New Formulas

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

When I write a story my imagination races. I write it with the voice it comes to me with. It's almost like it's being dictated to me and always seems to have a mood and language that is so appropriate. I write it and think it's wonderful. I read it over and over and get it right.I think it's one of my best.

But.....
Some months later I read it again. The voice I've written it with hasn't come through, it hasn't translated to paper. Some times I don't remember it being that way at all. Particularly, there is a disjointedness. The words and phrasing are terrible. If I want to, I can reread it and eventually find the voice I used and it makes sense again. That voice though is inadequate to present the story with. If I have trouble finding it I know no one else could be expected to find it.

I go through it and make extensive changes. After the edit it's much better. I leave it a few more months and do the same again. The story is now developing a cohesiveness.


I wonder whether this happens for other people and what they do about it. How can I give that story its reviews with only a few hours between them instead of having to wait for months. Am I the only one?

I found an aid thats useful to me. What I do to calibrate my imagination is recollect something from long ago. Time tends to erode all the grit, and polish what matters, so that what youre left with is a gem. Like this example from 25 years ago:

A young woman was hired at the mental health center I worked for. She was 24 and I was 39. The first time I saw her was when she sat next to me at a meeting. During a break she said to me, DO YOU LIKE MY NEW SHOES? (patent leather maryjanes) LOTSA MEN TRY TO LOOK UP A GIRLS SKIRT BY THE SHINE ON HER SHOES. At the end of the meeting she invited me to see her office. At her office I put my hand up her skirt and got a blowjob. Thats all I remember of that day. Its a nugget I can use in a story. Enough nuggets make a story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I collect interesting stuff...bits of glass, feathers, polished stones, and tidbits like this:

Out in my yard yesterday I found a pizza order form. On the order form is the phone number of a woman who lives next door. She's an accountant and obsessive-compulsive about the appearance of her yard. Plus there's a fence tween our properties. She installed the fence to stop leaves from blowing onto her grass. The fence catches paper, too. And the form was on my side of the fence. The pizza order form with the phone number may be useful in a story.

 

[andy_charles]

I think you have to find your feet to start with, but the beauty of writing is you can literally go anywhere; especially erotica, because it can transcend so many different genres. I've done a little bit of satire, light horror and a straight formulaic novella; each is a different challenge to write.

My last submission, admittedly over a year and a half ago, The Affair, was written in the present tense. I felt that, as I was trying to write something that focussed more on relationships, it needed to be in this tense; I think it worked the best for it.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

I found an aid thats useful to me. What I do to calibrate my imagination is recollect something from long ago. Time tends to erode all the grit, and polish what matters, so that what youre left with is a gem. Like this example from 25 years ago:

A young woman was hired at the mental health center I worked for. She was 24 and I was 39. The first time I saw her was when she sat next to me at a meeting. During a break she said to me, DO YOU LIKE MY NEW SHOES? (patent leather maryjanes) LOTSA MEN TRY TO LOOK UP A GIRLS SKIRT BY THE SHINE ON HER SHOES. At the end of the meeting she invited me to see her office. At her office I put my hand up her skirt and got a blowjob. Thats all I remember of that day. Its a nugget I can use in a story. Enough nuggets make a story.

I've thought about this- it's sage advice. I suspect I am thinking of a scene and it is good. How ever, in trying to write the context around it in terms that are similar it is too difficult and the whole context can collapse.
I have thought of using lead ons- for example, make brief mention of a woman's shoes and then in the next scene develop it into something that supports the story. It leads to her knickers and the next paragraph is about her knickers and there is a brief mention of her thighs which becomes the subject of the next paragraph.
Thank you for being helpful

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I've thought about this- it's sage advice. I suspect I am thinking of a scene and it is good. How ever, in trying to write the context around it in terms that are similar it is too difficult and the whole context can collapse.
I have thought of using lead ons- for example, make brief mention of a woman's shoes and then in the next scene develop it into something that supports the story. It leads to her knickers and the next paragraph is about her knickers and there is a brief mention of her thighs which becomes the subject of the next paragraph.
Thank you for being helpful

You reminded me of another old memory, this one going back to 1980. I was doing construction work at the time. One of the guys suggested that he and I go to a local nude bar after work. What for I asked? To get drunk and horny. What for I asked? So we can go to a motel. What for I asked? I wasnt a naif but it made no sense to me to get excited by girls then have sex with a guy. It still doent add up. But as Einstein said of his relativity theory, ITS NOT LOGICAL ITS MATHEMATICAL.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think you have to find your feet to start with, but the beauty of writing is you can literally go anywhere; especially erotica, because it can transcend so many different genres. I've done a little bit of satire, light horror and a straight formulaic novella; each is a different challenge to write.

My last submission, admittedly over a year and a half ago, The Affair, was written in the present tense. I felt that, as I was trying to write something that focussed more on relationships, it needed to be in this tense; I think it worked the best for it.

Translation: Look toward the floor or the foot of your bed.

 

[andy_charles]

Translation: Look toward the floor or the foot of your bed.

Meh??

 

[Ironiclaconic]

Dear Mr. Johnson,

I never used to believe these kind of stories, but then last summer in London, something happened with a vat of molasses, a stolen truck of prosthetic limbs, and the Chinese women's gymnastics team...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Dear Mr. Johnson,

I never used to believe these kind of stories, but then last summer in London, something happened with a vat of molasses, a stolen truck of prosthetic limbs, and the Chinese women's gymnastics team...

When I worked at the psychiatric hospital I saw more naked women, and observed more sex than I ever saw at any of the brothels I visited in Germany or Spain. It was wild and unreal. The cops brought in crazee crazee women, and the nurses fucked the orderlies late at night. Lonely ladies usta call me up in the middle of the night, on the Crisis Line, and some came down for a lil one on one attention in the examination room.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

You reminded me of another old memory, this one going back to 1980. I was doing construction work at the time. One of the guys suggested that he and I go to a local nude bar after work. What for I asked? To get drunk and horny. What for I asked? So we can go to a motel. What for I asked? I wasnt a naif but it made no sense to me to get excited by girls then have sex with a guy. It still doent add up. But as Einstein said of his relativity theory, ITS NOT LOGICAL ITS MATHEMATICAL.

Strange story- one that promotes exercise- I'd be running. But as you say- small anecdotes can be made into big stories.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Strange story- one that promotes exercise- I'd be running. But as you say- small anecdotes can be made into big stories.

Odd incidents can make stories interesting, odd thoughts can make a character interesting. Like this gem I dreamed up at lunch: THE POSTER IS NOT A LICENSED DOCTOR BUT PLAYED DOCTOR A LOT AS A CHILD.

 

[MichaelWest]

Actually I prefer one star to a luke warm three: Oh, it was OK. I'm grateful that the person told me why they found the story hard going.

I do not write and submit here to gather gold stars, in fact my scores seem rather midland at best. I have never felt the need to turn-off the voting or the comments from the anonymous, because through the chafe I have gotten great comments, some helpful critiques and some kind flattery. The feedback, no matter how scant, helps me see how the writing worked or not.

I have worked to find my formula, the style that conveys the vision I have for stories, the little i have submitted has been experimental, neither my best or my worst, not always what I thought the writing should be, but a piece of the evolution. I may never be a great literary figure, but I do enjoy putting words to paper and having them provide entertainment.

 

[JackLuis]

The problem with not having a formula is that it's hard to let the characters write the story. Mine always want to get nasty!

And, of course, Shelia wants every chapter to end with a shivering climax.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Dear Mr. Johnson,

I never used to believe these kind of stories, but then last summer in London, something happened with a vat of molasses, a stolen truck of prosthetic limbs, and the Chinese women's gymnastics team...

That sounds like the start to a Chester Himes novel!

=JBJ
Thanks! I had a hunch I wasnt exploring virgin forest.

I think you'd like the post-structuralists.
(I expect you've already gone through Henry Louis Gates Jr's The Signifying Monkey and the thoughts on literature of Ralph Ellison and Richard Wright.)

 

[NaokoSmith]

I do not write and submit here to gather gold stars, in fact my scores seem rather midland at best. I have never felt the need to turn-off the voting or the comments from the anonymous, because through the chafe I have gotten great comments, some helpful critiques and some kind flattery. The feedback, no matter how scant, helps me see how the writing worked or not.

I have worked to find my formula, the style that conveys the vision I have for stories, the little i have submitted has been experimental, neither my best or my worst, not always what I thought the writing should be, but a piece of the evolution. I may never be a great literary figure, but I do enjoy putting words to paper and having them provide entertainment.

No I don't come on to collect stars either. I just try to interpret the application of them as additional feedback on my stuff. I think of one star as sometimes meaning: This was too original for me. I'm with that! Of course, it might just be It sucked but when it comes in combination with a load of 5 stars, I'm inclined to think not. It just is hard to judge when you break a mould/mold whether you're still writing well, since people often judge on the basis of whether they felt comfortable with the story rather than finer points of writing skill and whether it took them somewhere new.

 

[MichaelWest]

I just try to interpret the application of them as additional feedback on my stuff.

I agree. You get more votes than comments here, but a vote can reflect be anything from "I hate it", to I found a typo and you "pissed me off". Very hard to figure out without context.

I encourage any participation on my story, even the one-star vote. It is disheartening to get that without any other feedback. Personally, I won't give a one-vote even if I hate it on the writing merits. I will send a message instead. I assume that anyone who puts something here has taken a big step and deserves a modicum of courtesy, one author to another.

 

[sr71plt]

Personally, I won't give a one-vote even if I hate it on the writing merits. I will send a message instead.

I'll just move on. I don't see it as my mission to "correct" anyone's writing unless they've asked me my opinion (and not just by leaving "votes" and "comments" turned on).

 

[NaokoSmith]

I agree. You get more votes than comments here, but a vote can reflect be anything from "I hate it", to I found a typo and you "pissed me off". Very hard to figure out without context.

I encourage any participation on my story, even the one-star vote. It is disheartening to get that without any other feedback. Personally, I won't give a one-vote even if I hate it on the writing merits. I will send a message instead. I assume that anyone who puts something here has taken a big step and deserves a modicum of courtesy, one author to another.

I guess that's why I appreciated my one star Amazon reviewer, who was willing to leave a comment saying why she found my story hard work. It was an interesting critical exercise in itself, trying to figure out what it meant! She started by saying she gave my story one star because it was the least you could give but then she said I deserved at least one for taking the werewolf romance genre to a new level. I'm still not quite sure if she meant a new interesting level or a new level of debased bestiality .

I still think that having a boyfriend who is a werewolf would be more like having a really great pet dog than having an excitingly beastly hunk who happens to have hair. I wrote the story as a bit of a laugh, I put it on Amazon just because I usually do at the lowest price I could and the bugger sold like hot cakes! Then I got intrigued and started wondering if I could subvert the genre a bit more.

Now I'm really fascinated by that project although when I wrote the three gay werewolves meeting in an alleyway scene and I asked for advice from my hardcore fetishist gay friend from Berlin, and he was just turned on by it, that did feel a bit strange! ROFL.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Lemme make a point:

How many points would you award this YUOTUBE VIDEO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOzV41iwe-E

My guess is the score would prolly average 1.5 stars, mostly becuz most people havent a clue what theyre hearing or how to judge it. They prolly dont like the sound cuz its alien to their fund of experience.

I'd give it 4 stars becus its really good but there are one or two performances that are superior. Its a bitch to play, and the kid does it well, but a few do it better.

Its the same problem with the stories you submit. I'll be surprised if 25% of readers can read 1/2 of your words tho theyre simple, ordinary vocabulary.

 

[MichaelWest]

I'll just move on. I don't see it as my mission to "correct" anyone's writing unless they've asked me my opinion (and not just by leaving "votes" and "comments" turned on).

To each their own. If I am moved enough to vote that poorly and have something constructive to say, I will because I would want that feedback; but no, I do not feel it is my job to help those I have had interaction with. I do the same with a five star vote. If I like it that much, I speak to why.

 

[lovecraft68]

As far as trying "new formulas" if it makes you feel better as a writer and its what you want to do to "stretch" as a writer than that is what you should do by all means.

But to go "out of norm" for the benefit of the reader? Don;t waste your time. First you're doing it to make someone happy who could care less about you and two, odds are it will do poorly because you went out of the expected trope of whatever genre you are writing in.

This was proven to me in my contest experience here. I entered every contest but Earthday from Winter 2011-winter 2012

My initial idea was to write outseide my box and make every story either different from my style or a different category.

Winter 2011 was a foot fetish romance. Decent score, low 4.7's after the last sweep, but not even close to placing.

V-day 2012 was an entry in mature which was my first shot at romance. Vastly different from my otehr work and did very well, but didn;t win because the site needed to dole out its annual W to a site fav in the sci fi category.

Next was Nude day and a group entry. Good score, just missed placing.

Summer was incest, but a long story that featured releuctance on both the part of the son and mother (unheard of in these boards!) good score etc....

Halloween, mother/son incest with a tiwst ending that left the readers debating whetehr it really was incest or not.

Then winter comes again and I anm sick of putting this much effort into a "new" type of story.

I took almost the same bunny from Nude day, gave it a X-mas theme and added more sex. It was so similar to one of my other stories another author left the comment that it was good, but seemed almost the same as another story. I mentioned several times in that thread I did not like the story and thought it stunk and had no hope for it.

Result? A final sweep score of 4.86 and a third place finish and a little blue W.

Moral of the story is, if different will make you happy and what you crave go for it. If you are looking for reader approval just give them the same thing you've been giving them.

 

[sr71plt]

To each their own. If I am moved enough to vote that poorly and have something constructive to say

It's only your judgment that it's constructive, isn't it? Quite often the need to instruct says more about the "instructor" than the other guy. A whole lot of people post stories here just for the enjoyment of it. This is not set up as a critique site. If they haven't made clear they want "constructive" criticism, I leave them alone. I don't assume that they want to hear anything but approval and some sort of favorable connection. If I can't give them that, I just walk off.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Should've added a link for Chester Himes.

Such a brilliant writer. In my edition of the books is an interview by a younger writer who asks about his time in prison, preparing to be outraged by a tale of injustice dealt out to an unjustly imprisoned black man. "Hell, no, I did it," Himes laughs.

He wrote the detective novels featuring the black cops Coffin Ed and Gravedigger Johnson because he was desperate for money, along the lines of a formula suggested by the publisher commissioning them. They are great stories, and also superbly written depictions of life in Harlem. He wrote to a formula but when he did it, he couldn't help writing against the grain. It's brilliant writing - and was sufficiently successful to get him out of his financial hole.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Should've added a link for Chester Himes.

Such a brilliant writer. In my edition of the books is an interview by a younger writer who asks about his time in prison, preparing to be outraged by a tale of injustice dealt out to an unjustly imprisoned black man. "Hell, no, I did it," Himes laughs.

He wrote the detective novels featuring the black cops Coffin Ed and Gravedigger Johnson because he was desperate for money, along the lines of a formula suggested by the publisher commissioning them. They are great stories, and also superbly written depictions of life in Harlem. He wrote to a formula but when he did it, he couldn't help writing against the grain. It's brilliant writing - and was sufficiently successful to get him out of his financial hole.

I too esteem Chester Himes and have most of his books and short stories but I roll my eyes at his racial redemption after his powder was spent. The Harlem novels are classics, and everything that came later sux. I suspect that the real source of his bitterness was the failure of his post Harlem stuff.

I'm reminded of Pete the Pizzaman from my childhood. He had a tiny shop, and made two kinds of pizza, cheese and cheese/pepperoni. It was to die for. And he was popular. But too many of us try and improve on whats perfect. My metaphor for it is the prime number fallacy.

At the beginning of the number-line prime numbers are plentiful and frequent, but too soon theyre rare and far between. Improvements to anything take the same path. Its really hard to make a burger better or a pizza better or pussy better. Oh! something is bound to come along eventually but waiting for Santa takes less time.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I guess that's why I appreciated my one star Amazon reviewer, who was willing to leave a comment saying why she found my story hard work. It was an interesting critical exercise in itself, trying to figure out what it meant! She started by saying she gave my story one star because it was the least you could give but then she said I deserved at least one for taking the werewolf romance genre to a new level. I'm still not quite sure if she meant a new interesting level or a new level of debased bestiality .

I still think that having a boyfriend who is a werewolf would be more like having a really great pet dog than having an excitingly beastly hunk who happens to have hair. I wrote the story as a bit of a laugh, I put it on Amazon just because I usually do at the lowest price I could and the bugger sold like hot cakes! Then I got intrigued and started wondering if I could subvert the genre a bit more.

Now I'm really fascinated by that project although when I wrote the three gay werewolves meeting in an alleyway scene and I asked for advice from my hardcore fetishist gay friend from Berlin, and he was just turned on by it, that did feel a bit strange! ROFL.

You can do a lot with a werewolf vehicle, what a nifty way to destroy societys assholes.