New feature coming: Story Versioning

[NoTalentHack]

For those that haven't been following the Story Game feature thread, Manu posted this:

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/posting-a-new-story-game.1612657/post-99148652

One of the things that Story Games are helpful for is to test our new Versioning System. You can see the Version Changes in the Story Info Box on the Story Game Space Heat, for example. There is more work to do on Versioning, but once the bugs are worked out on Story Games, we intend to make it available for Stories, Audio, and all other works published on Literotica. New versions do have to be approved, but it should streamline the process. Game developers roll out updates and expansion packs more often than Story authors, so we hope that it will make that process easier and faster.

It sounds like sometime in the (relatively) near future, editing our existing stories will be easier.

 

[Bazzle]

or more confusing?

 

[Voboy]

or more confusing?

This.

"Versioning" is what has happened to Star Wars since 1977, and now nobody knows which one everyone's talking about during discussions.

"Star Wars? ANH? Ep IV? Wait, the original release? The re-release in '78? The Remaster in '97?" It's annoying as fuck.

Irony: "People who alter or destroy works of art, and our cultural heritage, for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians... Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see ... the past generation as it saw itself, and how it worked with the mediums that were available to it."

That was George Lucas in 1988. Alas, he didn't take his own damn advice.

 

[NoTalentHack]

This.

"Versioning" is what has happened to Star Wars since 1977, and now nobody knows which one everyone's talking about during discussions.

"Star Wars? ANH? Ep IV? Wait, the original release? The re-release in '78? The Remaster in '97?" It's annoying as fuck.

Irony: "People who alter or destroy works of art, and our cultural heritage, for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians... Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see ... the past generation as it saw itself, and how it worked with the mediums that were available to it."

That was George Lucas in 1988. Alas, he didn't take his own damn advice.

Eh. I'd like to be able to edit small imperfections in my work without having to go through a whole rigamarole. Lush has something like this (not as advanced as a whole version system, but a cleaner way of editing existing works), and it's fine. Just having a thing that says "there are multiple versions of this" is a big step forward from what we have now, where you can already make edits to your work to fix things you didn't like, but the old stuff is just lost entirely.

 

[KeithD]

Not interested.

 

[alohadave]

That was George Lucas in 1988. Alas, he didn't take his own damn advice.

It's amazing how your attitude changes when you are trying to screw your ex-wife.

 

[Voboy]

Eh. I'd like to be able to edit small imperfections in my work without having to go through a whole rigamarole. Lush has something like this (not as advanced as a whole version system, but a cleaner way of editing existing works), and it's fine. Just having a thing that says "there are multiple versions of this" is a big step forward from what we have now, where you can already make edits to your work to fix things you didn't like, but the old stuff is just lost entirely.

Honest question, from a guy who firmly believes it better be completely finished before it's published:

If you didn't like the published version so much that you felt the need to edit it, then why wouldn't you want the old version to be "lost entirely?" You plainly felt it needed to be altered; what's the value in keeping the (in your view) irredeemably flawed version around?

I'm not understanding this at all. Help me.

 

[onehitwanda]

I'll be right back, I'm painting Starry Night version 2.03a1-patch2

 

[TheLobster]

I'll be right back, I'm painting Starry Night version 2.03a1-patch2

We should just scrap the whole submission form and send the stories for publication as Git pull requests.

 

[onehitwanda]

We should just scrap the whole submission form and send the stories for publication as Git pull requests.

to be honest, git would be a better editing experience.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Honest question, from a guy who firmly believes it better be completely finished before it's published:

If you didn't like the published version so much that you felt the need to edit it, then why wouldn't you want the old version to be "lost entirely?" You plainly felt it needed to be altered; what's the value in keeping the (in your view) irredeemably flawed version around?

I'm not understanding this at all. Help me.

It depends on the nature of the edit. If it's just "whoops, attributed this line of dialogue to the wrong character," sure, I don't mind that screwup being lost to time. But if it's something where I put a work out and people pointed out, "hey, this doesn't seem to make sense, or rings true, or whatever," and I think it's a fair criticism (especially if it's because I thought I'd made something clear that I hadn't), I'm not opposed to going back and adding additional material. If I do that, I want the previous version to exist, because I'd like the record of it, and because others might prefer the older version.

I dunno. I kind of take the view that nothing we do here (and I mean on Earth) is permanent, and that includes the stories we write. I like that older versions of my stories exist in Google Docs. I like that readers can point out, "hey, this doesn't make sense," and they can have a point. Not "I didn't like this," because IDGAF about that. But "this is qualitatively worse because you weren't clear, which you could have fixed with like an additional line of dialog."

I'll give a concrete example. In one of the first stories I wrote, After the Future is Gone, there's a scene where the MMC gets jealous of the way the FMC's former workout buddy talks to her. He leaves the gym, and she shows up at his door berating him for this, essentially saying, "I'm not your ex, and I wouldn't do to you what she did." In my head, it was perfectly clear. The readers, though, pointed out, "Hey, she never actually explains WHY he shouldn't have gotten pissed, just that he shouldn't have."

And that was a fair criticism. Adding maybe four or five sentences would have cast all three characters in a more favorable light, but I was too close to see it when I released it. If I ever decide to release it commercially, I've already decided I'd make that change, because it's a better choice.

But I'd like to have that old version available, too, because I think it's important to be honest about changes that I do make and why I did. That is the cardinal sin that Lucas committed, IMHO: he didn't just change the original trilogy, but he made it hard to legally get the older versions.

 

[Voboy]

It depends on the nature of the edit. If it's just "whoops, attributed this line of dialogue to the wrong character," sure, I don't mind that screwup being lost to time. But if it's something where I put a work out and people pointed out, "hey, this doesn't seem to make sense, or rings true, or whatever," and I think it's a fair criticism (especially if it's because I thought I'd made something clear that I hadn't), I'm not opposed to going back and adding additional material. If I do that, I want the previous version to exist, because I'd like the record of it, and because others might prefer the older version.

I dunno. I kind of take the view that nothing we do here (and I mean on Earth) is permanent, and that includes the stories we write. I like that older versions of my stories exist in Google Docs. I like that readers can point out, "hey, this doesn't make sense," and they can have a point. Not "I didn't like this," because IDGAF about that. But "this is qualitatively worse because you weren't clear, which you could have fixed with like an additional line of dialog."

I'll give a concrete example. In one of the first stories I wrote, After the Future is Gone, there's a scene where the MMC gets jealous of the way the FMC's former workout buddy talks to her. He leaves the gym, and she shows up at his door berating him for this, essentially saying, "I'm not your ex, and I wouldn't do to you what she did." In my head, it was perfectly clear. The readers, though, pointed out, "Hey, she never actually explains WHY he shouldn't have gotten pissed, just that he shouldn't have."

And that was a fair criticism. Adding maybe four or five sentences would have cast all three characters in a more favorable light, but I was too close to see it when I released it. If I ever decide to release it commercially, I've already decided I'd make that change, because it's a better choice.

Thanks. It still makes no sense to me, but I appreciate hearing this side of it. I do think, and always have, that once we publish something, it now belongs to the fans for good or for ill. I've had stories that have missed the mark, but it's never occurred to me to go back and change them. I just leave them and move on to the next.

But I'd like to have that old version available, too, because I think it's important to be honest about changes that I do make and why I did. That is the cardinal sin that Lucas committed, IMHO: he didn't just change the original trilogy, but he made it hard to legally get the older versions.

This makes more sense to me.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Eh. I'd like to be able to edit small imperfections in my work without having to go through a whole rigamarole. Lush has something like this (not as advanced as a whole version system, but a cleaner way of editing existing works), and it's fine. Just having a thing that says "there are multiple versions of this" is a big step forward from what we have now, where you can already make edits to your work to fix things you didn't like, but the old stuff is just lost entirely.

Honest question: Where does it say that you won't have to "go through a whole rigamarole" anymore?
I mean, what's the process right now? You post the story as an edit, it gets checked and approved like any other story... and then replaces the old version. And what Manu wrote sounds like there's won't be any change to that on the authors' side:

New versions do have to be approved, but it should streamline the process.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Eh. I'd like to be able to edit small imperfections in my work without having to go through a whole rigamarole. Lush has something like this (not as advanced as a whole version system, but a cleaner way of editing existing works), and it's fine. Just having a thing that says "there are multiple versions of this" is a big step forward from what we have now, where you can already make edits to your work to fix things you didn't like, but the old stuff is just lost entirely.

Or we could dump stuff out quickly to get our feedback fix and fiddle around with our stories essentially giving the readers perpetual works in progress. Quality of stories will almost certainly go down. The majority of stories here are never edited. If we can edit after publishing with ease, all kinds of rough draft crap will be posted and if the initial feedback is meh, then authors will never bother to edit. The lack of editing will get worse. We all know the mentality: author writes story, if feedback is good they write sequel, if feedback is meh they drop it. If we can edit easily after publishing, this can only get worse.

Or we could just have a little patience and do our best to get it right the first time.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Honest question: Where does it say that you won't have to "go through a whole rigamarole" anymore?
I mean, what's the process right now? You post the story as an edit, it gets checked and approved like any other story... and then replaces the old version. And what Manu wrote sounds like there's won't be any change to that on the authors' side:

It may be a bit of wishful thinking, admittedly. The current system for revising, though, is not great. In the less than two years that I've been here, someone's entire series got eaten when they revised a story and multiple people lost all their comments. Their current process really does seem like a bolt-on to the publishing system, something done manually that occasionally completely shits the bed. One would hope (again, wishful thinking) that a new system would address at least some of that.

 

[Bamagan]

Honest question: Where does it say that you won't have to "go through a whole rigamarole" anymore?
I mean, what's the process right now? You post the story as an edit, it gets checked and approved like any other story... and then replaces the old version. And what Manu wrote sounds like there's won't be any change to that on the authors' side:

If it works like many modern word processors, the editor/approver should be able to easily track changes between versions to see if the differences are minor things like spelling and grammar fixes that get a handwave pass, or if it's the addition/deletion of sentences and passages which might meaningfully change the content and require a little additional scrutiny to make sure it's not an end run around the content prohibitions.
Perhaps the site already has an easy way of comparing edits, but if their current process means that Laurel has to pull up the old text on one pages and the new one in another, or else just do the whole approval process on the new version, it could potentially be a big time saver on their end. Given how long edits often take, I'm inclined to believe that they do not currently have a simple method for comparing versions.

 

[Bamagan]

I'll be right back, I'm painting Starry Night version 2.03a1-patch2

I kind of like Mona Lisa more with a mustache.

 

[THBGato]

I would definitely welcome a simpler editing process.

 

[TheLobster]

I would definitely welcome a simpler editing process.

The ability to share drafts with others, even just via a unique URL with a random ID in it, would be much more useful than whatever this versioning feature is. It should look the same way as a published story (added benefit of acting like an actual preview) but remained unlisted until moderation approval and publication.

Ideally you'd have a proper permission system a'la Google Docs, of course, but let's be realistic.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There are a lot of good points being made in this thread. I believe that this feature mostly fits with story games since games in general get developed over time. For a game, it's natural to be able to fix bugs, add more content, and have newer versions with new paths, new characters, new options, whatever.
For a regular story, it does get kinda questionable to be able to alter it every now and then.

 

[lovecraft68]

Years later we can't go more then a few posts without "oops something went wrong" but oh, look! An even more complicated feature no one needed, that is going to send the rest of the site glitching, like all their changes do.

But a bi-sexual category? Pffftttt can't do that

Getting endless chaptered milking stories off of top lists and out of monthly contests? Can't do that, either

In fact, we don't listen to anything the people who make us money want, instead we do what we want, and let the site toadies get all excited about it to help us out.

Keep all the endless complications. People just want to write stories and people just want to read stories, in the grand scheme of the size of this sites authors/readership, no one cares.

 

[Yarglenurp]

I think it’s a good idea. Fix typos, edits, takes some of the load off of manual labor.

Bisexual category is an unnecessary idea too… everyone has their own idea of bisexual. Really, categories are an outdated idea since we now now have story tags. If I’ve got lesbian sex between sisters in a techno-sorcery world, I’d be conflicted on where to put it. It relies on an arbitrary ranking of categories.

 

[Voboy]

I think it’s a good idea. Fix typos, edits, takes some of the load off of manual labor.

I mean, I’ll gently point out that all of this should be done before publishing…

 

[Bamagan]

I mean, I’ll gently point out that all of this should be done before publishing…

I'll equally gently point out that even professionals miss things occasionally, and that sometimes tiny flaws can bother a person more than a big plot hole.

(And anyway, an egregious plot hole is just a sequel begging to happen).

 

[alohadave]

Years later we can't go more than a few posts without "oops something went wrong" but oh, look! An even more complicated feature no one needed, that is going to send the rest of the site glitching, like all their changes do.

But a bi-sexual category? Pffftttt can't do that

Getting endless chaptered milking stories off of top lists and out of monthly contests? Can't do that, either

In fact, we don't listen to anything the people who make us money want, instead we do what we want, and let the site toadies get all excited about it to help us out.

Keep all the endless complications. People just want to write stories and people just want to read stories, in the grand scheme of the size of this sites authors/readership, no one cares.

No one is forcing you to stay here. You should just go somewhere if you hate how the site is run as much as you claim.