No wonder Bush and his cronies don't like the UN...

[p_p_man]

for possibly the first time in its history it isn't allowing itself to be browbeaten by the US. All those little countries who suffered for so long under the threat of American reprisals if they didn't co-operate with American very suspect foreign policy, can now, at last, feel some of their pride returning.

Now of course we're hearing the usual whinging from the usual whingers about the UN being a useless organisation and out-of-date.

It is now as far as Bush is concerned.

Just think, this illegal invasion with which the UK has stupidly aligned itself, may well be the last time ever that America can go to war with the pretence of a 'coalition'. From now on if it wants allies it will either have to have excellent justification for the conflict, or pay through the nose for any help it may need...

Now we're going to hear the whingers say "FUCK YOU! America doesn't NEED anyone! We CAN DO IT by ourselves!!!"

Oh yeah? You and who's army...

ppman

 

[Lovelynice]

Exactly, but some folks need to get their asses spanked first.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

No, p_p_...

The UN is coming to the realization that it's over. Done. No one respects them. No one fears them. No one really likes the UN anymore. Just a few Euro-Elitists onthe far left.

Your world is being jerked back to the right. It will be hard to adjust. I think you are too old to make that adjustment. I am sorry for you.

 

[Lovelynice]

Lol..... You really haven't been listening to the rest of the world, have you.

 

[Ishmael]

Lol..... You really haven't been listening to the rest of the world, have you.

No we haven't and it's unlikely that we ever will again. Thank God.

Ishmael

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Well said, bro as we move gracefully into a period of History when WE becme the middle kingdom...

 

[Ishmael]

Well said, bro as we move gracefully into a period of History when WE becme the middle kingdom...

Perhaps people will begin to learn that the term "Leadership" isn't a popularity poll or a case of the wolf being led by the sheep.

Ishmael

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Exactly.

 

[cliffchuff]

You follow like sheep in a wolves clothes.
you follow like sheep in a wolves clothes.

 

[Lovelynice]

Lol....

It's a sad truth that the USA needs the world more than the world needs the USA.

In the traditions of most societies, the "Oath-Breaker" was always the most reviled of all.

Of the "Coalition of the Willing" it's funny how many nations are quietly dropping out and saying things like, "Um...ah...we didn't discuss this about being on any list...honest, we're not part of the Coalition that's doing this very unpopular illegal invasion of a sovereign nation that is a signatory to the United Nations Charter..."

Some are calling it the Coalition of Two-and-a-bit...noting that Denmark and Australia have only contributed minuscule troop numbers, and South Korea which has joined isn't contributing any combat personnel at all.

You might not have noticed, but Japan reduced it's number of warships assisting the Coalition by two ships last week....and they've balked at paying even a single Yen into the whole operation.

 

[Somme]

hmmm...now why am I not surprised, Lovely?

 

[p_p_man]

No, p_p_...

The UN is coming to the realization that it's over. Done. No one respects them. No one fears them. No one really likes the UN anymore.

It's funny, or maybe it's revealing, but the only people I hear expressing those sentiments are Americans...

ppman

 

[Linedrive]

The UN is an impotent, farce of an organization. The sooner it is dumped by the US the better. The only thing it's good for is providing 3rd world despots a chance to be heard and criticize America. Honestly, you can have your UN.

 

[p_p_man]

The UN is an impotent, farce of an organization. The sooner it is dumped by the US the better. The only thing it's good for is providing 3rd world despots a chance to be heard and criticize America. Honestly, you can have your UN.

Unfortunately for the USA it needs the UN. Where else can you get all those countries you want to threaten and coerce into doing you bidding, in one spot.

Without the UN the USA would be reduced to acting through its Emabassies. Much more expensive and much less reliable...

ppman

 

[Linedrive]

I think the UN can serve a good function in humanitarian, agriculture, health and many other areas. As far as an acting military body, they are incompetent. Not just due to Iraq, they can never come to a consesus in the Security council on anything. How realistic is it to expect to find a resolution that fits into the Russian, Chinese, British, French, and American foreign policies and outlook.

<snip>
Noted constitutional scholar Herb Titus has thoroughly researched the United Nations and its so-called "authority,” and finds that the U.N. charter is not a treaty at all. Rather, he says, it is a blueprint for supranational government that directly violates the U.S. Constitution. In other words, the Charter - though sacred to one-worlders for over a half century - is neither politically nor legally binding upon the American people or government.

Here’s Congressman Paul’s the bottom line: "The U.N. has no authority to make 'laws' that bind American citizens, because it does not derive its power from the consent of the American people.”

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/2/222034

 

[funspirit]

I think the UN can serve a good function in humanitarian, agriculture, health and many other areas. As far as an acting military body, they are incompetent. Not just due to Iraq, they can never come to a consesus in the Security council on anything. How realistic is it to expect to find a resolution that fits into the Russian, Chinese, British, French, and American foreign policies and outlook.

<snip>
Noted constitutional scholar Herb Titus has thoroughly researched the United Nations and its so-called "authority,” and finds that the U.N. charter is not a treaty at all. Rather, he says, it is a blueprint for supranational government that directly violates the U.S. Constitution. In other words, the Charter - though sacred to one-worlders for over a half century - is neither politically nor legally binding upon the American people or government.

Here’s Congressman Paul’s the bottom line: "The U.N. has no authority to make 'laws' that bind American citizens, because it does not derive its power from the consent of the American people.”

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/4/2/222034

very interesting- I guess I never thought about it that way. However, by agreeing to become a member, aren't we agreeing to follow their rules?

 

[Linedrive]

Nobody follows the UN rules...that is half the problem. It drives people crazy that the US actually does what the US wants to do, and doesn't allow some international body to decide what is best for America...drives em fucking crazy.

 

[breakwall]

Remember how Rome fell?


History repeats itself.

 

[Linedrive]

If there is one thing we learn from history breakwall, is that we don't learn from history. History has the benifit of being applied to all sides of arguments. I mean who could forget the appeasement of Hitler and Milosovic and how many people were killed because of it. Or what about the French not wanting the UN to intervein in Ruwanda, and the thousands and thousands that were killed there. We truly do not learn from history.

Once again, how realistic is it for us to expect the US, UK, France, Russia and China to all agree on something, much less something that has to do with military action.

If China takes back Taiwan, they won't go to the UN to do it. If North Korea invades South Korea, they won't go to the UN to do it. If Russia goes into Chechnya and kills a bunch of rebels, it isn't done with UN approval. If India or Pakistan ever go to war, it won't have UN approval.

Why does everyone expect the US to get approval...?

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Very interesting points Gunner.

We certainly don't want to make the USA subject to UN rule, we want to remain as a sovergn entity.

That being said, I think there is some utility in having a place to talk. I still don't like the fact that we're paying 25% of the total operating expenses for the UN...it's like paying someone to kick you.

It's a narrow line to walk to remain independent, but still have a place to talk.

There are certainly signs of tension and the UN/international body trying to exert control over nations, for example, the international criminal court.

Is it Libya that's in charge of the commission on human rights? Many aspects of the UN are equally silly.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

It's funny, or maybe it's revealing, but the only people I hear expressing those sentiments are Americans...

ppman

It may have something to do with suddenly being the bane of civilization whilst the Paragons of Civilization support tyrants.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Breakwall. Have you even read Gibbons?

 

[p_p_man]

Breakwall. Have you even read Gibbons?

Which one?

The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire or...

The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin?

Only Brits would understand this...

ppman