New Formulas

[sr71plt]

Actually I did not know that. I remember the movie being out (haven't seen it yet), but didn't read much about it. I'm curious to see it, as it was directed by Peter Jackson and got good reviews, but I haven't gotten there yet.

I don't know how far you got into the Pitt series, but they follow roughly this pattern: murder is discovered; Pitt is assigned; Society is involved; Pitt's wife must undercover somehow to find things out; she does; murderer is found.

I dropped the Pitt series (Silence in Hanover Close has been collecting dust on my nightstand for several years) in favor of her WWI series because I was in a seminar with her when she was researching that series and it sounded interesting. But it wasn't interesting enough for me to continue that series either. I've read a few of the Monk ones too, I think.

 

[PennLady]

I dropped the Pitt series (Silence in Hanover Close has been collecting dust on my nightstand for several years) in favor of her WWI series because I was in a seminar with her when she was researching that series and it sounded interesting. But it wasn't interesting enough for me to continue that series either. I've read a few of the Monk ones too, I think.

Ha. Silence in Hanover Close is the one I have now and seem in no hurry to finish. I like the Monk series better, I think, although that certainly shares some elements with the Pitt series.

BTW, you were right, Kate Winslet did portray the Anne Perry character in Heavenly Creatures, although at that point she was Juliet Hulme. She adopted "Anne Perry" many years later.

 

[NaokoSmith]

It is a fun thread, but credit where it's due -- Cruel2BKind started it.

So sorry Cruel! Hope you can forgive me. It is a really good thread.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I have said, and stick by it, that the writer should write the story they want to tell. If it sticks to established formulae, no problem, just tell it well. If it does not, don't worry too much about reader reaction. If they are boggled, well, they are boggled. It's not your responsibility to continually not boggle them.

Thanks for that, PennLady. It's just that with the commentators being boggled and bogged down in saying they feel confused although they are hanging in there with the story, the ratings are one way to tell if the story is reaching anyone via my experimental writing.

 

[HeyAll]

Overall I use the same writing format. ie starting it off with an intro, breaking it off into sections, ect...


But I do try to change the vibe and theme of the story each time. For instance, one story will find the lead female character discovering her slutty side, and it gets told from a 3rd person pov. Then maybe the next story will be from the male character's pov and him and the lady are of equal intelligence and sexual experience. ect...

I always try to change it up a little or else it would get boring to write.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Writers don't owe "loyalty" in theme or formula. As Bogart said, "The only thing you owe the public is a good performance." If you don't like the story, fine, but that doesn't mean it's no good, and it doesn't mean I'm throwing any "loyalty" away. It just means I'm trying something different, and if you can't respect just that, then well, too bad..

Holy fuck!

Pretentious much?

(BTW, in case you haven't noticed, this is just a porn story site. You ain't writing War and Peace and you sure as hell ain't Tolstoy! So just get over your big, bad self, K?)

 

[lovecraft68]

Holy fuck!

Pretentious much?

(BTW, in case you haven't noticed, this is just a porn story site. You ain't writing War and Peace and you sure as hell ain't Tolstoy! So just get over your big, bad self, K?)

It's why she gets along so well with Pilot.

Perhaps they had lunch together once.

After all any author you mention Pilot has dined with and I am sure taught how to write.

BTW good thing Tolstoy isn't on here, shit gave me a headache.

 

[PennLady]

Thanks for that, PennLady. It's just that with the commentators being boggled and bogged down in saying they feel confused although they are hanging in there with the story, the ratings are one way to tell if the story is reaching anyone via my experimental writing.

Well, there is something to be said, I think, with examining the content of such comments and seeing if there's merit. I've thought that if you get several comments remarking on the same thing -- good or bad -- it's worth a look. You may find out that you didn't word something as well as you wanted to, or even forgot something you wanted to put in.

Holy fuck!

Pretentious much?

(BTW, in case you haven't noticed, this is just a porn story site. You ain't writing War and Peace and you sure as hell ain't Tolstoy! So just get over your big, bad self, K?)

I had a feeling I was making a mistake responding to you, and I was right. Whatever. I stand by it -- it is not a writer's obligation to write the same story over again to satisfy readers.

 

[sr71plt]

After all any author you mention Pilot has dined with and I am sure taught how to write.

I knew you'd go there. I'll repeat what I've said before. I'm not going to rewrite my life in smaller letters just because you are stuck working in a warehouse and dreaming of fucking and torturing your sister.

You're just dripping in pea-brained obsessive jealousy.

 

[sr71plt]

it is not a writer's obligation to write the same story over again to satisfy readers.

No, but it's also not an obligation that they not do so if doing so satisfies them more than not. I've heard John Grisham complain about his legal thrillers contract and how bored he is in writing them (while not having huge amounts of success in writing what he says he wants to write--even with assured sales on his name alone). But he keeps on writing the legal thrillers because it pays for his lifestyle (and he admits that it does and that's why he keeps doing it).

 

[SevenSquared]

SevenSquared is an alt of Lovecraft? Interesting.

You've got to admit, we had you fooled for a long time

 

[PennLady]

No, but it's also not an obligation that they not do so if doing so satisfies them more than not. I've heard John Grisham complain about his legal thrillers contract and how bored he is in writing them (while not having huge amounts of success in writing what he says he wants to write--even with assured sales on his name alone). But he keeps on writing the legal thrillers because it pays for his lifestyle (and he admits that it does and that's why he keeps doing it).

That's fine, and I have no problem there. That's Grisham's decision, after all. It reminds me of actors who say they take the big paycheck (and often bad) movies because it lets them do the smaller indie projects they enjoy and couldn't otherwise finance.

I've had a couple people tell me I should write more "serious" stuff, and maybe I will, but I also enjoy writing stuff for this site that is on the lighter side. I'm all for fluff.

I think writers should write what they like, and of course they take a chance when they go outside their normal box, presuming they have a fan base. If readers don't like it, well, them's the breaks -- that's the flip side of what I was saying before. I don't think writers particularly owe readers a never-ending string of stories in the same genre; but readers aren't obligated to purchase and/or read those different stories either.

 

[sr71plt]

You've got to admit, we had you fooled for a long time

Yep, you sure did.

 

[Bramblethorn]

A small example of this is Nora Roberts, who writes romantic mystery novels under the name JD Robb. It's hardly a secret, but I'm sure a lot of people who like her "Nora Roberts" books probably wouldn't like the "JD Robb" books. I like both.

Yep, sometimes it's just a handy way to let readers know what to expect. See also Iain Banks vs Iain M. Banks (sci-fi).

Actually I did not know that. I remember the movie being out (haven't seen it yet), but didn't read much about it. I'm curious to see it, as it was directed by Peter Jackson and got good reviews, but I haven't gotten there yet.

I liked it, and I'd recommend it to writers who are interested in obsession themes (LaRascasse, I'm looking at you!) Made in the days when PJ used SFX when the story demanded it, rather than "whenever he can squeeze it in"...

 

[Bramblethorn]

Holy fuck!

Pretentious much?

(BTW, in case you haven't noticed, this is just a porn story site. You ain't writing War and Peace and you sure as hell ain't Tolstoy! So just get over your big, bad self, K?)

Was there some other version of PL's post that I missed? Because I don't see anything in hers where she made any grand claims about her own work.

 

[jomar]

Holy fuck!

Pretentious much?

(BTW, in case you haven't noticed, this is just a porn story site. You ain't writing War and Peace and you sure as hell ain't Tolstoy! So just get over your big, bad self, K?)

So hey, Stella noted some business success of yours and I join her in congratulating you. I do, however, wonder if, perhaps, such success is in an endeavor other than sales?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I made a discovery tonite. Based on my experience some brainiac prolly discovered the same epiphany 20 centuries ago but its new to me. Musicians reading the same score play the music their own way, and so it is with readers of prose. Regardless of how you write prose the reader interprets it.

 

[jomar]

I made a discovery tonite. Based on my experience some brainiac prolly discovered the same epiphany 20 centuries ago but its new to me. Musicians reading the same score play the music their own way, and so it is with readers of prose. Regardless of how you write prose the reader interprets it.

The world is a Rorschach.

ETA: He looks like Brad Pitt, by the way.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I made a discovery tonite. Based on my experience some brainiac prolly discovered the same epiphany 20 centuries ago but its new to me. Musicians reading the same score play the music their own way, and so it is with readers of prose. Regardless of how you write prose the reader interprets it.

Who are you, and what have you done with JBJ?

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

When I write a story my imagination races. I write it with the voice it comes to me with. It's almost like it's being dictated to me and always seems to have a mood and language that is so appropriate. I write it and think it's wonderful. I read it over and over and get it right.I think it's one of my best.

But.....
Some months later I read it again. The voice I've written it with hasn't come through, it hasn't translated to paper. Some times I don't remember it being that way at all. Particularly, there is a disjointedness. The words and phrasing are terrible. If I want to, I can reread it and eventually find the voice I used and it makes sense again. That voice though is inadequate to present the story with. If I have trouble finding it I know no one else could be expected to find it.

I go through it and make extensive changes. After the edit it's much better. I leave it a few more months and do the same again. The story is now developing a cohesiveness.

I wonder whether this happens for other people and what they do about it. How can I give that story its reviews with only a few hours between them instead of having to wait for months. Am I the only one?

 

[NaokoSmith]

I made a discovery tonite. Based on my experience some brainiac prolly discovered the same epiphany 20 centuries ago but its new to me. Musicians reading the same score play the music their own way, and so it is with readers of prose. Regardless of how you write prose the reader interprets it.

The post-structuralist thinker Roland Barthes called this The Death of the Author. In his essay, just as you say in comparison to music, he argued that the person in control of the text is not the writer but the reader, who can read it in different ways from other readers and even from how the author imagines. In the same way, some artists will say that how the person looks at their painting is the piece of art, not the material object that is the painting. I forget her name just now but one artist put up labels under empty spaces in a gallery referring to pictures which had been stolen and invited the person standing in front of the space to note down what they could remember of the painting - that became the missing work of art.

 

[NekoParks]

The post-structuralist thinker Roland Barthes called this The Death of the Author. In his essay, just as you say in comparison to music, he argued that the person in control of the text is not the writer but the reader, who can read it in different ways from other readers and even from how the author imagines. In the same way, some artists will say that how the person looks at their painting is the piece of art, not the material object that is the painting. I forget her name just now but one artist put up labels under empty spaces in a gallery referring to pictures which had been stolen and invited the person standing in front of the space to note down what they could remember of the painting - that became the missing work of art.

Thank you for posting the link. I've got to read this essay.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Well, there is something to be said, I think, with examining the content of such comments and seeing if there's merit. I've thought that if you get several comments remarking on the same thing -- good or bad -- it's worth a look. You may find out that you didn't word something as well as you wanted to, or even forgot something you wanted to put in.

Totally. Rather than accepting the death of the author, I hope for some kind of meeting of minds between what I like to write and the readers like to read. A site like this one offers a fantastic opportunity to ask the readers how they are reading something new and experimental. We're no longer sitting in our garrets churning out lonely masterpieces (or stroke stories), we can reach out from wherever we are to say: How was it for you? That offers a real chance to please yourself as a writer but accept a responsibility to your audience - since you are putting the work out in public, not just hugging it to yourself. It's a lot of fun, too, although you have to be a good submissive and not run away crying if they are a bit rough with you.

I just got a one star review on Amazon. I think you can take those down, can't you? But I put up a comment in reply, saying, Yes, you were right. This story is not the kind that you were expecting, some people like that and some don't.. Actually I prefer one star to a luke warm three: Oh, it was OK. I'm grateful that the person told me why they found the story hard going.

 

[sr71plt]

I had an essay published in a literary journal on this theme, based on Moby Dick, one of the most often and deeply (and sometimes hilariously) analyzed novels. It used a joke that floats around university creative writing programs.

English professors find themselves in a chit-chat group at a cocktail party and bored with themselves.

One playfully whispers to another, "Psst. Want to hear a secret?"

"Yes, what?"

"Moby Dick. It was just a whale."

The essay point was that books/short stories can be interpreted separately by whoever, based on where they are coming from and where they want/need to go. I included a long quote from a New York Times essay making the whale into some complex universal sexual symbol of the post-industrial age impotence of modern man.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The post-structuralist thinker Roland Barthes called this The Death of the Author. In his essay, just as you say in comparison to music, he argued that the person in control of the text is not the writer but the reader, who can read it in different ways from other readers and even from how the author imagines. In the same way, some artists will say that how the person looks at their painting is the piece of art, not the material object that is the painting. I forget her name just now but one artist put up labels under empty spaces in a gallery referring to pictures which had been stolen and invited the person standing in front of the space to note down what they could remember of the painting - that became the missing work of art.

Thanks! I had a hunch I wasnt exploring virgin forest.