and start climbing mountains? I've enjoyed this debate, myself. I feel that I'd stood up for my faith. I feel pretty good about it, too. And except for referring to those who do not believe as you do walls and weak minded, you should be commended for standing up for your beliefs as well.

 

[Todd]

Uhm... I don't have any STD's and I stopped smoking... the drugs are kool...

But do you mopuntain climb, about ski every fucking winter... sky dive... scub, deep sea fishing... come on tell me. Do you own your own company... Do you get up in teh morning and say... uhm... to work r to go to the mountains and spend half the day hiking up a hill wiht no real stop in mind... you are just doing it because YOU FUCKING CAN...

Yes I mountian CLimb and rock climb and repel. Yes I ski in the winter though I spend more time on my head and but than I do on the skis, same with the snow board. Both usuall once a week. SKy dove three timestwice clothed once naked. DOn't do Scuba dive since a nasty swim accident , the scuba gogles give me a clasterphobic feeling. Deep sea fish 4 or 5 times a summer in the Atlantic Ocean. Making my own with Webdesign in my local community polus work for myself. I choose when and where and how often I work. I love to go hiking in the back woods and mounatins range and getting lost until some finds me.

And just beause a thyroid is out of wack does not stop you from doing anything... that is a lame excuse... The thyroid main function is weight control... if you move around you can help it out... And how do I know this... I
am gettnga Fucking Gentical Engineering Degree...

The thyroids main thing its doing right now is playing with my damned emotion grid but soon and very soon I have it back in balance. so I don't be crying over those darned waltons. The wieght thing i got that mastered

Todd, self pitty is the worst thing in the world.... The best thing is to go out and do something... Run ski, hell go out to the ocean and swim... do something besides sitting...

AND Every summer I am atleast 5 -8 hours a days biking either road, trail or mountain.

[Edited by DarkAngel on 03-13-2001 at 02:28 PM] [/B]

 

[Thumper]

Peace!

Damnit! Or I start bustin' heads!

Eternal damnation was created by man. It was used to cow the people into submission to the church and the aristocracy/nobility in the Dark Ages. Think about it. What better way to control the populace. The church affirms the divine right of the monarchy and the monarchy rewardsthe church with privilege and wealth. "Listen to and obey the King because he is chosen by God to rule. If you fail in this then you will suffer eternal damnation for defying the King...and God."

Love the Lord with all thine heart and soul and etc....

Yep and how do we do this?

By loving each other! It is difficult to love an abstract idea but not difficult to love a person.

You are not a God DA....you cannot create life, only the vessel it inhabits...and you cannot destroy life. Again, only the vessel it inhabits...the soul lives on.

(this must be some kinda record, six pages and no flirting)

 

[Laurel]

If there is no God, DA, then eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die. That's pretty much all we know for certain right now, right?

I'm not so sure. Even if there isn't a god, there are still innumerable reasons to treat other people with kindness and to do our best to make the world a better place. Fear fire & brimstone, though effective are not the only motivators. Instead of living in hopes of an afterlife, some live to learn as much as we can, and to pass our learning along to others. To do our best to improve our surroundings. Atheism is not necessarily hedonism.

There are many misconceptions about atheism, so I'll try to clear up a few. All atheism is, is the lack of a belief in a god or gods. That's the entire definition. A-Theism, as opposed to Theism. It is not the DISbelief in a god or gods. That's an important distinction. It is also not a church. The only thing that atheists have in common is this lack of belief. They do not share moral values or ideals. They come to atheism from a wide range of backgrounds and paths. Atheists are not amoral, they just garner their morality from other sources. The Golden Rule is found in many religions because it is a rational way for people to behave in a civilized society.

Atheism is not a mental disorder any more than Christianity or Judaism is a mental disorder. It is not necessarily pessimistic either. It is simply another way of viewing life and the world.

Personally, I find the complexity of nature and the universe to be as awe-inspiring as a Christian finds the love of God to be. Birth, growth, love...these are all beautiful things, no matter what philosophical lens you choose to view them through. I do my best to treat other beings - human and otherwise - with as much kindness as I can. I do my best to respect the beliefs of others, as I'm acutely aware that I do not have all the answers. Before I die, I want to experience as much as I can of this big beautiful world, and pass my experiences along in the form of conversations to friends, posts on BB's, and other forms of self-expression. That's how I see life on Earth - as a brief chance to experience and learn, and to pass that learning and experience along for the next guy or gal.

The biggest 'sin' IMHO is intolerance. While we may not believe that others are following the right path, we must respect their right to follow it. We have to get it through our thick heads that we are human, and that none of us have the monopoly on Truth.

If we could take down the walls of self-righteousness that keep us from truly understanding each other, we could learn a great deal from one another. If we could actually listen to each other in these debates - be them political, philosophical, or otherwise - we'd all be one step closer to the Truth. At least, that's how I see it. But I could be wrong.

 

[DarkAngel]

And all I have to saw is.... meow...


Well this debate was fun but now I need some more excite meant.... time to go to the clubs..... hahahahahaah....


O and I wonder did Mary ever give Joe a Blow Job... Now theres a question that needs answering...