NIETZSCHE: Frogs perspective.

[NaokoSmith]

TIO?

The blood of pharoahs and emperors and philosopher kings flow thru me, our Western Civilization is their handiwork. We dont compromise with peasants who fuck sheep. Killing people with different viewpoints is quicker than schmoozing them.

Oh but not nearly so much fun!
(by another name)

 

[NaokoSmith]

And I've had quite enough of the specious specieism that started this all. Frogs see infrared as well as our limited visible spectrum while birds see the same range of wavelengths as us. We human oppressors, particularly those who call themselves 'philosophers,' insist on ascribing or interpreting other species as if they were what you think they are?
And which birds? Talk about "all them (fill in your favourite imaginary race)
look the same!" Eagles and vultures see things very differently than do ostriches and emus.
Nietsche may be clever, but he's as dumb as any philosopher, and, despite all claims of modernism, still working in the logic of the concrete. Well, let me tell you, all analogies limp, and if you're more like a frog than I am, it's only because neither of us know what it is to be a frog. Brek-a-kek-kek-coax-coax. And whether the totemic operator is at work with ourself or the other, it's still only what we all think they be! and you talk of oppression!

Shahryar, I return to the second and greater topic of your post.

JBJ has retreated into his frog's perspective, preferring to render me invisible rather than see any further comments I might make on his reflective rather than reflexive discourse.

You are quite right that I can't see infrared like a frog, nor like an eagle surveying the plains for prey or a heron standing looking out over the waters.

JBJ takes what we might call the standpoint view, similar to Lovecraft68's comment on the thread which started off all this Nietzschean musing. LC mentioned growing up white in a poor community from which some black people got themselves out owing to making the effort to do so (implication being just as LC did), while others sat around moaning about their oppression. JBJ suggests that being valuable property, African-Americans used to be treated better than poor white trash. (Monique Wittig's description of women as 'vile and precious merchandise' comes to mind).

What these angry comments both fail to put the finger on is the question of class. Without sliding into some dull retro-Marxist analysis, both poor black and poor white communities can be seen here pitted against each other in a way which allows the wealthy (white) to continue on their way serenely untroubled. Peggy Phelan comments on the power of invisibility, the way in which to be truly powerful it's best to not even be noticed appropriating resources in society. When you are someone who has to make yourself visible in order to try to get resources, you always already make it clear that you don't have sufficient power just to be given what you want without having to ask. (I know, 'always already' is over-used and unfashionable but I it so much!)

JBJ is much cleverer than he has been pretending. As always, this board offers a binary. There are two subject positions here: intelligent discussant of the arts of writing the erotic (with various flirtatious games on the side aimed at keeping the old word-play skills on the go) or stupid troll. It's not clear to me whether JBJ can go back to stupid troll after making a reflection so close to that which Roland Barthes made, and coming out with the snappy witty remark about the GOP elephant and KKK white sheet. It's much easier to just troll about here having a laugh than do some reading and thinking from which basis to chat with the best posters on here. But it's more fun to engage properly in the serious debates.

I think my favourite of JBJ's remarks on this thread is, "I'm a combat veteran and have 5 sisters, take your best shot. " in response to my comment that I'd be gentle with him. The ironic humour and intellectual prowess of this play on gender symbolism: violence and weaponry plus sororial (tigress?) women of the family deployed to battle off the gentleness of the feminine, suggests that JBJ is as much a postmodern thinker as you and I.

I am not a great fan of standpoint theory, except as a means of identifying some of what goes on in identity politics. When I look at the discussion above I think that exploring what the world looks like from their own standpoint does nothing to move either JBJ or LC or black people on from entrenched positions of asserting victim identity. (Successfully self-mobilised out of the ghetto victims, of course.) I might describe myself as a faggot (well, lesbo), a whore, not a nigger but of minority ethnic identity. None of these helped me understand the manner in which power can be carelessly operated so much as my upper class identity. Watching my own ability to casually assert myself over others by quite subtle means was when I began to more fully understand the invisible operations of power.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Place aside the chalky bullshit perfessers hide behind, and what youre left with is a poor soul alone in the gladiator arena. I took the course in Vietnam on a dark night, the classroom was an intersection of two roads, and my assignment was DONT LET ANYONE COME ACROSS THAT ROAD.

I thought about the President and Congress and The People but realized I was all by myself, not a great thinker anywhere close...NO MAMA, NO PAPA, NO UNCLE SAM. Just me. So I had to confront the Great Truth at the bottom of all chalky bullshit, HIM OR ME? And I killed a kid who tried to cross my road. Shot him thru his heart after a helicopter illuminated him.

Its surreal to watch a man die. It seemed to take forever but was probably no more than an instant. His initial expression was surprise. Then fear. Then rage. Then sadness. Then nothing.

I think I had maybe 2 perfessers with gladiator experience. We had a silent awareness and recognition of kinship or whatever it is. Neither perfesser ever blabbered chalky bullshit, neither ever hid behind a Wizard of Oz guise as most perfessers do.

There's only one viewpoint that counts, and thats your aim.

 

[NaokoSmith]

JBJ, not sure if you can see this or not really.

To be human can be terrible, we are none of us pure beings.

George Orwell has written about how he had to take out a man and hang him when he was in Burma.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

There clearly is a mind behind the troll that masquerades as JBJ, Naoko, but what is fiction and what is non- is often not clear. The profound statement on the personalization of war is accompanied by a change in avatar to a hollywood gladiator, leaving one to question, not the notion, but its ascription.
In playing a Latter-Day Mark Twain or Ambrose Bierce, James sometimes looses his persona and leaves himself open to barbs; his effort at recovery always overdoes the common man facade. He is fun to play with sometimes, though, and he does give you cause to think about what you think.

Now for dear George, as a post scriptum...
I thought he wrote 1984 as a warning; why has his homeland taken it as a textbook?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

There clearly is a mind behind the troll that masquerades as JBJ, Naoko, but what is fiction and what is non- is often not clear. The profound statement on the personalization of war is accompanied by a change in avatar to a hollywood gladiator, leaving one to question, not the notion, but its ascription.
In playing a Latter-Day Mark Twain or Ambrose Bierce, James sometimes looses his persona and leaves himself open to barbs; his effort at recovery always overdoes the common man facade. He is fun to play with sometimes, though, and he does give you cause to think about what you think.

Now for dear George, as a post scriptum...
I thought he wrote 1984 as a warning; why has his homeland taken it as a textbook?

I used azaleas a week ago. And thought about using Prince Escalus. Youre the brainiac, what does it mean? Three weeks ago I used an elephant.

Tio? This will depress you a little but Mark Twain is a kinsman of mine; his grandmother was a Johnson from Louisa County Virginia, where my Johnson clan came from. And it gets worse, my 3rd great-grandmother says in her memoirs that the Johnsons came from Litchfield? in Staffordshire, now who do you suppose came from Litchfield with the name of Johnson? Its not a huge town.

Here's the book.
http://archive.org/details/recollectionsofr00injohn
John Johnson is my 3rd Great Grandfather, Adam Clarke Johnson is my 2nd Great Grandfather, and Susannah is Johns wife.

The Funeral Sermon at the end of the book was created by John Johnson, and is pretty fair prose for a man who was illiterate until an adult. I plan to use it, edited, for my own funeral, because its timeless.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I used azaleas a week ago. And thought about using Prince Escalus. Youre the brainiac, what does it mean? Three weeks ago I used an elephant.

Tio? This will depress you a little but Mark Twain is a kinsman of mine; his grandmother was a Johnson from Louisa County Virginia, where my Johnson clan came from. And it gets worse, my 3rd great-grandmother says in her memoirs that the Johnsons came from Litchfield? in Staffordshire, now who do you suppose came from Litchfield with the name of Johnson? Its not a huge town.Here's the book.
http://archive.org/details/recollectionsofr00injohn
John Johnson is my 3rd Great Grandfather, Adam Clarke Johnson is my 2nd Great Grandfather, and Susannah is Johns wife.

The Funeral Sermon at the end of the book was created by John Johnson, and is pretty fair prose for a man who was illiterate until an adult. I plan to use it, edited, for my own funeral, because its timeless.

Not in the least depressing, James; wit and writing ability isn't genetically determined. But still, you don't do him any disservice; enough saw him as a troll as well.
By the way, you're a bit off on the white women/black slaves bit. It wasn't just the Irish gals, you know; plenty of Scots and English found them quite appealing. One Carolina Quaker woman in the early 1700s tried to claim that a black man had raped her at a party. The other celebrants testified that after she'd had a few ciders, she grabbed the man and dragged him to the bed. He was found not guilty.

 

[NekoParks]

Somebody nudge me awake when JBJ starts nattering about "perfumed princes". I always love that rant. Hey, JBJ, you're my favorite crackerjack on this forum-- and I miss your hooded elephant AV...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Not in the least depressing, James; wit and writing ability isn't genetically determined. But still, you don't do him any disservice; enough saw him as a troll as well.
By the way, you're a bit off on the white women/black slaves bit. It wasn't just the Irish gals, you know; plenty of Scots and English found them quite appealing. One Carolina Quaker woman in the early 1700s tried to claim that a black man had raped her at a party. The other celebrants testified that after she'd had a few ciders, she grabbed the man and dragged him to the bed. He was found not guilty.

I suspect that many of the rape lynchings were done after discovering that momma liked black cock. A lot of the babies ended up with the black mans family.

Theres plenty thats concealed, from those times.

When I did my genealogy I discovered a request for military records by a black man from near Memphis Tennessee, the town was a black community; but the black man had my ancestors name. What puzzled me was my ancestor had no female slaves. The slave census records list 200 males and no females. So I wondered who the female was who made the baby who had my ancestors name. One of his daughters vanished without trace after 1865 following her wedding. No burial records no nuthin in the papers. Nada. The marriage coulda been arranged to keep things quiet. I dont know.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Somebody nudge me awake when JBJ starts nattering about "perfumed princes". I always love that rant. Hey, JBJ, you're my favorite crackerjack on this forum-- and I miss your hooded elephant AV...

Perfumed Princes are the worst. I'll fetch the pacyderm! Tio will likely infer that it has something to do with my manhood issues.

 

[NekoParks]

I suspect that many of the rape lynchings were done after discovering that momma liked black cock. A lot of the babies ended up with the black mans family.

Theres plenty thats concealed, from those times.

When I did my genealogy I discovered a request for military records by a black man from near Memphis Tennessee, the town was a black community; but the black man had my ancestors name. What puzzled me was my ancestor had no female slaves. The slave census records list 200 males and no females. So I wondered who the female was who made the baby who had my ancestors name. One of his daughters vanished without trace after 1865 following her wedding. No burial records no nuthin in the papers. Nada. The marriage coulda been arranged to keep things quiet. I dont know.

Actually there are quite a few white Americans with slave ancestry. One of my sisters had some genetic testing done due to an illness with her child. She discovered that she had genetic markers that only occur in people of African descent. She is my sister, which means that I probably have the same genetic markers-- even though we are both blue-eyed blondes with very pale skin. You just never know who you really are. Since some of my family comes from NOLA, it is likely some of my Creole ancestry is more than French/Spanish. I find genetics fascinating.

 

[NekoParks]

Perfumed Princes are the worst. I'll fetch the pacyderm! Tio will likely infer that it has something to do with my manhood issues.

Yeah! Long live the pacyderm!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Actually there are quite a few white Americans with slave ancestry. One of my sisters had some genetic testing done due to an illness with her child. She discovered that she had genetic markers that only occur in people of African descent. She is my sister, which means that I probably have the same genetic markers-- even though we are both blue-eyed blondes with very pale skin. You just never know who you really are. Since some of my family comes from NOLA, it is likely some of my Creole ancestry is more than French/Spanish. I find genetics fascinating.

I have plenty of African ancestry from North Africa...Egypt, Carthage, Mauritania, etc. I'd guess youd call them Moors. But I too have blue eyes and auburn hair (when I had hair) and pale skin. My mother, on the otherhand, looked Cherokee Indian; her side is Cherokee/Swiss.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Place aside the chalky bullshit perfessers hide behind, and what youre left with is a poor soul alone in the gladiator arena. I took the course in Vietnam on a dark night, the classroom was an intersection of two roads, and my assignment was DONT LET ANYONE COME ACROSS THAT ROAD.

I thought about the President and Congress and The People but realized I was all by myself, not a great thinker anywhere close...NO MAMA, NO PAPA, NO UNCLE SAM. Just me. So I had to confront the Great Truth at the bottom of all chalky bullshit, HIM OR ME? And I killed a kid who tried to cross my road. Shot him thru his heart after a helicopter illuminated him.

Its surreal to watch a man die. It seemed to take forever but was probably no more than an instant. His initial expression was surprise. Then fear. Then rage. Then sadness. Then nothing.

I think I had maybe 2 perfessers with gladiator experience. We had a silent awareness and recognition of kinship or whatever it is. Neither perfesser ever blabbered chalky bullshit, neither ever hid behind a Wizard of Oz guise as most perfessers do.

There's only one viewpoint that counts, and thats your aim.

Well, I hope someone JBJ isn't ignoring tells him, that although that is a terrible experience he's gone through, he's written about it with great skill.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'd post my tale about the 14 year old boy Florida hanged back in 1910 (very detailed) but it includes rape of a girl and her brutal murder. Its a true story, but well written inspite of the subject and particulars. Maybe i can post a few paragraphs.

Just now finished a new story I call NIGGA HEAVEN, its about a Jewish farm gal who likes the OTHER DARK MEAT and wants a bull.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

.......

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I'd post my tale about the 14 year old boy Florida hanged back in 1910 (very detailed) but it includes rape of a girl and her brutal murder. Its a true story, but well written inspite of the subject and particulars. Maybe i can post a few paragraphs.

Just now finished a new story I call NIGGA HEAVEN, its about a Jewish farm gal who likes the OTHER DARK MEAT and wants a bull.

Very clever, James - a title that isn't about what the story's about. Were you inspired by Dumas' "Three Musketeers?"

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Very clever, James - a title that isn't about what the story's about. Were you inspired by Dumas' "Three Musketeers?"

I dont care for Alexander Dumass. (THE COUNT OF MONEY CRISTO is crap) France had a few first rate composers...Poulenc, Ravel, Debussy, Franck, Widor, and Guilmant...otherwise its a total waste and embarrassment...except for Napoleon.

I just noticed that my nose is bigger than your dick.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I dont care for Alexander Dumass. (THE COUNT OF MONEY CRISTO is crap) France had a few first rate composers...Poulenc, Ravel, Debussy, Franck, Widor, and Guilmant...otherwise its a total waste and embarrassment...except for Napoleon.

I just noticed that my nose is bigger than your dick.

Why thank you, James; I didn't know you liked to look at my dick.

And I wasn't referring to the quality of Dumas' work; just his clever ploy in titling his book "The Three Musketeers" when it was about someone who wasn't a Musketeer at all.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Why thank you, James; I didn't know you liked to look at my dick.

And I wasn't referring to the quality of Dumas' work; just his clever ploy in titling his book "The Three Musketeers" when it was about someone who wasn't a Musketeer at all.

I saw a vid the other day of a chick with a dick, and it made me pause to reflect on my basic principles. She definitely looked yummy from I saw of the rest of her, so I rationalized it like the Wizard of Oz, that is, just cuz you got something aint no sign that you got something. Hyenas have fake dix too. As long as she dont talk like Dennis the ALLSTATE insurance man or fuck my butt...who knows!

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I saw a vid the other day of a chick with a dick, and it made me pause to reflect on my basic principles. She definitely looked yummy from I saw of the rest of her, so I rationalized it like the Wizard of Oz, that is, just cuz you got something aint no sign that you got something. Hyenas have fake dix too. As long as she dont talk like Dennis the ALLSTATE insurance man or fuck my butt...who knows!

Remember the late Tuli Kupferberg's dictum: "If it moves, fondle it!"

 

[NaokoSmith]

Y'know I heard that JBJ had a gardening thread, so maybe he does have a blog about vegetables. I really should look for his thread. At the moment if I have something to ask about the garden, I have to do it in Seldom Used Words.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Y'know I heard that JBJ had a gardening thread, so maybe he does have a blog about vegetables. I really should look for his thread. At the moment if I have something to ask about the garden, I have to do it in Seldom Used Words.

Yes, Naoko, James really is quite the gardener... probably inspired by a misreading of Marvell's line about "my vegetable love..."
Now, I must see what vegetative word is being seldom used...

 

[Stella_Omega]

I saw a vid the other day of a chick with a dick, and it made me pause to reflect on my basic principles. She definitely looked yummy from I saw of the rest of her, so I rationalized it like the Wizard of Oz, that is, just cuz you got something aint no sign that you got something. Hyenas have fake dix too. As long as she dont talk like Dennis the ALLSTATE insurance man or fuck my butt...who knows!

She had a real dick, and fake tits, most likely.

I call them "Dudes with boobs." And they make their money off of fucking "straight" men in the butt.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

She had a real dick, and fake tits, most likely.

I call them "Dudes with boobs." And they make their money off of fucking "straight" men in the butt.

I almost always can spot the trannies. She didnt look like a hot rod or sound like one.