New details emerge about the Pakistani tribal gang-rape

[Frimost]

Since yayati fucked-up my orginal thread with his incessant babbling (that krazy kurd), I decided to make a new one instead.

Boy, this shit just keeps getting better and better, dosen't it? In case you happen to be a moron, I was being sarcastic.

Looks like we bombed the wrong village, huh?

I think we have a new target for our boys in Afghanistan and its just across the border!

A update from the original report by Nando Times

 

[InnocentAngel81]

i'm actally speechless

 

[cybergirly]

The story keeps getting worse and worse.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Damn. That is so wrong it actually brought me out of my self imposed ban on Lit... It just goes to show that no matter what religion people have assumed power in there are some willing to abuse it...

 

[SINthysist]

I said what I needed to on the other thread, but before we get out a rope, these are tribes, in remote areas, waiting the 1800's, doing things the traditional way...

It was no different for us, in the beginning...

That's why you have to have standards, mores, and God in the Pledge. Plus the ability to point a finger at members of our OWN community and say, "Man, that's wrong..."

 

[phrodeau]

I said what I needed to on the other thread, but before we get out a rope, these are tribes, in remote areas, waiting the 1800's, doing things the traditional way...

It was no different for us, in the beginning...

That's why you have to have standards, mores, and God in the Pledge. Plus the ability to point a finger at members of our OWN community and say, "Man, that's wrong..."

DARK OF THE MOON by Howard Richardson and William Berney
Act II Scene 4 - Interior of the Church of God in Buck Creek, Smoky Mountains
(excerpt)
MRS. ALLEN: Oh Gawd, save my child.
HAGGLER: Sister Allen, what is yer sorrer?
MRS. ALLEN: I got a daughter, Lord, who strayed from the path, but she got no shame and she won't repent.
HAGGLER: Lay yer burden on the Lord, He understand.
MRS. ALLEN: I brung up Barbara in the ways a Gawd, but a witch boy spelled her, and tuck her soul away.
MR. ALLEN: That's the Lord's truth. She been witched.
MRS. ALLEN: She bedded he child, but she bore him a witch, and we had to burn hit with fire in the yard.
GROUP: The had to burn hit with fire in the yard.
MRS. ALLEN: But she won't leave the witch boy. She live in the house. So take away the spell, Gawd, and save my child.
HAGGLER: The Lord'll unspell her in He own way. Jes' listen fer the voice a the Lord.
BARBARA (who up to now has sat in stony defiance, refusing to take part in any of the service): He might could have spelled me, but I don't care! (She rises and faces the congregation.)
GROUP: She witched fer shore, she witched fer shore.
BARBARA (confronting them): He wunst were a witch, but he ain't no more! Conjur Woman change him to a man.
HAGGLER: Wunst you're a witch you can't git changed. Thar ain't no changin' a witch to a man.
GROUP: That right, Lord, thar ain't no changin'.
BARBARA: Conjur Woman change him, change him fer shore.
HAGGLER: What he have to do to git changed?
BARBARA: Hit warn't jes' him. I have to be faithful to him fer a year. And the year up to-night!
GROUP: Hit ain't up yit. Hit ain't up yit.
HAGGLER: And if you ain't what happen then?
BARBARA: Then he change back to a witch. But thar ain't no fear fer that. I'll keep my promise. I'll be true.
HAGGLER: The Lord He speakin' in a mighty voice. The Lord he tellin' me what to do!
MRS. ALLEN: What He say, Preacher Haggler? What He say?
HAGGLER: Barbara Allen, you a handmaiden a Gawd. You got to hep this valley and rid us of a witch.
ALL: A witch.
BARBARA: But he ain't no witch. He a man!
HAGGLER: He change back to a witch, and then he leave us be. You gotta break the spell and change him back.
BARBARA: But I promised him I'd be true!
HAGGLER: The Lord He talkin', Barbara Allen. Listen to He voice tell you what to do. You been walkin' after yer own way, walkin' in the valley a the shadow a darkness;
BARBARA: John! I need John! (She looks about her, frightened.)
MRS. ALLEN: He can't hep you now, gal.
BARBARA: He hep me if I find him.
(She starts out of the church, but MR. ALLEN rises in her path.)
MR. ALLEN: He don't love you no more, gal.
HAGGLER: You need the love a Gawd.
BARBARA: John still love me!
(She backs up before ALLEN and several others who have risen.)
MRS. BERGEN: Then how come he give you a witch fer a child?
(BARBARA buries her face in her hands.)
MARVIN: And why ain't he with you?
HAGGLER: He ain't here at church.
ALL: He ain't here at church.
BARBARA: He can't come to church.
GROUP: Hit cause he a witch, hit cause he a witch!
(BARBARA, in evident distress, turns to the rostrum.)
BARBARA: Oh, Preacher Haggler, what kin I do?
HAGGLER: You can't go agin the will a Gawd. The Lord He speakin' in a mighty voice.
MARVIN: Preacher Haggler! Preacher Haggler! I come her to-night to repent a my sin, but the Lord He tell me hit ain't no sin.
GROUP: Ain't no sin. Ain't no sin.
MARVIN: (as BARBARA watches in growing horror): I come here to repent a sin a lust. I been lustin' after a married woman, lustin' fer the flesh a Barbara Allen. But the Lord He tell me hit ain't no sin!
GROUP: Ain't no sin. Ain't no sin.
BARBARA (rushing toward the door): John! John.
HAGGLER (as several worshippers bar her way and force her back to the center): Git on yer knees, git and hear the voice a the Lord.
GROUP: Git on yer knees, git on yer knees, git on yer knees and git washed in the blood.
(BARBARA finds herself trapped by the congregation, who surround her, She turns one way and another, but cannot find an opening for escape.)
HAGGLER: Show her, Gawd, the fruit a her sin!
GROUP: Hep her, Gawd, see the trouble she in!
(BARBARA covers her face with her hands, swaying from side to side.)
HAGGLER: Listen to the Lord, He ease yer pain, wash away yer sin like the mountain rain.
GROUP: Like the mountain rain, like the mountain rain.
HAGGLER: Git on yer knees and confess yer shame.
BARBARA (crying): What kin I do? What kin I do?
HAGGLER: Ast the hep a Gawd. He see you through.
GROUP: Tell yer sin to Gawd He's shore to hear.
HAGGLER: Wash her in the blood a the Lamb, Lord.
GROUP: Wash her in the blood a the Lamb!
(BARBARA falls to her knees.)
BARBARA: Oh, my Jesus, take my sin away!
GROUP: Halleluiah, Lord, she startin' to pray!
HAGGLER: Moan hit, sister, fer the Lord to hear. He died on the cross to save you from sin. Marvin's here to hep you, jes' turn to him.
MARVIN (coming down to BARBARA, who is sobbing.): That right, Barbara, hit the will a Gawd.
(He picks her up and holds her against him despite her attempts to make him release her.)
GROUP: It the will a Gawd! The will a Gawd!
MARVIN: Feel my arms around you. They fer comfort and joy.
BARBARA: John!...John!
GROUP (as MARVIN and BARBARA sink to the floor): Halleluiah, Lord, she saved by the grace, she saved by the grace a the heavenly Lamb, by the grace a the heavenly Lamb.
(Through the last line JOHN'S voice is heard calling.)
JOHN: Barbara! Barbara Allen.
BLACKOUT

 

[solid_]

Since yayati fucked-up my orginal thread with his incessant babbling (that krazy kurd), I decided to make a new one instead.

Boy, this shit just keeps getting better and better, dosen't it? In case you happen to be a moron, I was being sarcastic.

Looks like we bombed the wrong village, huh?

I think we have a new target for our boys in Afghanistan and its just across the border!

A update from the original report by Nando Times

That is really sick I cant believe in this day and age that something like that can happen.

 

[p_p_man]

Since yayati fucked-up my orginal thread with his incessant babbling (that krazy kurd), I decided to make a new one instead.

Boy, this shit just keeps getting better and better, dosen't it? In case you happen to be a moron, I was being sarcastic.

Looks like we bombed the wrong village, huh?

I think we have a new target for our boys in Afghanistan and its just across the border!

A update from the original report by Nando Times

Like SINthysist I said what I had to say on the original thread and the only reason I can see for you to repeat the story is that you're trying and stir up some sort of verbal witch hunt.

What's your point Frimost?

And don't say because Yayati spoiled your original thread. It was still read.

ppman

 

[Frimost]

My f-ing point

My point pp_man is I'm fucking pissed off and this is NOT an isolated incident, maybe the fact it was handed down by a council, but the abuse and rape of women over there is COMMON place!

And our magistrates NEVER condoned the gang-rape of a innocent young women, no matter how far back, or how early and primitive early America was IT WAS NEVER THAT BAD!
Sure we had witch-burnings, but so do they so that is not an equivalent.

It’s happening far to often these days, that’s what's pissing me off, I'm constantly hearing of "honor killings" and women whose faces were splashed with burning acid because of some perceived insult to their husbands "honor"!

United Nations officials say there have been attacks on aid workers, extortion of their supplies, the torture and rape of Afghan civilians, and a gang rape of an international aid worker.

This was happened just a week or two ago Of course people like you pp-man were to busy dealing in bogus rumors about US abuses to traffic in legitimate abuses by the Afghans instead. It doesn’t matter who makes the allegation, Satan himself could make up a story about the US army being a bunch of evil pod-people and you and Redwave would believe him.

Anyway, back to the point, that is what is pissing me off. Here we have an innocent aid-worker, MORE one that was only there in the first place to help the people over there, and what gratitude does she get? What is the thanks she gets for coming all the way over there to save Afghan lives and risking her own in the process? She fucking gets gang-raped!

Besides, the fact that they even have these yahoos still living around in this day and age, whose fault is that? If they fucking spent their money on education and economic development in these tribal areas instead of developing nuclear weapons to keep-up with India for the last 50-years then we wouldn’t have these problems today!

 

[Frimost]

BTW, pp and sin

Back in the day our punishment for rapes here in the US were MUCH TOUGHER, NOT more lenient.
If this happened in OUR early days, the lot of them would be introduced to the hangman's noose soon enough!

 

[p_p_man]

Re: My f-ing point

My point pp_man is I'm fucking pissed off and this is NOT an isolated incident, maybe the fact it was handed down by a council, but the abuse and rape of women over there is COMMON place!

And our magistrates NEVER condoned the gang-rape of a innocent young women, no matter how far back, or how early and primitive early America was IT WAS NEVER THAT BAD!
Sure we had witch-burnings, but so do they so that is not an equivalent.

As you've re-raised the topic here's the reply I posted on your original thread. Of course your magistrates never condoned the gang rape of young women, but your laws allow the public witnessing of the execution of a convicted felon. Just as barbaric in the eyes of other countries...

Originally posted by me:

"I saw 'Deliverance' and...
there are backward societies who live in extreme, remote areas in most places in the world. Leaders of such societies have enormous power over the people they rule.

Although nobody can defend the action of this particular tribe at least the incident was reported to the police and now the whole thing, and the people involved, are under investigation by senior Pakistani Ministers.

Womens' Rights Groups and other activists as well as the world's media are now focused on a small area where, if measures are not taken to bring some sort of retribution on the leaders and the perpetrators, people will begin to ask the Pakistani Government some very difficult questions.

You're wrong Frimost to measure the whole by the few.

I also saw 'The Bandit Queen'. Now that's a life to read about. She survived against incredible odds and hardship (including many gang rapes) to eventually become a Member of Parliament after serving 11 years in prison after being implicated in one of the largest gang massacres in modern Indian history.

Where there are people like Phoolan Devi, who was eventually gunned down by an assassin, I have full faith that the attitude towards women will eventually change. But it will be a long uphill battle."

ppman

 

[Azwed]

We denounce these acts yet at the same time will not sign CEDAW which would at least show that we officialy support womens rights on the international scene and might even provide some additional support in these areas.

 

[Frimost]

p_p_man, OUR customs were YOUR customs! The colonialists were EUROPEANS, so any customs that WE had were ones that WE brought with us when we immigrated to the New World.

In addition, I admit that you have a point, but so do I as well. No, not all Pakistanis are as sick and twisted as these, but the overall degree with which most Islamic countries and Pakistan in particular treats women is horrendous. THIS particular case may be a rarity, but honor killings and acid attacks on women there are not. Something has to be done, I don't know what. What I do know is that in this case a couple bullets to the back of the head for a few of the chosen perpetrators of this crime seems appropriate in my book.

 

[bored1]

p_p_man, OUR customs were YOUR customs! The colonialists were EUROPEANS, so any customs that WE had were ones that WE brought with us when we immigrated to the New World.

In addition, I admit that you have a point, but so do I as well. No, not all Pakistanis are as sick and twisted as these, but the overall degree with which most Islamic countries and Pakistan in particular treats women is horrendous. THIS particular case may be a rarity, but honor killings and acid attacks on women there are not. Something has to be done, I don't know what. What I do know is that in this case a couple bullets to the back of the head for a few of the chosen perpetrators of this crime seems appropriate in my book.

The old "bullet" in the back of the head trick, Its always an effective way to change ones behavior

 

[Cheyenne]

I missed the first thread, but this story turned my stomach.

Did anyone even notice that one of the council members was her uncle? It couldn't get much worse unless her dad was ordered to join in, too. (And yes, I see that it doesn't say if he was one of the four gang bangers. But- was he?)

 

[mistressastra]

What I don't understand about these "crimes and punishments" is if its the men who commit them, why do the sisters/mothers have to pay? Then they are so dishonoured, they either get banished (if lucky), murdered or kill themselves. Doesn't make sense except that again womens lives have little value. I thank the gods I live in the US, not a perfect place by far but better than most places I have read about or visited. And I say most.

 

[bored1]

I missed the first thread, but this story turned my stomach.

Did anyone even notice that one of the council members was her uncle? It couldn't get much worse unless her dad was ordered to join in, too. (And yes, I see that it doesn't say if he was one of the four gang bangers. But- was he?)

In the article I read,Dad tried to stop it. But in reality who really knows? This kind of behavior is SO wrong.

 

[scylis]

The old "bullet" in the back of the head trick, Its always an effective way to change ones behavior

dead people can't rape again. or kill again. or torture again. it's as simple as that.

that's why i ply my arts in the trade i do. i retain full rights to end a contract whenever i choose, but this also means the part that contracted me for the job is refunded double their downpayment. usually, this means that the ammount refunded to the party is the entire sum for the job. i very rarely end a contract before completion, and i always have a very good reason for doing so. most of the few times i DO end a contract involve the target being innocent of the reasons or crimes that the party felt warranted this person's/these people's death/deaths.

there are a few of us out there that live by codes of honor, despite what most think of us.

 

[bored1]

dead people can't rape again. or kill again. or torture again. it's as simple as that.

I agree 100%

 

[Frimost]

And dead people can't breed either, thereby bringing up a future generation of scum-bags whether through genetics or their own twisted parenting where these abused kids in turn become the abusers and rape and kill future innocent generations to come. Don’t you want your children or children's children to live in a better world then we do and be just a little bit safer from this kind of shit then we are today?


BTW-no, his father tried to convince the council not to punish her but was over-ruled by them.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

I missed the first thread, but this story turned my stomach.

Did anyone even notice that one of the council members was her uncle? It couldn't get much worse unless her dad was ordered to join in, too. (And yes, I see that it doesn't say if he was one of the four gang bangers. But- was he?)

I believe it was the uncle of the girl who the victim's brother was seen 'walking alone together' with.

 

[Frimost]

for those of you who came late

Here was the original thread

 

[p_p_man]

CEDAW -

"The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW)

adopted in 1979 by the UN General Assembly, is often described as an international bill of rights for women."

As individuals we can only voice our disgust at these practices. Or is it?

A far better course of action than just posting to Lit would be to e-mail your Congressmen/Senators asking them why the US is not co-operating with CEDAW.

Although a signatory since 1980 America has never ratified the agreement nor set up a national machinery to help implement it or submitted progress reports.

"Neither traditional, religious or cultural practice nor incompatible domestic laws and policies can justify violations of the Convention."

If the USA as a country has very little regard about trying to halt discrimination against women then her citizens can have no real klout when complaining about the gang rape case. It just becomes another "look at the crazy savages, and they expect us to think they're civilised" rant.

If you really want to have a say in these cases, get on your computer, give Lit a miss for an hour and e-mail your representative.

There's plenty of information about CEDAW on the net.

ppman

 

[bored1]

Re: CEDAW -

"The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW)

adopted in 1979 by the UN General Assembly, is often described as an international bill of rights for women."

As individuals we can only voice our disgust at these practices. Or is it?

A far better course of action than just posting to Lit would be to e-mail your Congressmen/Senators asking them why the US is not co-operating with CEDAW.

Although a signatory since 1980 America has never ratified the agreement nor set up a national machinery to help implement it or submitted progress reports.

"Neither traditional, religious or cultural practice nor incompatible domestic laws and policies can justify violations of the Convention."

If the USA as a country has very little regard about trying to halt discrimination against women then her citizens can have no real klout when complaining about the gang rape case. It just becomes another "look at the crazy savages, and they expect us to think they're civilised" rant.

If you really want to have a say in these cases, get on your computer, give Lit a miss for an hour and e-mail your representative.

There's plenty of information about CEDAW on the net.

ppman

Your right p_pman we have no regard for women Im sure as soon as the US ratified the agreement all the clowns in these 3rd world hell holes will change their behavior. We can just sit down with them and explain how they now have to behave. And when they disagree we can pull out the New and Improved Agreement and show it to them. And all will be well with the world. Its so easy, Dont ya think

 

[Frimost]

Unlike you p_p-Man, I don't trust a giant, bloated, bureaucratic, wasteful, inefficient, socialist organization with aspirations for World domination and very little actual representation from regular citizens in it.

I we didn't ratify it then most likely there is some funny business going on in the fine print somewhere on the bill. If its that straightforward then there is something suspicious about it as I can't imagine us refusing to sign it if its intentions really are so valid and commendable.

Fuck the UN, just yesterday they actually had the gaul to demand that West African countries outlaw all private ownership of firearms in their countries. These are sovereign states, where do they get off dictating domestic policy to a free nation's citizens?