Need to talk to Others about Sexless Marriage

[AnotherDude99]

I want to get this right

And I think you are being incredibly judgemental of what Policywank said. The
..........................
for being an overbearing sexist no matter how legitimate the issue he is trying to address.

So all that is really your own opinion, or are you just looking for some capital pussy?
I'm curious.

 

[SlutAddicted]

I am signing off this thread, and just want to wish each of you all the best in your individual situations. Do what you need to in order to cope and be true to yourself, that's the best advice I can give.

Anyone who would like to talk to me about it, for mutual support, feel free to drop me a PM

Wow. All very pleasant. But at the substantive level it sounds like both you and your husband are committed to avoiding anything you don't want to hear.

 

[SlutAddicted]

So all that is really your own opinion, or are you just looking for some capital pussy?
I'm curious.

LOL. Well if it would work I am not above trying. But it won't. No that is my opinion. I mean no offence. To often we confuse disagreement with being mean. You can't realistically be helpful if you can't bring yourself to disagree - no matter how nice and vulnerable another person is they can still be wrong. And when there is another party involved pretending otherwise is not harmless. I have had more than one friend or relative have their marital troubles made worse by friends who listen to one side of the story and provide unconditional agreement without knowing the other side. Supporting your friends unconditionally isn't the same thing as always agreeing with them.

Nothing PW said suggested FJ is wrong or at fault in her marital challenges. All she did was offer a view on her approach to the matter. You reasonably say you are devoted to resolving the issue (even if the husband is 100% at fault) then pick up your toys and go home when others offer a view on how you are going about it. Read those posts - nothing offensive was said or even implied. Her only offence was intelligently expressing a different point of view.

If however PW should feel inclined to give me some capital pussy I'd love to get together if I can approval from my wife.

 

[Ins_spacetime87]

LOL. Well if it would work I am not above trying. But it won't. No that is my opinion. I mean no offence. To often we confuse disagreement with being mean. You can't realistically be helpful if you can't bring yourself to disagree - no matter how nice and vulnerable another person is they can still be wrong. And when there is another party involved pretending otherwise is not harmless. I have had more than one friend or relative have their marital troubles made worse by friends who listen to one side of the story and provide unconditional agreement without knowing the other side. Supporting your friends unconditionally isn't the same thing as always agreeing with them.

Nothing PW said suggested FJ is wrong or at fault in her marital challenges. All she did was offer a view on her approach to the matter. You reasonably say you are devoted to resolving the issue (even if the husband is 100% at fault) then pick up your toys and go home when others offer a view on how you are going about it. Read those posts - nothing offensive was said or even implied. Her only offence was intelligently expressing a different point of view.

If however PW should feel inclined to give me some capital pussy I'd love to get together if I can approval from my wife.

Here is a chear from me to you for being reasoable and you deserve it.

 

[FelicityJohns]

I'd like the chance to assure those involved that I'm not being petulant... I've not stormed off in a huff. My choice to walk away is just that, to not engage in what feels like pointless conversation that doesn't aid in my situation at this time. Does this mean I don't listen and consider? Of course not. I'm a student of life. Always listening.

I apologize if I come across as sensitive... I sure as hell am. It's an open wound that has been open for so long, I don't remember life before it. It's filled with sadness, depression, fear, anxiety...

My support system is mostly male, FWIW. And they support, they don't blindly agree with me. It is what makes them friends. I don't like that tales out of school picture that I'm spreading gossip behind his back... never. I wouldn't disrespect him in any way. But I've needed support too. When he won't give it, what am I supposed to do?

In my heart, I know I've done my best. I also know I've not always done right. Most days I doubt I've ever done right. I try to make up my own shortcomings by staying with him and being his friend, and loving him whether his dick works or not. He's a good man. And he knows clearly my opinion of him. 14 years, and I tell him every day.

 

[scorpio1121]

I am going to tell you the long story which has been a very difficult road for me but I overcame the challenges by being honest and listening.
I have had a struggle with ED for a while but did not know what it was. I had been married before and had married early enough that I still could get and keep a decent erection. But with not to many years of being together a problem started to arise, or not arise. I would assure her it was not her and i could not explain it. We went to a urologist and he promptly gave me a prescription for Viagra. He said that i just needed to build some confidence back. Nothing else. So I went home and promptly took one of the little blue pills. I was amazed at the reaction the pill gave me. I stood in the middle of the living groom with a glorious hard on and just laughed hysterically. After a little bit the pill lost its effectiveness. We tried other pills and ideas but in the end it was hit or miss. It took its toll on me emotionally and saddened me deeply. I was afraid to have sex with her unless I was very needy and was sure I could sustain an erection long enough to satisfy both of us. Eventually our marriage ended but because she was a serial cheater, had been for years and I just didnt pay attention or thought what I was seeing was not real. That is a whole different long story that I was able to out live.

I can out of the divorce a very damaged man but was slowly able to put the pieces back together again. On thing I took from the experience was that I did not need to settle for what ever happened my way. And I didnt. I dated for about 2-3 years when I finally met my fiance. It clicked and we found something wonderful. But what was even more amazing was her willingness to help me. We talked about my on again off again problems with erections. It would get in the way at times but for the most part we had fantastic sex. She had been paying attention to things I never did and slowly two things became very obvious. If I drank alcohol I would have a problem. This is with the exception to a very amazing bourbon fueled romp that ended with the bed completely destroyed and both of us clapping for each other. The second thing was that if i had any sweets or excessive sugar there was no way I would be able to join her. Wine became the biggest culprit and was quickly removed from the list of approved beverages. After we had tried this theory and proven its accuracy our sex life went back to being fantastic. Mind you and Im being honest. We have never had bad sex and we each rewrite our top 5 sexual encounters about every 6 months. It has always been good, just not as spontaneous or frequent.

I have a step daughter that has ADHD and is on medication for it. It works like a miricle and I took a page from that and talked to my doctor about the same thing. Seems alot of people have ADD/ADHD or other things that can be addressed. SO the doctor started me on Welbutron and Adderall. Did some very impressive things to my overall mental well being and ability to concentrate. They know if i miss my dose and tell me to go and get back on the program. I guess I am a bit of a pecker left to my own devices. One very difficult side effect of the meds was that I could not keep a hard on and I had very little sex drive. I was just not interested. So I buried it and tried to avoid it again. At the same time we were starting a business together and taking most of our time and all of our energy. So the sex was reduced to once a week and that seemed to work well because what was every other day now was once a week and I was horney by then. Eventually she noticed my struggles, a few "soft" moments here and there. We talked about it and decided to talk to my doctor about it. He promptly put me on Viagra, here we go again. I agree with a few comments about loosing the spontaneity and it does work on your self image. We went looking for other alternatives and spoke to the doctor. He ran a blood test and wouldnt you know my testosterone levels were low. Around 300 in a range of 300 to 1500. He started me on a testosterone treatment regimen using a product called Testim. I took a little while but now I dont need the assistance of Viagra and can feel confident in having sex when ever we want. The testosterone gave me back my libido, I wanted to have sex again and regulary. It also gave me back my erection and finally gave me back confidence. That was the biggest improvement for me. I feel like a man again.

With all that blathering. A man not being able to achieve and or maintain an erection is a very psychologically difficult thing. It is what makes a man a man essentially. We feel like a failure as a man and it spirals out from there. No matter how many times you tell us that it is ok, It is not ok. I was open minded enough and put away my ego to find and except the causes of my "failures" my wife is understanding and loving enough to work with me and find a solution together. But that was the key to all of this. I was willing to look for the solutions. I can see if another man was not able to put ego aside or was deep in depression over this issue that he could not come out easier. Look at mental health, diet and consult a doctor to look for how to get your sex life back. Dont take the easy way out by taking a pill and ask lots of questions. Hormones control both men and womens lives in much deeper ways that just " she's a grump because it's that time again". Taking the testosterone replacement is giving my sex life back to us but that my not be the answer for someone else.

M

 

[policywank]

I'd like the chance to assure those involved that I'm not being petulant... I've not stormed off in a huff. My choice to walk away is just that, to not engage in what feels like pointless conversation that doesn't aid in my situation at this time. Does this mean I don't listen and consider? Of course not. I'm a student of life. Always listening.

I apologize if I come across as sensitive... I sure as hell am. It's an open wound that has been open for so long, I don't remember life before it. It's filled with sadness, depression, fear, anxiety...

My support system is mostly male, FWIW. And they support, they don't blindly agree with me. It is what makes them friends. I don't like that tales out of school picture that I'm spreading gossip behind his back... never. I wouldn't disrespect him in any way. But I've needed support too. When he won't give it, what am I supposed to do?

In my heart, I know I've done my best. I also know I've not always done right. Most days I doubt I've ever done right. I try to make up my own shortcomings by staying with him and being his friend, and loving him whether his dick works or not. He's a good man. And he knows clearly my opinion of him. 14 years, and I tell him every day.

It is ok to be sensitive. This is sensitive territory. I certainly didn't intend to pass judgment and tried to choose my words carefully to avoid any such perception but I guess we are all imperfect. I simply perceived in some of your comments the possibility that some of your well intended efforts might not be having the desired effect and that some perspective from my own experience as to why that might be the case would be useful. I'm sorry you found those observations pointless.

 

[policywank]

LOL. Well if it would work I am not above trying. But it won't. No that is my opinion. I mean no offence. To often we confuse disagreement with being mean. You can't realistically be helpful if you can't bring yourself to disagree - no matter how nice and vulnerable another person is they can still be wrong. And when there is another party involved pretending otherwise is not harmless. I have had more than one friend or relative have their marital troubles made worse by friends who listen to one side of the story and provide unconditional agreement without knowing the other side. Supporting your friends unconditionally isn't the same thing as always agreeing with them.

Nothing PW said suggested FJ is wrong or at fault in her marital challenges. All she did was offer a view on her approach to the matter. You reasonably say you are devoted to resolving the issue (even if the husband is 100% at fault) then pick up your toys and go home when others offer a view on how you are going about it. Read those posts - nothing offensive was said or even implied. Her only offence was intelligently expressing a different point of view.

If however PW should feel inclined to give me some capital pussy I'd love to get together if I can approval from my wife.

LOL. Sorry dude. Don't bother troubling your wife with that request because it's not going to happen.

 

[Titts4Tatts]

I am going to tell you the long story which has been a very difficult road for me but I overcame the challenges by being honest and listening.
I have had a struggle with ED for a while but did not know what it was. I had been married before and had married early enough that I still could get and keep a decent erection. But with not to many years of being together a problem started to arise, or not arise. I would assure her it was not her and i could not explain it. We went to a urologist and he promptly gave me a prescription for Viagra. He said that i just needed to build some confidence back. Nothing else. So I went home and promptly took one of the little blue pills. I was amazed at the reaction the pill gave me. I stood in the middle of the living groom with a glorious hard on and just laughed hysterically. After a little bit the pill lost its effectiveness. We tried other pills and ideas but in the end it was hit or miss. It took its toll on me emotionally and saddened me deeply. I was afraid to have sex with her unless I was very needy and was sure I could sustain an erection long enough to satisfy both of us. Eventually our marriage ended but because she was a serial cheater, had been for years and I just didnt pay attention or thought what I was seeing was not real. That is a whole different long story that I was able to out live.

I can out of the divorce a very damaged man but was slowly able to put the pieces back together again. On thing I took from the experience was that I did not need to settle for what ever happened my way. And I didnt. I dated for about 2-3 years when I finally met my fiance. It clicked and we found something wonderful. But what was even more amazing was her willingness to help me. We talked about my on again off again problems with erections. It would get in the way at times but for the most part we had fantastic sex. She had been paying attention to things I never did and slowly two things became very obvious. If I drank alcohol I would have a problem. This is with the exception to a very amazing bourbon fueled romp that ended with the bed completely destroyed and both of us clapping for each other. The second thing was that if i had any sweets or excessive sugar there was no way I would be able to join her. Wine became the biggest culprit and was quickly removed from the list of approved beverages. After we had tried this theory and proven its accuracy our sex life went back to being fantastic. Mind you and Im being honest. We have never had bad sex and we each rewrite our top 5 sexual encounters about every 6 months. It has always been good, just not as spontaneous or frequent.

I have a step daughter that has ADHD and is on medication for it. It works like a miricle and I took a page from that and talked to my doctor about the same thing. Seems alot of people have ADD/ADHD or other things that can be addressed. SO the doctor started me on Welbutron and Adderall. Did some very impressive things to my overall mental well being and ability to concentrate. They know if i miss my dose and tell me to go and get back on the program. I guess I am a bit of a pecker left to my own devices. One very difficult side effect of the meds was that I could not keep a hard on and I had very little sex drive. I was just not interested. So I buried it and tried to avoid it again. At the same time we were starting a business together and taking most of our time and all of our energy. So the sex was reduced to once a week and that seemed to work well because what was every other day now was once a week and I was horney by then. Eventually she noticed my struggles, a few "soft" moments here and there. We talked about it and decided to talk to my doctor about it. He promptly put me on Viagra, here we go again. I agree with a few comments about loosing the spontaneity and it does work on your self image. We went looking for other alternatives and spoke to the doctor. He ran a blood test and wouldnt you know my testosterone levels were low. Around 300 in a range of 300 to 1500. He started me on a testosterone treatment regimen using a product called Testim. I took a little while but now I dont need the assistance of Viagra and can feel confident in having sex when ever we want. The testosterone gave me back my libido, I wanted to have sex again and regulary. It also gave me back my erection and finally gave me back confidence. That was the biggest improvement for me. I feel like a man again.

With all that blathering. A man not being able to achieve and or maintain an erection is a very psychologically difficult thing. It is what makes a man a man essentially. We feel like a failure as a man and it spirals out from there. No matter how many times you tell us that it is ok, It is not ok. I was open minded enough and put away my ego to find and except the causes of my "failures" my wife is understanding and loving enough to work with me and find a solution together. But that was the key to all of this. I was willing to look for the solutions. I can see if another man was not able to put ego aside or was deep in depression over this issue that he could not come out easier. Look at mental health, diet and consult a doctor to look for how to get your sex life back. Dont take the easy way out by taking a pill and ask lots of questions. Hormones control both men and womens lives in much deeper ways that just " she's a grump because it's that time again". Taking the testosterone replacement is giving my sex life back to us but that my not be the answer for someone else.

M

THAT is one of the most honest, upfront and informative replies. Thank you for the willingness to share. I'm glad things are on the right path . kudos to you for not giving up.

 

[gregy70]

LOL. Sorry dude. Don't bother troubling your wife with that request because it's not going to happen.

I let out a little ouch for SlutAddicted but I know he will still adore you the same Policywank.
Brutal honestly can be quite arousing. You obviously know him well.

 

[Slightlybentrod]

My two cents.

I just found this thread yesterday and haven't read through a lot of the posts.
I can both sympathize and empathize with F J because I am in a similar situation but with very different causal circumstances. Maybe this thread should be split into two separate threads because from what I've read on it there seem to be two opposing reasons people are posting. The first group is looking for support from others in similar situations not necessarily answers from others to their situation. The second group is looking for justification in terminating their situation. No one can truly give answers to any one situation because ultimately the only person responsible for jugging the right path to take for themselves is the one dealing with their own situation. I would not openly share my own situation here as I would not welcome some of the more crass remarks from the group looking for justification of their own choices. I do wish everyone happiness in the choices they make.

 

[SlutAddicted]

I'd like the chance to assure those involved that I'm not being petulant... I've not stormed off in a huff. My choice to walk away is just that, to not engage in what feels like pointless conversation that doesn't aid in my situation at this time. Does this mean I don't listen and consider? Of course not. I'm a student of life. Always listening.

I apologize if I come across as sensitive... I sure as hell am. It's an open wound that has been open for so long, I don't remember life before it. It's filled with sadness, depression, fear, anxiety...

My support system is mostly male, FWIW. And they support, they don't blindly agree with me. It is what makes them friends. I don't like that tales out of school picture that I'm spreading gossip behind his back... never. I wouldn't disrespect him in any way. But I've needed support too. When he won't give it, what am I supposed to do?

In my heart, I know I've done my best. I also know I've not always done right. Most days I doubt I've ever done right. I try to make up my own shortcomings by staying with him and being his friend, and loving him whether his dick works or not. He's a good man. And he knows clearly my opinion of him. 14 years, and I tell him every day.

So let me get this straight you are telling other guys that your husband can't get it up and they are telling you to stop being so patient and generous with him. Wow. I don't know how to describe how offensive that is. I could write one page each on the fundamental violation trust and the idiocy of assuming the other guys have no ulterior motives. But I won't be viewed as objective.

Scorpio offered a very well spoken and open hearted description of his own experience and is obviously less crass than I, so let's ask him. In the middle of your experiences Scorpio how would you feel if you found that your wife had been discussing your ED with other men, put even nominal weight to their opinion that she was being too generous with you then came up with a series of unsolicited ways to "fix" you.

How would that make you feel and just how helpful would that have been to your problem? If you had been less than receptive to her earnest appeals to address the situation which way would this push you?

 

[scorpio1121]

So let me get this straight you are telling other guys that your husband can't get it up and they are telling you to stop being so patient and generous with him. Wow. I don't know how to describe how offensive that is. I could write one page each on the fundamental violation trust and the idiocy of assuming the other guys have no ulterior motives. But I won't be viewed as objective.

Scorpio offered a very well spoken and open hearted description of his own experience and is obviously less crass than I, so let's ask him. In the middle of your experiences Scorpio how would you feel if you found that your wife had been discussing your ED with other men, put even nominal weight to their opinion that she was being too generous with you then came up with a series of unsolicited ways to "fix" you.

How would that make you feel and just how helpful would that have been to your problem? If you had been less than receptive to her earnest appeals to address the situation which way would this push you?

I had written a long response to your question and hit the back button and "poof" it was gone. So, you get the rearranged and boiled down version. But, I cant say from a point of being less receptive. I was luck enough to be receptive and not stick my head in the sand.

The first thing I will say is that I would welcome my wife looking for answers to help... US. I am not the only victim she is equally involved. The fact that she is willing to keep going and find a way out is enough to bring me to tears and thank her, and the others that helped us. To be so proud that you can not take the hand of others and listen to their advise, something that can save a marriage and bring happiness back to not only you but your spouse is unfortunate.

If you dont find a solution you are faced with only three choices. Celibacy, Cheating or a New Partner. None of us has the right to judge or criticize someone for making a decision like this. I know what mine would be and I would have to live with it for the rest of my life. No one has the right to judge me if I made a good or bad call because none of you know what happens day after day, year after year in the home. It could be peaceful and never a cross word or threat of violence or it could be WWIII. But one thing is for sure, the hurt feelings, anger and depression only festers. So, Yes i would take the help of strangers because i wanted my sexlife and my wife back. I would not be mad because she reached out for help that we needed.

Sex is an overbearingly powerful force. Think of this. If tomorrow morning you woke up and were told you could never have sex again, ever. What would you do?............For a great many I can probably recite the thought. "Well fuck, might as well just kill myself!" What does that say? You would rather die than go with out sex, knowing that there is so much more to life and that this is more important.

Here is the rub for FJ. Her husband is not as willing as I was to get the help I needed. This does not make him a bad person. maybe short sided for not being able to face a fear. But how many of you would rather eat a dog turd than stick your hand in a tank of spiders.... And that is an easy one compared to admitting that your manhood is on the fritz, and your a man. or that your hormones are out of wack, only women have hormones right... FJ is in here telling her story and secretly hoping someone tells her that it is simple and just hit him in the face with a water balloon full of cat piss and he is cured. Give her some credit. I have spoken with her and told her that if the shoe were on the other foot in my relationship and my wife was not willing to get the help needed I would find another partner, but never cheat on her. But i told her this as what I would do for myself. I also told her I know of a few that put it all on the line and said that if their spouse did not seek help that the marriage was coming to an end. For now she is seeking voices and to help and not cruising a bar for a one nighter. She should be applauded for just looking for a affectionate written word in stead of a faceless Joe. Hats off FJ, your a better woman than I....

 

[FelicityJohns]

.....

 

[SlutAddicted]

I believe I would also approach it with an open mind, but who knows. Thankfully it hasn't been an issue and if it were I have an understanding wife and a good support system.

However, I guess I am just not a believer in "what he doesn't know won't hurt him". If I was having such a problem and ever found out that my wife was discussing it with other men behind my back, I would be devastated. The fact that her intentions are positive and the other men can be trusted to be balanced and discrete helps (although not sure you can ever be sure) but it still would not be an adequate excuse for sharing my secrets without my permission. The proposition that nobody will ever find out doesn't really change that - its not your risk to take on his behalf and I would see falling back on that excuse as being lacking respectful to his privacy and putting yourself first.

For me if I am of the view that it is nobody else's business (not a single person) and so that would have been violated. So the question isn't whether you find it justifiable but whether he would. Scorpio doesn't feel that need for privacy in the circumstances. I would. In either case that is our prerogative and nobody's else's. That perspective should be respected regardless of whether you agree. Based upon what FJ has said about her husband's unwillingness to listen I would hazard a guess (and yes it s only a guess and I am not entitled to judge) that he would not want this shared with other people let alone other men. And that is the test.

If you know that he would find it devastating (and I am not saying that you do), the premise that its ok because he'll never find out doesn't cut it in my view.

 

[afriendg]

Thank you for reviving this thread, and for all the ( mostly) intelligent and helpful responses...I feel your pain and frustration, each and every one of you, and I understand the sorrow..it's different for everyone, but I can bet most of you have gone through periods of anger as well, your relationship has gone off the rails in an important way, and there's no easy solution. I don't think my personal situation is likely to change any time soon, for lots of reasons, so if I choose to stick it out, which I do, then I have to work out a solution I can live with. Haven't quite gotten there yet, but I'll keep reading and learning. Better days may be ahead, who knows!

 

[policywank]

Never do anything that would hurt your spouse if they knew you were doing it. That is my rule. I'm not saying I haven't ever violated it but when I have I don't pretend its ok because he won't find out. Nor do I substitute my judgment for his in matters that concern him. And the quality of my intentions has nothing to do with it.

But as FJ said, this is Rik's thread.

I do sincerely hope he finds some way to break the impasse. As with my earlier comments I believe it is not acceptable to change the "rules" once in the marriage. I don't know if anyone does it intentionally but it is something that seems to happen a lot. And sex seems to be this blindspot where we can somehow justify that which would not be acceptable in other areas of the marriage.

I am not sure why but I think it is because of the sensitive dynamics it touches - for example religious morals and feminism. Obviously those are two completely separate topics and I am not suggesting they are always at play in any given situation. But both suggest to us that there is something "wrong" about sex outside of certain prescribed scenarios including the need for both partners to be enthusiastic. The net result is that if either partner is dis-engaged we often deem that as a sufficient excuse to not have sex.

It is harder for me to address the male perspective, but I have known several women who hide behind feminism - "I don't want to have sex and it isn't acceptable for him to force it on me so end of discussion". They conflate the fact that it isn't acceptable for him to force it on them (true) with the premise that she doesn't have to try if she doesn't feel like it (false). This in turn often seems to be the result of letting too many people into the discussion by proxy. I think a healthy marital dialogue has to start with completely discounting the views of others and that includes your mom or best friend or the pope. It needs to start with just the two.

How does that start if one refuses to participate? That of course is the challenge. Sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes we are faced with only the option to suffer in silence or move on. But I think that before that time comes we owe it to ourselves to give it one last blunt and explicit try. Don't try to convince or cajole or beat around the bush. Say it straight out. "I want sex, it is part of marriage and I categorically reject your ongoing avoidance or the premise that your lack of interest translates into my celibacy. I refuse to be brushed aside."

Maybe it won't work. But if that doesn't get your partner's attention they are basically reserving the right to ignore one of your basic needs for the rest of your life. And for me at that point it becomes as much an issue of neglect as it is an issue of sex. That is where the "grin and bare it because there are other great things in the marriage" logic falls apart for me. If there is a real impediment or there is sex but it isn't that great I can absolutely see that attitude that says look at the bigger picture. But if your partner refuses to hear your concerns that fact alone is part of the bigger picture. And if raising it in clear and direct manner is likely to lead to a blow-up that will damage the marriage that is also part of the bigger picture. To each his own but I cannot fathom being unable to speak my mind with my life partner - diplomatic, gentle, well timed, yes to all, but speak my mind nonetheless.

 

[scorpio1121]

I believe I would also approach it with an open mind, but who knows. Thankfully it hasn't been an issue and if it were I have an understanding wife and a good support system.

However, I guess I am just not a believer in "what he doesn't know won't hurt him". If I was having such a problem and ever found out that my wife was discussing it with other men behind my back, I would be devastated. The fact that her intentions are positive and the other men can be trusted to be balanced and discrete helps (although not sure you can ever be sure) but it still would not be an adequate excuse for sharing my secrets without my permission. The proposition that nobody will ever find out doesn't really change that - its not your risk to take on his behalf and I would see falling back on that excuse as being lacking respectful to his privacy and putting yourself first.

For me if I am of the view that it is nobody else's business (not a single person) and so that would have been violated. So the question isn't whether you find it justifiable but whether he would. Scorpio doesn't feel that need for privacy in the circumstances. I would. In either case that is our prerogative and nobody's else's. That perspective should be respected regardless of whether you agree. Based upon what FJ has said about her husband's unwillingness to listen I would hazard a guess (and yes it s only a guess and I am not entitled to judge) that he would not want this shared with other people let alone other men. And that is the test.

If you know that he would find it devastating (and I am not saying that you do), the premise that its ok because he'll never find out doesn't cut it in my view.

SA, I agree with you on many fronts. But I think you have tangled two thoughts. Your willing to seek help if needed so there would be no need for counsel of others. However, lets say your wife refused to seek help for , whatever it could be, and I mean flatly refused. Do you think you would never talk to someone about advise? Give what you have written you would probably seek advise in your community which is more susceptible to leaks than an fictitious user name on a little know web site on a world stage.

Likewise, If i refused to seek treatment I would not count out my wife buying up front page space on The New York Times with the headline reading "Your Pecker Fell Off" to make me do something. My wife would not put her head in the sand because I might be embarrassed. I know FJ is not doing anything near this but not every path is comfortable and easy.

I completely understand and respect your desire and expectation to privacy in your personal life. In todays tech age with Facebook and every other socially voyeuristic tool out there people are into each others business way more than what was and need to be. Used to be that only close family knew about so and so's 15 year old daughter getting knocked up. Now it can be the whole world if your not careful. So, yes I get your point.

 

[SlutAddicted]

SA, I agree with you on many fronts. But I think you have tangled two thoughts. Your willing to seek help if needed so there would be no need for counsel of others. However, lets say your wife refused to seek help for , whatever it could be, and I mean flatly refused. Do you think you would never talk to someone about advise? Give what you have written you would probably seek advise in your community which is more susceptible to leaks than an fictitious user name on a little know web site on a world stage.

Likewise, If i refused to seek treatment I would not count out my wife buying up front page space on The New York Times with the headline reading "Your Pecker Fell Off" to make me do something. My wife would not put her head in the sand because I might be embarrassed. I know FJ is not doing anything near this but not every path is comfortable and easy.

I completely understand and respect your desire and expectation to privacy in your personal life. In todays tech age with Facebook and every other socially voyeuristic tool out there people are into each others business way more than what was and need to be. Used to be that only close family knew about so and so's 15 year old daughter getting knocked up. Now it can be the whole world if your not careful. So, yes I get your point.

I take your point. However, I think that what you are seeing as tangled thoughts is actually for me quite clear and in fact the point where the rubber hits the road so to speak. Perhaps we just have different views. There is no doubt that the fact that the other party isn't prepared to engage makes it more difficult but that does not justify violating their trust in my view. My secrets are mine and mine alone and I explicitly do not accept the premise that anyone has the right to share those secrets with anyone else without my consent. The quality of their intent is completely beside the point because it is not their decision to make. Nor is it their prerogative to distinguish between sharing with a few people or the whole world - it is not their call it is mine and my view is that sharing my most sensitive secret with even one person would be a violation of my trust.

To your point about your wife's right to take out a front page ad to make the point if you aren't being responsive......I don't agree and I am sure you know that most men (including FJ's husband) probably wouldn't agree either. But let's assume for a moment that I did. I would still be of the view that before she goes there she needs to have exhausted all possible options. More on that in a moment.

In this case obviously there are two parties to the situation. But let's be realistic. In the realm of who will be embarrassed or humiliated he is the one with something to lose and the secret is his. My wife has secrets, but being married to her doesn't make them half mine and therefore entitle me to let them out even if they do affect me.

Does not being able to talk to other people restrict her coping mechanisms? Yes. Is he making it worse by not being willing to talk? Yes. Is she justified in calling him out for his intransigence and insisting on a dialogue? Yes (but has she?). Does his refusal justify violating his trust by sharing his deepest most sensitive secrets with other people? Nope. For me their is no tangle there. Her legitimate challenges do not entitle her to supersede his right to have complete and absolute control over his person including his secrets.

FJ said she went to see a therapist on her own. If handled correctly I can see that as fair game. It won't solve the problem but might provide her with an outlet. Tell him that if he won't talk to her she needs someone to share with and will do it with a therapist......a professional who can be counted on to give balanced advice and has a professional obligation to keep the conversation confidential. I still think she owes it to him to tell him, but she is on solid ground to say that this is a reasonable outlet and one with no risk to him. She is affected by this too and it is unreasonable for him to refuse to talk to her and refuse to let her see a therapist.

But I want to (or already have) talk to other men (multiple) who may or may not know the husband? Who, well intentioned though they may be, are not qualified and may or may not offer good advice? Who based upon her sole discretion can be trusted to share a secret that is not hers to share? No way. Absolutely not.

Now just as you asked me to put myself in the position of having to deal with an uncooperative partner, I ask that you do the same. Imagine you (or another man) in a mindset of avoidance unwilling to discuss or face the issue. Is it likely that the wife's suggestions of how to fix the problem - a problem that you are actively avoiding - would be well received? I know they should be if he was being reasonable, but he is not, so that is not what I am asking? I am asking about whether in the actual situation it is likely that those suggestions would be well received. In my view the answer is no. Is it his fault? Absolutely. But the fact remains that she is engaging in behaviour that is more than likely exacerbating the situation and that reality is not mitigated by the fact that the behaviour is well intentioned or that he is the biggest part of the problem.

It is entirely unfair for me to judge this situation. But what I am reading is that her husband won't listen. His mind is closed and he is avoiding the problem. She is nonetheless lobing in suggestions on how to fix himself and actively discussing his problem with other men. It is well intentioned and with a sincere desire to improve the relationship. But if this is really about him and helping him one must recognize the possibility (in my view likelihood) that these genuine efforts are not working because they are not suitable to the circumstance. It might be for you or I - but not for this man in this circumstance.

The logical next step is re-assess the situation and make sure she is seeing it for what it is. My very thinly informed view is that the efforts she has been making are inconsistent with the problem she is facing. When someone is actively avoiding a topic or problem it doesn't help to drop hints or be gentle and humorous. At best those efforts will be ignored and at worst they will come across as passive aggressive, insulting and a reaffirmation of his inadequacy. I am not saying that is what she means or that it is her fault - I am saying that objectively observed that is the likely reception.

When I have observed others in this mode or been this way myself there is only one effective method. Be straight-forward, blunt and factual. State your issue and make it clear that your feelings abut the situation are not up for debate. Do NOT cite anyone else's opinion, make comparisons to others, drag out old grievances or start throwing around anecdotal examples. Do NOT be overly fawning or averse to hurting his feelings. They are likely going to get hurt and there is no other way. Ask if he is willing to work to address the issue. If presented with the "I am trying but I just can't get anywhere" line call him out on it right away - "no you aren't trying, if your were you would have a bottle of viagra in the cabinet right now." Make it about wanting him not blaming him but don't beat around the bush.

Maybe that has all been done and it didn't work. I don't know. But what she describes she is doing now isn't working either - and if I put myself in his shoes with his mindset I would not expect it to work. What I think I am hearing is that she has a hard time taking the aggressive in your face approach. I understand and respect that. But avoiding it because it is uncomfortable is pretty much the same thing as what he is doing. And repeating the same steps that don't work is engaging in unproductive behaviour just like he is doing.

Trying your best and exhausting all available options, by definition, requires seeing the situation for what it is an being willing to leave your comfort zone. So back to your wife's front page ad in the New York Times......is it not reasonable to expect that before she takes out that ad she has tried everything possible including the things that make her uncomfortable? And that she does so multiple times and in multiple ways? How would you feel if you were shocked to see that ad on your doorstep and her excuse was that she has been dropping hints and making suggestions but never actually sat you down looked you straight in the eye, explained the issue clearly and succinctly and insisted that you address it?

 

[SlutAddicted]

For greater clarity my comments, though perhaps unduly harsh, have nothing to with not empathizing. I feel FJs pain and sincerely hope the situation can be resolved. But I had the impression that we were sharing views on how to address these types of situations.

I saw her comments on what she was doing to address the problem, tried my best to put myself in her husband's shoes and immediately though "that won't work." I wasn't thinking anything negative about her......just that her methods did not seem likely to work in the circumstances.

Read PWs post. The hyper-sensitivity we attach to the sexual discussion is part of the problem.

 

[scorpio1121]

That was said better than I ever could have. Thank you. I have reread the post a few times as I have written this and continue to pull things out of it that I very much like and find value in.

In my case my wife would have face to face addressed it and probably resorted to kidnapping me and delivering me to the therapist/doctor before doing something as absurd as a Times ad. It to me was a given that she would not jump from subtle hints to full tilt in one motion, I should have made that more clear.

To play into your hand, and your correct, I would be pissed. I think i was trying to demonstrate that she would go to any lengths to turn it around. It would be a major violation of my trust and privacy and jeopardize the relationship for sure. But at that point if I was unwilling to do this the marriage was on the track to failure anyway. Pushing past the "Now you have gone and done it" point is the point. Your correct in saying that anyone in this situation, if they value the relationship that deeply,has to risk everything.

But back to the reason of this thread that we have hy-jacked. Someone wanted to vocalize something that bothered them and was looking for comfort and support. SA you may not agree with airing your laundry but look back over the posts and see the volume of usable advise that has been laid out for anyone to pick up and use. I guess it has a double edge to it.

 

[scorpio1121]

I have one last and I think very important point to make.

Drawing a line in the sand and stating that it is something or else does not need to be a fight. It can be handled rationally and calmly and get results far better than a knock down drag out in the middle of the living room. Not to say that a little screaming wont happen but dont make it a fight.

 

[FelicityJohns]

I hear you. What you're all saying.

I think it's got kind of blown up in the heat of the moment, so to speak. I'd like to clarify my own position on a couple of points.

One, I actually didn't post here looking for solutions. I posted originally to offer support to Rik. And in so doing to receive support in return, which I have, and it's lovely. I'm grateful. But this battle is lost for him and myself at this point. The only thing left for me to do is stay or go.

Two, I suffered alone, in utter silence, from the onset, 2004, to 2013. It took me that long to share what was happening with anyone outside (barring doctors and shrinks and pastors) and had gone without sex entirely for 3 years. My thought process was, if you're trying to get to the bottom of a problem about, say, chickens, you go to a poultry farmer. So I sought out a few trusted males (and no, NOT mutual friends, c'mon, give me some credit please. I understand the delicacy of the situation) and 'picked their brains.' I did not go spilling his secrets. Like here, I approached it as a hypothetical, bare bones minumum amount of information deal. His identity has remained protected throughout. Sure, they no doubt knew I was the one dealing, but aside from that...

An addendum to that is, having given him every opportunity and then some to work it out between us (hence being told on occasion that I'm too patient with the situation) what I then do to cope is no longer his concern. He had the opportunity to take care of me, physcially and emotionally and sexually, and he forfeited. A case of being driven to the end of one's rope.

And finally, yes. ALL other avenues had been traveled multiple times. That's nine years he and I attempted to deal with this, in our own way. Almost a decade. No, not in everyone's style, but the best we knew how to do it.

Bottom line, I am too weary to deal with it any longer, in my own home. We get along well on a practical day to day level. And for now, finding whatever company/sexual companionship I need in this way is good enough. I don't know what our future holds. But I know here we are, for better or worse.

I do hope, as Scorpio said, that others can benefit from the varied information here, even if only to use it as a cautionary tale.

Thank you

 

[earth7913]

I have lived that life too, for a very long time actually. It wasn't completely sexless, but once every other month was not enough for me either.

Its been almost 2 years since I walked out the door and I have to say it was one of the most difficult decisions I have ever made. Now I wonder what took me so long to make the decision. Life has changed so much, I am better, I am happier, I have found myself again.

There are so many things in this post that rang so true to me. Such as it turned out to be more then just sex, it was the intimacy that I craved. I just wanted to feel skin against my skin. Was I happy 50% of the time? Yes but that other 50% really sucked. I couldn't make her happy no matter how hard I tried, only she can do that.

I wish everyone that is going through this the best of luck. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[SlutAddicted]

Thank you for continuing to share FJ and Scorpio.

Felicity I do sincerely hope that one way or another your future holds a positive outcome. I know that you came here looking to offer support rather than seek comment. So I do appreciate your ongoing participation and contribution while being examined and second guessed.

Perhaps we have hijacked Rik's thread but I would like to think that this discussion is at least relevant to the topic. My own view is that as Scorpio said at some point perhaps you have to risk everything. Maybe a little friction provides some fire. And while sometimes support comes in the form of comfort sometimes it comes in less delicate forms. Please don't take the fact that mine is of the less delicate variety detract from the sincerity of its intent or that I lack appreciation for more comforting words.

I've faced my own challenges in life and relationships. And I have found that sometimes I need a hug and sometimes I need a subtle but firm correction and sometimes I need a kick in the ass. The people who care the most and have the most insight into what I need take the time to figure out and administer whichever is required - its not always about hugs. Obviously I am not qualified to determine which if any is relevant to those I chat with online. My point is that I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Sometimes a poke or a prod is just an obnoxious gesture and sometimes it comes from a place of caring and wanting to help get things moving. My intent is only the latter.

I really don't see this discussion as negative. Points were made. Perspectives were stated and clarified. Questions were asked and not always delicately. But I never felt insulted or offended and if I provided insult or offence I apologize as I did not mean to do so. Perhaps it is on point to see that this sort of challenge and push and pull is part of sorting through these things.

And yes absolutely drawing a line in the sand does not need to be a fight. It rarely works out if it is. The trick is to draw that line, do it carefully but also don't let fear of a fight keep your from doing it. I have always struggled to let go of relationships that aren't working. I know it happens but I still find it hard to internalize. I suppose my coping mechanism is to know I have tried everything including the things that make me uncomfortable.

Frankly I don't think we aired my dirty laundry. We picked through FJs underwear drawer though and I would like to thank her for being nice about it .

Speaking of my laundry and on a lighter note......if I was having an ED problem I think that having my wife kidnap me and tie me up (ok I added that part) might just do the trick. Now that is probably more than you wanted to know.