Non-con question

[Darkniciad]

Yep, I've written some pretty black sexual content in my stories when it had a point to the greater story. Zoraster is repeatedly, sadistically raped by his half-sister in Ebon Genesis. Years later, he's perpetrating the same sort of twisted things on Danica. I've had victims that didn't survive in a few of my tales as well. Any sex-related death happens "off camera" though. Otherwise, it hits the snuff prohibition.

Rejections assumed to be for rape are probably for one of the other prohibitions. I have little doubt that WH's criteria of rape fantasy versus rapist fantasy will weigh on the decision about whether something crosses one of those prohibitions, or whether that one missing comma is enough for a rejection, though.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Even the snuff part is a soft rule, a guideline if you will. One that I have ran right past before. These are the rules. All of them.

"No sexual activity involving bestiality (you can write stories about supernatural beasts like ghosts, unicorns, werewolves, etc.) or underage persons will be considered. For the purposes of this site, the minimum legal age is 18. This site does not publish stories, articles, essays, or other material supporting, encouraging, or defending child abuse and/or exploitation. "

Those are the only rules here. No animals, no children. Anything else goes. ANYTHING. The editors have the ability to drop whatever they want but it is so rarely used. As I pointed out I've had two stories get rejected presumably for being too graphic. One was a zombie rape scene where a girl was being raped, killed and eaten simotaneously. The other was presumably rejected based on future violence because I claimed it was in line with Dolcett Comics but the first chapter was just a pair of lesbians camped out (I later changed the title, removed the warning and resent it and it got through no problems.)

 

[Safe_Bet]

My question to the prior posters is: why don't you respect Laurel's intent as well as the "letter of the law" when it comes to these stories? In the FAQ you get referred to this posting:

Was there excessive violence, snuff, or abuse of characters in your story?
Your story was too extreme for our guidelines. These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much". Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon. If your story is rejected for this, feel free to send the story back with a polite request for an explanation and we will tell you why it was rejected. If you disagree with our assessment, you are more than welcome to publish your story elsewhere rather than alter it to our guidelines. We respect your rights as authors to write on whatever you like, however you like.

I think this makes it VERY clear that the owners of this site do NOT want snuff or violent rape stories to be posted. You might be able to "squeak" a story through by it being "over looked" or if it is marginally acceptable, but why? Do as suggested and post it on one of the other sites that welcome this kind of story. Laurel and Manu have given us a wonderful opportunity to display our work to thousands and thousands of readers. We should be thanking them for that, not trying how to circumvent their wishes.

BTW, before you go off on me, I do exactly as I have suggested. I have dozens of stories on other sites that don't meet the acceptance criteria here. However, rather than trying to work the system and get them accepted, I abide by Laurel's "intent" and post them elsewhere.

 

[Spaffle]

A question from a newbie, please: I just wrote a story in which a woman is ravished against her will, but, for reasons made clear, submits. (The matter of possible enjoyment is left up to the reader.) If it makes any difference, the ravisher is a former boyfriend, and it is only "forcible rape" by the strictest definition. Should I worry that this will violate some rule? If so, where is the line between "non-consent" and "rape" delineated, other than in mind control stories? I am flummoxed.

 

[JackLuis]

BTW, before you go off on me, I do exactly as I have suggested. I have dozens of stories on other sites that don't meet the acceptance criteria here. However, rather than trying to work the system and get them accepted, I abide by Laurel's "intent" and post them elsewhere.

I for one applaud your restraint.
I want a nice hot moma and a little cheer when I read on Lit.
Loving Wives is gross enough sometimes to make me switch off and I don't really like Non-Consent stuff much.
Of course that is just MHO and I guess there must be people who like harder fare so Let 'em, I say.

 

[Darkniciad]

Was there excessive violence, snuff, or abuse of characters in your story?
Your story was too extreme for our guidelines. These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much". Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon. If your story is rejected for this, feel free to send the story back with a polite request for an explanation and we will tell you why it was rejected. If you disagree with our assessment, you are more than welcome to publish your story elsewhere rather than alter it to our guidelines. We respect your rights as authors to write on whatever you like, however you like.

That's what I was hoping to see. I knew I'd seen it before, but couldn't remember where. That's where the anti-snuff and excessive violence prohibition comes in.

For my part, those stories where I've put in something that I thought could trigger a rejection, I left a moderator note actually pointing it out, rather than trying to slip it through. Mainly because I fight hard to tell the story I want to tell within the guidelines of Lit, and don't want a quick read ( necessary with the number of stories ) to get the wrong impression of a scene. Pointing it out makes sure that the part in question is read carefully, so I assume that mine have all fit within acceptable ranges.

Even so, I have some that are only posted elsewhere, because I couldn't craft them to work within Lit's rules, and didn't even try to submit them here.

 

[cloudy]

I think this makes it VERY clear that the owners of this site do NOT want snuff or violent rape stories to be posted. You might be able to "squeak" a story through by it being "over looked" or if it is marginally acceptable, but why? Do as suggested and post it on one of the other sites that welcome this kind of story. Laurel and Manu have given us a wonderful opportunity to display our work to thousands and thousands of readers. We should be thanking them for that, not trying how to circumvent their wishes.

My feelings exactly. I think it's more a little stupid and selfish to be trying to find ways to "slip" a story past them.

 

[Weird Harold]

A question from a newbie, please: I just wrote a story in which a woman is ravished against her will, but, for reasons made clear, submits. (The matter of possible enjoyment is left up to the reader.) If it makes any difference, the ravisher is a former boyfriend, and it is only "forcible rape" by the strictest definition. Should I worry that this will violate some rule? If so, where is the line between "non-consent" and "rape" delineated, other than in mind control stories? I am flummoxed.

Does your rapist get off on the power-trip or the sex? Does your story focus on the force or on the sex?

Rape fantasies are about taking or giving up control. Rapist fantasies are about hurting people with sex.

 

[Spaffle]

Does your rapist get off on the power-trip or the sex? Does your story focus on the force or on the sex?

Rape fantasies are about taking or giving up control. Rapist fantasies are about hurting people with sex.

I'm aware of that. In this case, it's not power so much as revenge. But, in a way, the bad guy is the least important character in the story, and the least-developed. I won't say more; the thing will stand or fall on its own merits. But thank you for your comments!

 

[slyc_willie]

My question to the prior posters is: why don't you respect Laurel's intent as well as the "letter of the law" when it comes to these stories?

Because of this line: "These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much"."

I would really hesitate to say that anyone who submits a story to non-con is trying to get something by Laurel. What is offensive or severe for one person could be middle of the road for another. If Laurel didn't want to deal with the range of stories that would be submitted to the category, she wouldn't have included that category in the first place.

 

[cloudy]

Because of this line: "These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much"."

I would really hesitate to say that anyone who submits a story to non-con is trying to get something by Laurel. What is offensive or severe for one person could be middle of the road for another. If Laurel didn't want to deal with the range of stories that would be submitted to the category, she wouldn't have included that category in the first place.

This is what Safe_Bet and I are referring to:

Hell if you read enough stories around here the child rule can be circumvented by simply neglecting to make it too blatant that the person is a child. I'm waiting for someone to really test the animal rule. I mean according to the rules a Unicorn qualifies as a magical animal and thus isn't an animal and thus is allowed. It's a horse. . .with a horn on it's head. I want to see some one try to push that past the censors just to see how it goes.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Because of this line: "These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much"."

I would really hesitate to say that anyone who submits a story to non-con is trying to get something by Laurel. What is offensive or severe for one person could be middle of the road for another. If Laurel didn't want to deal with the range of stories that would be submitted to the category, she wouldn't have included that category in the first place.

I don't know Slyc, but when I read comments like

"Even the snuff part is a soft rule, a guideline if you will. One that I have ran right past before."

That sure doesn't seem to be trying to comply with the intent of the guidance we have been given. Additionally, the rest of that quote does explain how be base their decisions.

Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon.

 

[slyc_willie]

This is what Safe_Bet and I are referring to:

I figured that. I was just taking exception to the blanket statement in her post.

As for Sean's stories, obviously, he likes to test the boundaries. No harm in that. I don't doubt that there is an element in the readership out there that is looking for hard, raw rape stories. I'm not going to write them for the sake of titillation, but I have written a couple of scenes in some of my stories in which the sex was brutal, the rapist unapologetic (at the time), and there was no enjoyment whatsoever in the victim. But I felt it was an integral part of the story, and it would have been a cop-out to describe the sex when it was consensual, then fade to black when it was not.

With all that said, and I'm sure you'd agree, Cloudy, Sean has all the right in the world to push the envelope until it bursts. We may not like the genre, but it's there for a reason: there are readers who do.

 

[cloudy]

With all that said, and I'm sure you'd agree, Cloudy, Sean has all the right in the world to push the envelope until it bursts. We may not like the genre, but it's there for a reason: there are readers who do.

He certainly has that right, but not here at Lit - Laurel and Manu have already said what they will and will not accept, and that is their right.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree. I don't think there's anything right about trying to "slip things past" Laurel and Manu.

 

[slyc_willie]

I don't know Slyc, but when I read comments like

That sure doesn't seem to be trying to comply with the intent of the guidance we have been given. Additionally, the rest of that quote does explain how be base their decisions.

Good point, of course. Non-con stories are always going to be a picky subject because of their nature. I'm sure Laurel wrestles with even having the category in the first place.

He certainly has that right, but not here at Lit - Laurel and Manu have already said what they will and will not accept, and that is their right.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree. I don't think there's anything right about trying to "slip things past" Laurel and Manu.

I didn't say it was right, either . . . and, now that I think of it, I keep forgetting Lit isn't a democracy.

 

[Spaffle]

You and I will just have to agree to disagree. I don't think there's anything right about trying to "slip things past" Laurel and Manu.

If you will pardon my newbie status, may I say that I agree with you? There are other sites where we can write the wildest, ghastliest, most illegal stuff that might ever enter our heads. We all know those sites, and many of us have written for them. So why try to "slip things past" the folks who try to maintain certain standards, even if we disagree with them? If I simply cannot survive without writing about sex with horses (which I can, believe me), I can do it elsewhere. Why waste the time of the people who run this place?

 

[cloudy]

If you will pardon my newbie status, may I say that I agree with you? There are other sites where we can write the wildest, ghastliest, most illegal stuff that might ever enter our heads. We all know those sites, and many of us have written for them. So why try to "slip things past" the folks who try to maintain certain standards, even if we disagree with them? If I simply cannot survive without writing about sex with horses (which I can, believe me), I can do it elsewhere. Why waste the time of the people who run this place?

Exactly.

 

[slyc_willie]

If you will pardon my newbie status, may I say that I agree with you? There are other sites where we can write the wildest, ghastliest, most illegal stuff that might ever enter our heads. We all know those sites, and many of us have written for them. So why try to "slip things past" the folks who try to maintain certain standards, even if we disagree with them? If I simply cannot survive without writing about sex with horses (which I can, believe me), I can do it elsewhere. Why waste the time of the people who run this place?

Because, simply put, Lit is the "biggest and the best" site on the Internet for erotica. Those who want to challenge the boundaries naturally want to get as much exposure, just like the rest of us. Or, most of us, anyway.

 

[Miss_Misaki]

Thus far, I have submitted the first part of one story to Literotica, and although it is classified as non-human (the protagonist is a member of a species that diverged from the evolutionary path of modern-day man a long time in the past), the one sex scene in it is a definite non-con. The woman in question is undeniably raped, as she never enjoys a single moment of it, and constantly begs her partner to stop. I guess what sets my story apart from a more realistic act of rape is that her aggressor actually loves her, and although he's abhorred by the thought of hurting the one he loves, he feels it's the only way to ensure that she won't try to leave him when it's over (there are complicated social circumstances that outweigh her personal feelings in the matter).

I intend to continue the story, and although I won't give any more away, I think the conclusion will make it fall more along the lines of the kind of non-con the owners would prefer to have on their site. I'm just saying that, for the sake of adding to the conversation, mine did get in, and it was in no way as mild as "reluctance."

 

[Spaffle]

Because, simply put, Lit is the "biggest and the best" site on the Internet for erotica. Those who want to challenge the boundaries naturally want to get as much exposure, just like the rest of us. Or, most of us, anyway.

That's a good answer. I hope you realize that I meant no criticism of anything that had been said; I was speaking only for myself.

 

[slyc_willie]

That's a good answer. I hope you realize that I meant no criticism of anything that had been said; I was speaking only for myself.

As have we all.

 

[slyc_willie]

I intend to continue the story, and although I won't give any more away, I think the conclusion will make it fall more along the lines of the kind of non-con the owners would prefer to have on their site. I'm just saying that, for the sake of adding to the conversation, mine did get in, and it was in no way as mild as "reluctance."

No one should be arrogant or stupid enough to tell you how to write. If the scene is well-written, and not excessive (as per Laurel's admittedly open-ended rules), you won't have a problem. If the story was accepted, then it follows the non-consensual aspect of it was within the parameters of acceptance.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It's just a Literotica myth that you can't put out pure rape. I've got stories where the girl doesn't even survive the rape. If you don't involve young children and or animals you can get pretty much anything through. There is a line of brutality where you get cut off but you have to try, we're talking spit roasting a girl while anally raping her try.

Hell if you read enough stories around here the child rule can be circumvented by simply neglecting to make it too blatant that the person is a child. I'm waiting for someone to really test the animal rule. I mean according to the rules a Unicorn qualifies as a magical animal and thus isn't an animal and thus is allowed. It's a horse. . .with a horn on it's head. I want to see some one try to push that past the censors just to see how it goes.

But as far as the rape no it doesn't need to be enjoyed by the victim. That's just a story people tell.

I have witten three stories about a woman and a unicorn, but I emphasisize that the animal is a unicorn. Among other things, he pleasures her with his horn. I also wrote about a man who is a werewolf, and he turns into a wolf and gives his wife some geat sex. Again, I mention that he is both a loving husband and has physical lupine qualities, such as a long, almost prehensile tongue, and a sense of smell.

I had a rape story where the woman committed suicide and her mother shot the rapist. It was in EH, which will get some leeway on that kind of thing. I recently had a story rejected because it was BDSM, and the man did degrading things to the woman. The last one was nothing like my usual story.

 

[Miss_Misaki]

I recently had a story ejected

I'm sorry; I know it's off topic and all, but this is one of those rare moments when a typo forms a great mental image. xD I had to draw attention to it so that we can all giggle at your inadvertent comic relief.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm sorry; I know it's off topic and all, but this is one of those rare moments when a typo forms a great mental image. xD I had to draw attention to it so that we can all giggle at your inadvertent comic relief.

What typo? When I went to my submissions page, it suddenly came flying out of the screen.