New Formulas

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So I'm cranking out lotsa stuff lately and burning a lot of candles doing research, I prolly watched several 100 vids of people fucking and kissing and whatever. I also watch people IRL. Yesterday at WALMART the redhead ahead of me in line got my attention by her interactions with me. There are prettier faces but she had a nice body and what I call a you can fuck me demeanor. I guess she's around 50. So I paid attention to her sexual signals but let it go. I did take notes.

She got me thinking about porn. What makes good porn?

Confounding makes good porn. The unexpected in familiar circumstances. Like this from real life...mom and kid come in for therapy, and the kid unbuttons mom's blouse and exposes her tits. Mom says, WOULD YOU LOOK WHAT SHE DID! I did look. Or the couple who come for marriage therapy, and the wife has no panties on. Or the parents come in to discuss their kid, and as soon as they leave momma calls you to invite you over to play when daddy is at work. Or, my favorite, a woman caller wants to know where she can go to learn how to be a lesbian, cuz she has an opportunity to move in with friends and the wife friend wants servicing too.

Prolly 99% of porn is formulaic and choreographed.

 

[NaokoSmith]

You can do a lot with a werewolf vehicle, what a nifty way to destroy societys assholes.

Well, I think so. The werewolf romance seems to be vehicle for just regurgitating a lot of social nonsense, so it seemed like a good place to go in order to spread some of that out of the literary table and re-arrange it. But the readers are a bit boggled! and now my editor has run away. She said she wasn't fazed by the three gay werewolves in an alley (ROFL) but people often have more boundaries than they would like to admit to.

It's hard to find an editor for gay male when you're a woman writer and they suspect you'll write lots of hugs and kisses! I tried someone who had the word 'hardcock' in his profile name, which seemed promising, but he never replied. It's difficult to search for editors who might look at particular genres because a lot of people say they love everything. But maybe my errant editor will wander back.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, I think so. The werewolf romance seems to be vehicle for just regurgitating a lot of social nonsense, so it seemed like a good place to go in order to spread some of that out of the literary table and re-arrange it. But the readers are a bit boggled! and now my editor has run away. She said she wasn't fazed by the three gay werewolves in an alley (ROFL) but people often have more boundaries than they would like to admit to.

It's hard to find an editor for gay male when you're a woman writer and they suspect you'll write lots of hugs and kisses! I tried someone who had the word 'hardcock' in his profile name, which seemed promising, but he never replied. It's difficult to search for editors who might look at particular genres because a lot of people say they love everything. But maybe my errant editor will wander back.

People are often uncomfortable with what they know about themselves or past trauma. I think editors need to be able to dissociate from what theyre editing, to be objective. I've known plenty of gays, and while their sexual conduct has no effect on me, they do annoy me with the jealousy and tantrums when their fella has straight friends. I dont like it in needy females, either. I assume you like Clive Barker, he writes gay horror.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

If anyone wants it here's a gay non-consent plot for you. It happens to be true.

A good ol country boy goes to the local red neck bar and picks up two women. They take him home and drug him. Then their guys rape the bumpkin. In the end country boy is tossed outta a van, onto the median along a busy stetch of hiway, naked.

 

[NaokoSmith]

People are often uncomfortable with what they know about themselves or past trauma. I think editors need to be able to dissociate from what theyre editing, to be objective. I've known plenty of gays, and while their sexual conduct has no effect on me, they do annoy me with the jealousy and tantrums when their fella has straight friends. I dont like it in needy females, either. I assume you like Clive Barker, he writes gay horror.

LOL, in my spare time I like to read soppy romances with lots of lace cuffs tossing and bosoms indignantly heaving! Some black cultural crit to keep my brain cells dancing, maybe the thoughts of Richard Wright on Nietzsche's frog's perspective. Oh, and a bit of Homer's Iliad to really get me going .

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOL, in my spare time I like to read soppy romances with lots of lace cuffs tossing and bosoms indignantly heaving! Some black cultural crit to keep my brain cells dancing, maybe the thoughts of Richard Wright on Nietzsche's frog's perspective. Oh, and a bit of Homer's Iliad to really get me going .

I'm a meat & potato simpleton. And I'm famous for hammering square pegs into round holes.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I'm a meat & potato simpleton. And I'm famous for hammering square pegs into round holes.

Yah, yah! that's why you came up with an idea similar to Roland Barthes' about the way writers and readers interact in the creation of a piece of literature, rather than it all being the author who does it. ROFL.

You are a smart cookie, really, JBJ, you get bored and start being badly behaved. You did read all the stuff about black cultural critique yeah? I don't just mean DuBois's Souls of Black Folk. I bet you would like The Signifying Monkey, although presumably you read it already.

BTW and on topic for this thread, The Souls of Black Folk is an attempt to write against the formula. DuBois was commissioned to write his ethnographic study The Philadelphia Negro at the end of the 19th century. It remains a supreme example of ethnographic research yet is rarely cited except in race studies.

After publication, DuBois got an academic appointment. In the town where he was working, a dreadful miscarriage of justice was taking place - a black labourer had been arrested for a murder which was more like self-defence. A false rumour had gone round saying he had also raped the (white) wife of the person he supposedly murdered. DuBois had spent time crafting a letter to the Governor to ask for justice for the labourer. On his way to deliver it, he heard that the labourer had been lynched.

He felt his careful scientific study showing that African-American people are not genetically disposed to crime and poverty but struggle in difficult social circumstances had proved utterly pointless. He turned his back on social sciences and wrote his very different reflective classic, The Souls of Black Folk, now a famous cultural studies account.

They are both truly great books, so I guess it's about the writer not the genre.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Yah, yah! that's why you came up with an idea similar to Roland Barthes' about the way writers and readers interact in the creation of a piece of literature, rather than it all being the author who does it. ROFL.

You are a smart cookie, really, JBJ, you get bored and start being badly behaved. You did read all the stuff about black cultural critique yeah? I don't just mean DuBois's Souls of Black Folk. I bet you would like The Signifying Monkey, although presumably you read it already.

BTW and on topic for this thread, The Souls of Black Folk is an attempt to write against the formula. DuBois was commissioned to write his ethnographic study The Philadelphia Negro at the end of the 19th century. It remains a supreme example of ethnographic research yet is rarely cited except in race studies.

After publication, DuBois got an academic appointment. In the town where he was working, a dreadful miscarriage of justice was taking place - a black labourer had been arrested for a murder which was more like self-defence. A false rumour had gone round saying he had also raped the (white) wife of the person he supposedly murdered. DuBois had spent time crafting a letter to the Governor to ask for justice for the labourer. On his way to deliver it, he heard that the labourer had been lynched.

He felt his careful scientific study showing that African-American people are not genetically disposed to crime and poverty but struggle in difficult social circumstances had proved utterly pointless. He turned his back on social sciences and wrote his very different reflective classic, The Souls of Black Folk, now a famous cultural studies account.

They are both truly great books, so I guess it's about the writer not the genre.

Youre on to me. I gotta get a better disguise.

There's plenty of mythology and BS about blacks. That said, blacks dont help themselves when they help us racists out perpetrating their stereotypes. Blacks are like Jews in many ways. Chester Himes didnt lie in his Harlem books, what he spoofed really goes on. I oughta write an owners manual for blacks. Think about this crazee idea: American blacks are Scottish. They are.

I'll checkout your reading recommendations. Thanks.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Youre on to me. I gotta get a better disguise.

There's plenty of mythology and BS about blacks. That said, blacks dont help themselves when they help us racists out perpetrating their stereotypes. Blacks are like Jews in many ways. Chester Himes didnt lie in his Harlem books, what he spoofed really goes on. I oughta write an owners manual for blacks. Think about this crazee idea: American blacks are Scottish. They are.

I'll checkout your reading recommendations. Thanks.

Yeah, there are a lot of fun things in black lit crit. I especially like the concepts of double consciousness (DuBois) and frog's perspective (Wright). These are similar to Hegel's notion of the Master/Slave. The Master has power but he only understands life from his own perspective. The slave has to know not only his own condition but what the master's perspective is, because he has to second guess the master all the time or he'll be punished. So the slave has much better knowledge, but no power. Feminists adapted this very successfully as a means of explaining the situation of women. But in my opinion it's bloody useless for changing the order of things.

ROFL! Nothing better than bouncing a few ideas around on a lazy Sunday.

 

[lovecraft68]

I grew up in an all black neighborhood. With two types of black friends. The ones that never acknowledged they were black and the ones who could not stop reminding everyone they were.

30 years later which ones do you think still live in that neighborhood and which ones have done better than themselves?

One guess.

When you want to be treated differently and as less than you will be. Drop the crutch and act like everyone else and you'll get farther in life.

 

[Handley_Page]

LOL, in my spare time I like to read soppy romances with lots of lace cuffs tossing and bosoms indignantly heaving!
Some black cultural crit to keep my brain cells dancing, maybe the thoughts of Richard Wright on Nietzsche's frog's perspective.
Oh, and a bit of Homer's Iliad to really get me going .

Do tell me some of the titles etc.., please.
Homer's 'Odessy' was the first classic I read [my parents were not great on classics], but I got so peeved reading or hearing references to it that I found a Penguin Modern Classics version (translated by E V Rieu, who fore-swore the "oh what words pour over the fence of your teeth" [Herkos Odonton] and substituted "What nonsense"). When I compared it with other translations, I was quite surprised. The original might have been in a clever set or rhyming couplets, but that does not translate well into English, to my mind [yea - OK, I'm dumb]

 

[NaokoSmith]

Do tell me some of the titles etc.., please.
Homer's 'Odessy' was the first classic I read [my parents were not great on classics], but I got so peeved reading or hearing references to it that I found a Penguin Modern Classics version (translated by E V Rieu, who fore-swore the "oh what words pour over the fence of your teeth" [Herkos Odonton] and substituted "What nonsense"). When I compared it with other translations, I was quite surprised. The original might have been in a clever set or rhyming couplets, but that does not translate well into English, to my mind [yea - OK, I'm dumb]

I will dig some out for you!

I started reading the Odyssey when a fellow MILF, er I mean mom, recommended a modern MM romance of the Achilles/Patroclus story, thinking I might like it. I read reviews of the book and realised it was pretty tame compared to what I'm now used to reading! I thought I'd give the original a crack and found it so much stronger in the concepts and language. I'll have a look and see what translation I've got. I like the angriness of the characters and their passion for the women they've seized in conquest. This is probably totally unsuitable reading for a feminist like wot I am (snigger) but I stick with it in my admirable quest to break genre (yeah right! I love it.)

 

[Safe_Bet]

When you want to be treated differently and as less than you will be. Drop the crutch and act like everyone else and you'll get farther in life.

Gee... how entitled and privileged, str8, white, male of you to think that way.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Yeah, there are a lot of fun things in black lit crit. I especially like the concepts of double consciousness (DuBois) and frog's perspective (Wright). These are similar to Hegel's notion of the Master/Slave. The Master has power but he only understands life from his own perspective. The slave has to know not only his own condition but what the master's perspective is, because he has to second guess the master all the time or he'll be punished. So the slave has much better knowledge, but no power. Feminists adapted this very successfully as a means of explaining the situation of women. But in my opinion it's bloody useless for changing the order of things.

ROFL! Nothing better than bouncing a few ideas around on a lazy Sunday.

What kept the slaves in chains was the poor whites, your average slave had a better standard of living than any po white farmer, and when emancipation came along the ex-slave went from the frying pan to the fire. Cotton is a pain in the ass about twice a year, when you plant it, and when you pick it. Tween times there aint shit to do to it.
Women are slaves to their wombs. Most demand children, and when they travel that road feminism is a goof.

 

[NaokoSmith]

What kept the slaves in chains was the poor whites, your average slave had a better standard of living than any po white farmer, and when emancipation came along the ex-slave went from the frying pan to the fire. Cotton is a pain in the ass about twice a year, when you plant it, and when you pick it. Tween times there aint shit to do to it.
Women are slaves to their wombs. Most demand children, and when they travel that road feminism is a goof.

C'mon JB, you can do better than that biological determinist stuff on women. Change your formula!

Safebet
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68
When you want to be treated differently and as less than you will be. Drop the crutch and act like everyone else and you'll get farther in life.

Gee... how entitled and privileged, str8, white, male of you to think that way.

I like Lovecraft's representation of a black woman in Black Friday a lot, enough to think he's not just some typical str8 white male, although I would like to get a bit deeper than just: black people can think themselves out of the ghetto.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

C'mon JB, you can do better than that biological determinist stuff. Change your formula!

I'm a sociobiologist nazi.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I'm a sociobiologist nazi.

ROFLOL!

Was that piccie you posing as the elephant in the room with a KKK outfit on?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROFLOL!

Was that piccie you posing as the elephant in the room with a KKK outfit on?

It was a GOP elephant with KKK robes.

 

[NaokoSmith]

It was a GOP elephant with KKK robes.

The elephant is out of the bag at last!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The elephant is out of the bag at last!

Slavery is like pussy, once you get out of it you spend the rest of your life trying to get back in.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I grew up in an all black neighborhood. With two types of black friends. The ones that never acknowledged they were black and the ones who could not stop reminding everyone they were.

30 years later which ones do you think still live in that neighborhood and which ones have done better than themselves?

One guess.

"that never acknowledged they were black" REALLY? What did they do, pretend to be white?

I think what you really mean, is; "Never allowed their lower class status to hold them back in striving for middle class." And I question your veracity, anyway.

When you want to be treated differently and as less than you will be. Drop the crutch and act like everyone else and you'll get farther in life.

You mean--Look and act like a straight white man and the straight white men will leave you alone. Yeah, that works so well.

And there are skin treatments to handle the pesky melanin problem that the cops keep noticing.

Women are slaves to their wombs. Most demand children...

Yep-- except for the many who don't demand children.

 

[chocolatecookie3]

And back to the question that was asked... (not touching racial politics, even though I have many opinions)

I am trying to write longer stories, so I'm trying to avoid the formula I've been using:

1. single guy/girl is minding his/her own business
2. hot person walks in
3. they fuck

So far people like it, and of course I like it, but it would be nice to try something with character development and a plot. I don't want to be known as someone who only writes strokers!

 

[PennLady]

And back to the question that was asked... (not touching racial politics, even though I have many opinions)

I am trying to write longer stories, so I'm trying to avoid the formula I've been using:

1. single guy/girl is minding his/her own business
2. hot person walks in
3. they fuck

So far people like it, and of course I like it, but it would be nice to try something with character development and a plot. I don't want to be known as someone who only writes strokers!

LOL Nothing wrong with writing strokers. But I want to know they why and the how between your steps. What makes the hot person notice the quiet one (who may also be hot)? Who makes the first move? Does either one resist?

 

[jomar]

I keep wanting to say something about how all stories have the same formula...chase a man up a tree, shake the tree, get the man down from the tree...but can't figure out how.

 

[sr71plt]

I keep wanting to say something about how all stories have the same formula...chase a man up a tree, shake the tree, get the man down from the tree...but can't figure out how.

The technical literary terms for this are: dilemma, tension, resolution.