Nolte: Democrat-run St. Louis enters ‘Doom Loop’

[SugarDaddy1]

“The office district is empty, with boarded up towers, copper thieves, and failing retail,” reports the Wall Street Journal of Democrat-run St. Louis, Missouri. “[E]ven the Panera outlet shut down. The city is desperately trying to reverse the ‘doom loop.’”

“Cities such as San Francisco and Chicago are trying to save their downtown office districts from spiraling into a doom loop,” writes the Wall Street Journal. “St. Louis is already trapped in one.”

Crime, naturally, is a problem. The Wall Street Journal describes a barbecue joint’s smoker pierced with a bullet hole, businesses already struggling forced to pay for private security, broken windows, graffiti, otherwise empty roads filled with reckless drivers, buildings destroyed by the homeless and copper thieves…

I lived in a Midwest downtown for a couple of years in the mid-80s. There’s nothing better than a vibrant, safe downtown atmosphere with all the people and plenty to do, including the free amusement of the library, bookstores, and museums. This didn’t have to happen to St. Louis or San Francisco. Over the past century, Americans learned how to govern modern cities and reduce crime. The reversal of those policies was a deliberate decision made by Democrats. The fact that those Democrats remain in office is a deliberate decision made by voters. None of them deserve your sympathy.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/04/11/nolte-democrat-run-st-louis-enters-doom-loop/

 

[ll74]

Breitbart....what a journalistic shit hole.

 

[Chobham]

Breitbart....what a journalistic shit hole.

Unable to refute the facts cited in the article I see. So you do what all dimwits do, call names.

 

[ll74]

Unable to refute the facts cited in the article I see. So you do what all dimwits do, call names.

What specific facts are you referring to?

 

[justmethatswho]

One Fact.

St. Louis AT&T tower sells at auction for around $3.6million. That is about 30cents a square foot. Or in simpler math 1.7% of the price in 2006 which was $206million

This may affect the tax base in the city.

 

[Chernosoth]

St. Louis may occasionally flood, but it will have less of the drought and fire that will depopulate most of California. Its position on the Mississippi River guarantees rising importance as river traffic replaces highway and air traffic, and maybe also rail traffic.

 

[ll74]

One Fact.

St. Louis AT&T tower sells at auction for around $3.6million. That is about 30cents a square foot. Or in simpler math 1.7% of the price in 2006 which was $206million

This may affect the tax base in the city.

Yes, there are a few data points in the piece. Part of the fallout from COVID was that many more people work from home now.

The article seems to posit that this only impacts cities with certain political leanings, though I've seen no data that supports this theory....and instead have seen data that all cities are being impacted, regardless of party affiliation leadership.

Remote Work Is Poised to Devastate America’s Cities

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Unable to refute the facts cited in the article I see. So you do what all dimwits do, call names.

Let me guess, the governor is an R.

 

[justmethatswho]

Yes, there are a few data points in the piece. Part of the fallout from COVID was that many more people work from home now.

The article seems to posit that this only impacts cities with certain political leanings, though I've seen no data that supports this theory....and instead have seen data that all cities are being impacted, regardless of party affiliation leadership.

Remote Work Is Poised to Devastate America’s Cities

Well at least you see a few data points.

Well working from home is an issue if you have big office buildings needing to be filled. There is also the issue of crime and homelessness in large cities, that keeps people away.

As for party affiliation, that is true, yet most and close to all major metroplitan cities have leader ship on the left side of center. These leaders are doing little to fix issues, and solutions they have come up with seem to increase the issues at hand. Such as crime and homeless. Now we can add to it, near worthless vacant skyscrapers, which vastly decrease tax revenue.

 

[ll74]

Well at least you see a few data points.

Well working from home is an issue if you have big office buildings needing to be filled. There is also the issue of crime and homelessness in large cities, that keeps people away.

As for party affiliation, that is true, yet most and close to all major metroplitan cities have leader ship on the left side of center. These leaders are doing little to fix issues, and solutions they have come up with seem to increase the issues at hand. Such as crime and homeless. Now we can add to it, near worthless vacant skyscrapers, which vastly decrease tax revenue.

The questions I would have here are:
1. Where do you get the impression that they are doing little to fix issues? (And who are "they"?)
2. Do you have a list of what is being done or what isn't being done?
3. Is that broken down by party affiliation?
4. Are there things being done that are being shown to be effective?

Is homelessness and crime the driving factor here or is it more about working from home? I know the article drives their agenda from the former, but is that the complete picture?

I'll say that I live in the suburbs and work from home so I have no need to travel to the office downtown. That has nothing to do with either issue mentioned.

 

[justmethatswho]

The questions I would have here are:
1. Where do you get the impression that they are doing little to fix issues? (And who are "they"?)
2. Do you have a list of what is being done or what isn't being done?
3. Is that broken down by party affiliation?
4. Are there things being done that are being shown to be effective?

Is homelessness and crime the driving factor here or is it more about working from home? I know the article drives their agenda from the former, but is that the complete picture?

I'll say that I live in the suburbs and work from home so I have no need to travel to the office downtown. That has nothing to do with either issue mentioned.

1) Read a newspaper and you will see story after story about limiting law enforcement, allowing homeless camps and city officials saying all is good. The other article on the page is a comment about companies, leaving building or consolidating work spaces.

2) What is being done, no bail, chosing which crimes to prosecute and not prosecute, limiting law enforcement from doint what they are there to do.

3) I think it can be associated with one party or the other, since the policies of the party in leadership do little to help.

4) I do not think adding more public transportation, such as trains is going to make Metro areas more viable without correcting other issues.

I would say all three are factors, working from home, keeps people out of metro areas, yet homelessness and crime decreases the people going to those areas.

I actually work in a metropolitan area, yet I simply go to work and go home, visiting restaurants and spending more time than i need to in these areas is something I choose not to do.

 

[ll74]

1) Read a newspaper and you will see story after story about limiting law enforcement, allowing homeless camps and city officials saying all is good. The other article on the page is a comment about companies, leaving building or consolidating work spaces.

Who the fuck reads newspapers still?

2) What is being done, no bail, chosing which crimes to prosecute and not prosecute, limiting law enforcement from doint what they are there to do.

How is that leading to vacant office space?

3) I think it can be associated with one party or the other, since the policies of the party in leadership do little to help.

This sentence says nothing.

4) I do not think adding more public transportation, such as trains is going to make Metro areas more viable without correcting other issues.

Based on what data?

I would say all three are factors, working from home, keeps people out of metro areas, yet homelessness and crime decreases the people going to those areas.

Based on what data?

I actually work in a metropolitan area, yet I simply go to work and go home, visiting restaurants and spending more time than i need to in these areas is something I choose not to do.

Why do you choose not to do that?

 

[justmethatswho]

Who the fuck reads newspapers still?

Legitimate news sorces

How is that leading to vacant office space?

Simple, workers do not want to go back to work, thus buildings are going to be vacant

This sentence says nothing.

Sure it did. If the party in charge has shitty policies then little is done. The D in charge of nearly every large city

Based on what data?

Simple math. If fewer people work or visit metro area, then who is riding this public transportation.

Based on what data?

Refer to San Francisco, crime, homelessness (Unless there or foreign officials coming to town) and empty buildings. Seems to be the data to support this.

Why do you choose not to do that?

My employer does not allow working from home and never has. Thus I go to work. I will say I did like Covid traffic or the lack of traffic. I could travel in less time and saved fuel.

 

[ll74]

Legitimate news sorces

This is not a reply to my comment.

Simple, workers do not want to go back to work, thus buildings are going to be vacant

How does homelessness or crime factor into that?

Sure it did. If the party in charge has shitty policies then little is done. The D in charge of nearly every large city

"Shitty policies"
"Little is done"

Are they doing something or are they not doing something. Pick one.

Simple math. If fewer people work or visit metro area, then who is riding this public transportation.

Who is adding public transport and why?

Refer to San Francisco, crime, homelessness (Unless there or foreign officials coming to town) and empty buildings. Seems to be the data to support this.

What data? It sounds like you've actually seen dara so it should be easy to provide it.

My employer does not allow working from home and never has. Thus I go to work. I will say I did like Covid traffic or the lack of traffic. I could travel in less time and saved fuel.

My employer got rid of the office space.

 

[justmethatswho]

This is not a reply to my comment.

There are online newspapers.

How does homelessness or crime factor into that?

How does homelessness and crime not factor into that? Simple, people lack of will to put themselves in uncomfortable situations.

"Shitty policies"
"Little is done"

Are they doing something or are they not doing something. Pick one.

I think that I have explained that already. But if you could tell me what is being done and working, please do.

Shitty polices lead to little being done.

Who is adding public transport and why?

See many metro areas, to gain federal funding will increase public transportation.

What data? It sounds like you've actually seen data so it should be easy to provide it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/gov...ff in San,homelessness crisis in recent years.

 

[ll74]

Here's the data I really want to see - comparison between red and blue cities on the "doom spiral" along with policies enacted by those cities that might contribute.

At the moment, saying "well most cities are run by the left" ignores any similar decline in red cities or fails to express that such decline doesn't exist in red cities. All data I've seen is that every city is experiencing these issues regardless of leadership party affiliation.

 

[justmethatswho]

Here's the data I really want to see - comparison between red and blue cities on the "doom spiral" along with policies enacted by those cities that might contribute.

At the moment, saying "well most cities are run by the left" ignores any similar decline in red cities or fails to express that such decline doesn't exist in red cities. All data I've seen is that every city is experiencing these issues regardless of leadership party affiliation.

Please give me a list of large Metroplitan areas run by the red side. Also list policies involved that the red side has implemented that have or have not helped.

Then we compare to say, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, St. Louis, Seattle, Portland and ...

 

[ll74]

There are online newspapers.

Lol, and?

How does homelessness and crime not factor into that? Simple, people lack of will to put themselves in uncomfortable situations.

Show me where there is data supporting this. Simply saying "of course it does" means nothing. There were homeless people when i worked downtown and I still worked downtown. There was crime downtown and I still worked downtown.

I think that I have explained that already. But if you could tell me what is being done and working, please do.

I'm not the one claiming anything. Your statement is that little is being done while at the same time saying policies are being enacted and failing . Those two things are in opposition. Why should I have any responsibility to resolve that?

Shitty polices lead to little being done.

See above.

See many metro areas, to gain federal funding will increase public transportation.

What?

https://www.businessinsider.com/government-employees-san-francisco-told-to-work-from-home-crime-2023-8#:~:text=Some government staff in San,homelessness crisis in recent years.

Holy crap
....you can provide actual data.

Now show me where red cities aren't dealing with crime.

 

[ll74]

Please give me a list of large Metroplitan areas run by the red side. Also list policies involved that the red side has implemented that have or have not helped.

Why would I provide data? I'm not the one claiming that this is reserved to blue cities not am I stating that blue city policies (generic) are causing the issue.

I'm asking for the OP to prove out what is being claimed.

Then we compare to say, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, St. Louis, Seattle, Portland and ...

Yes, I believe you're understanding the issue here. The original claim shows no red city comparisons....so as far as I can tell, the problem isn't reserved to any specific city policies.

 

[ll74]

According to Ballotpedia - 63/100 largest cities are run by Democrats. (At least by mayoral standard)

So that would mean there are 34 cities where the doom loop isn't occurring because of different policies.

Where is the data supporting this?

 

[justmethatswho]

Lol, and?

You must get your news on Twitter / X LOL

Show me where there is data supporting this. Simply saying "of course it does" means nothing. There were homeless people when i worked downtown and I still worked downtown. There was crime downtown and I still worked downtown.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/n...irs-tables-and-desks-at-city-center-location/

Not certain what you are looking for and denying, it is happening.

I'm not the one claiming anything. Your statement is that little is being done while at the same time saying policies are being enacted and failing . Those two things are in opposition. Why should I have any responsibility to resolve that?

I have given you points and you keep deflecting asking for more and additional points. You state it does not matter who is in charge. So in this case I am asking you for data to support your opinion.

See above.

Glad we agree

What?

Fed Gov, will match funds for approved projects. Hence local/states spend money to get fed money. It's a shitty policy but hey that is gov.

Holy crap
....you can provide actual data.

Now show me where red cities aren't dealing with crime.

Yes, my writings are based on data.

My point is about blue cities. If you have some data on red cities, I would love to see it.

 

[Rightguide]

Breitbart....what a journalistic shit hole.

But did they lie? You don't know, right?

 

[ll74]

You must get your news on Twitter / X LOL

I asked for data sources. All you've done is randomly given me generic things as if it's my job to prove the claims being made. The article in the OP does not provide evidence sufficient to support the claim.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/n...irs-tables-and-desks-at-city-center-location/

Not certain what you are looking for and denying, it is happening.

All the data I've seen shows that this is happening in all cities. I'm not denying that downtowns are struggling with the working from home shift that has occurred since Covid.

I have given you points and you keep deflecting asking for more and additional points. You state it does not matter who is in charge. So in this case I am asking you for data to support your opinion.

I'm not the one claiming that it is blue cities only or that it is Democratic policies specifically. Why am I supposed to support their claim?

You've not provided data showing that it is Democratic policies or Democratic specific cities.

Glad we agree

We don't. You agree with unsupported claims as fact while I do not.

Fed Gov, will match funds for approved projects. Hence local/states spend money to get fed money. It's a shitty policy but hey that is gov.

How is this different to red city projects?

Yes, my writings are based on data.

Lol ..of course it is.

My point is about blue cities. If you have some data on red cities, I would love to see it.

You continue to agree with me on this yet somehow believe the claim of the OP is supported without it.

 

[ll74]

But did they lie? You don't know, right?

The article does not support it's claims. There is no data provided that shows the problem is isolated to blue cities.

 

[justmethatswho]

According to Ballotpedia - 63/100 largest cities are run by Democrats. (At least by mayoral standard)

So that would mean there are 34 cities where the doom loop isn't occurring because of different policies.

Where is the data supporting this?

Did I ever state there where not issues in other cities. This is your point, not mine.

Thank you for the debate and keeping it civil.