Need plumbing advise

[TheOldWidow]

I have an old house, brick veneer (half thick brick...I think). I have an outside faucet protruding from the brick. It no longer shuts off completely. The bibb is too short to put a pipe wrench on, so I have to use an adjustable one. I cannot tighten the faucet on the short extension any further; without putting the entire pipe in jeopardy.

It's over 2K to break into the wall and fix the faucet correctly. A quote from a plumber, and a brick mason.

What I want to do is put a pipe cap with Teflon on the threads and render the faucet unusable. A quick, cheap fix.

Is there any reason this won't work?

 

[uncle easy]

Hello

Sounds like a sure quick fix to me. But all that I know about plumbing is,,, hot is on the left and cold is on the right and shit will not run up hill. Hope it works for you .

 

[Weird Harold]

I have an old house, brick veneer (half thick brick...I think). I have an outside faucet protruding from the brick. It no longer shuts off completely. The bibb is too short to put a pipe wrench on, so I have to use an adjustable one. I cannot tighten the faucet on the short extension any further; without putting the entire pipe in jeopardy.

It's over 2K to break into the wall and fix the faucet correctly. A quote from a plumber, and a brick mason.

What I want to do is put a pipe cap with Teflon on the threads and render the faucet unusable. A quick, cheap fix.

Is there any reason this won't work?

No basement or crawl-space where you can get to the pipes further back?

ETA: Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to access the pipe through the inside wall than to bust up and replace the brickwork?

 

[stiffNDN]

Temporary fix

Your idea is a great temporary fix, but you'll want to have it fixed correctly before the temperature drops below freezing again, because the drip was a way the water can keep moving through the pipe and keep it from freezing and bursting the pipe inside the wall. I would try seeing if you can unscrew the actual handle from the hose bibb and see if the packing/washer can be replaced to stop that pesky drip.

 

[ReadyOne]

If you can live with the drip for a week or two, get a couple of "handy men" or DIY friends to look at the problem. I get the feeling the solution is much cheaper and simpler than you are being led to believe. Your plumber may not have explained everything...

I've got to believe that your "estimates" are either "sight-unseen" or "easy money off the uninformed". As per Harold, breaking the brick is almost never the only option. And fixing a couple of broken bricks isn't $2k.

The problem isn't clear to me.

First, define "bibb". Do you mean the rod sticking out that used to have an handle which you now have to turn with pliers to shut to water off? That would be the "stem".

Most people would assume "hose bib", the whole piece at the end of the pipe that contains the stem with the on/off handle and the threaded opening where the garden hose is attached.

Is the leak dripping through the place where the hose attaches, as in I can't completely shut off the water using the handle?

Or, is the leak at the spot where you turn the water on/off, like from underneath or around the handle or stem?

If so, this repair is normally just a washer, possibly packing, and is done by disassembling the hose bib to reach the parts.

Some cheap hose bibs can't be repaired (or don't use washers) and must be replaced. (read further)

Is the leak where the hose bib screws onto the pipe? You comment about "without putting the entire pipe in jeopardy" suggests this may be the case.

If so, detach and reattach with pipe dope/Teflon thread tape to make a better seal with the pipe.

Unfortunately some hose bibs are soldered (copper pipe). Perhaps the seam can't be reached because the brick was added after the house was built. But even then, removing and replacing a few bricks is a viable option -- you just need to use TLC and time (and probably a grinder), instead of speeding with a jack-hammer.

Is the hose bib actually a "winter proof" bib? That's actually a long (2') pipe with the actual valve at the far end well inside the house, and only the shutoff and hose connection at the wall end. If so, replacing those can be a bitch.

Sometimes the whole freeze-proof faucet can be unscrewed and removed. Some times they are soldered, and twisting them will break the pipe. Someone who takes a chance of unscrewing it without seeing how it is actually fastened is taking a big risk.

If you truly wish to disable the pipe (and valve at the end), I'd look inside the house, crawl space, basement. If you are on a slab, the pipe will have to pass through the wall (though only for a run of inches), and you have to open the wall inside the house where the pipe passes though. After y get ot the pipe, some "real" plumbing will probably be required, i.e. it's an experienced DIY or handyman type job.

Your idea of capping the place where the hose connects won't work because water will pass though the valve (it leaks) and fill the part that is supposed to be empty when the water is off. That will freeze, starting with the part outside the hose and working inward.

PS: The threads on a garden hose are slightly different than regular pipe threads, and can easily be mistaken for each other. Have someone at the hardware store double check you.

 

[nfrrdscnnr1]

should

There should be access to the actual valve, generally involving a washer and a seat against which the washer presses to eliminate the water flow. That is true whether it is a so-valled freeze-proof or regular faucet. Generally remove the handle and the packing nut under it AFTER TURNING OFF THE WATER SUPPLY and the problem will ne obvious. Replace the washer and, maybe, dress the seat with a tool and that should do it.

 

[box13]

What I want to do is put a pipe cap with Teflon on the threads and render the faucet unusable. A quick, cheap fix.

Is there any reason this won't work?

No, not really. It probably will. You're hoping for 2 things: 1) the faucet can be wrenched off, and 2) there's some "good enough" thread there left to get the threads of the cap started and enough to seal.

"Old house" could mean that a) yes, that happens, or b) the pipe breaks off at the thread but beyond the wall were you can reach, or c) the short nipple that goes from the valve to a "T" or a elbow comes off instead, leaving a threaded female pipe hole that a new nipple and cap might be able to seal up.

There should be access to the actual valve, generally involving a washer and a seat against which the washer presses to eliminate the water flow. That is true whether it is a so-valled freeze-proof or regular faucet. Generally remove the handle and the packing nut under it AFTER TURNING OFF THE WATER SUPPLY and the problem will ne obvious. Replace the washer and, maybe, dress the seat with a tool and that should do it.

This is a good suggestion. Just change out the faucet seals...the valve seal and the stem packing, probably $5 in parts...and leave it off.

The estimate sounds really high for what's involved. I'm no brick mason, however. Seems like you could just extract the existing brick and reattach with some mortar, which is not expensive at all. But I'm sure anyone who's said "sure I can do that" and then got into trouble with old badly done repairs from previous owners...more damage than was visible...etc., etc.,...has probably felt pretty stupid for working for free.

 

[jaF0]

I have an old house, brick veneer (half thick brick...I think). I have an outside faucet protruding from the brick. It no longer shuts off completely. The bibb is too short to put a pipe wrench on, so I have to use an adjustable one. I cannot tighten the faucet on the short extension any further; without putting the entire pipe in jeopardy.

It's over 2K to break into the wall and fix the faucet correctly. A quote from a plumber, and a brick mason.

What I want to do is put a pipe cap with Teflon on the threads and render the faucet unusable. A quick, cheap fix.

Is there any reason this won't work?

A picture might help.

 

[TheOldWidow]

Thanks all for the suggestions.
More background: House is concrete slab construction. NO WAY to access the pipes in the wall or floor with out breaking out the brick outside and concrete floor.. The pipes were laid in the concrete. That's why I have to be so careful. Pipes are in the part of the house built in 1956. Never been changed out. I'm sure they must be weak with electrolysis.

Water shut off is 373 feet away at the meter box by the road. (no shut off in or near the house.)
IF, I shut the water off, I have to drain 373 feet of water? Correct?

Hopefully I can control water usage so I don't have to shut off gas hot water heater. State law requires I have a licensed HIVAC man come and restart the water heater and the gas furnace. 80.00 bucks for a house call.

I don't want to break into the water system. That has the potential to be more money than the house is worth, if I have to replace all the pipes buried in the concrete, pour new concrete slab and brick veneer for the wall.

I bought a cap and Teflon tape and I'm going to do that tomorrow, while I get more estimates. The drip has attracted a bazillion ants, and they want in. That's why I'm in such a hurry to cap the leak.

Is there a way to replumb the water system by running new pipes overhead? I have an attic space for the heating ducts that could be used. Then I could just drain the old pipes and cap them off.

Picture would just show a faucet sticking out of a brick wall, w/no stem. I have had the handle off, and to go any further, I would have to turn the water off. I checked when I put the handle back on, and it's fairly new. The screw in the center is properly seated.

 

[jaF0]

It might be time to move.

Seriously .. NO water shutoffs anywhere in the house?

I may have 10 places I can shut a segment off to work on it.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

Your first idea was spot on.
You can go to any home supply store and they can sell you a plastic or metal cap that is the same threads as the hose. You can cap it off.
You you ever want to use it again just take the cap off.

 

[jaF0]

Your first idea was spot on.
You can go to any home supply store and they can sell you a plastic or metal cap that is the same threads as the hose. You can cap it off.
You you ever want to use it again just take the cap off.

And when the pipe freezes and busts inside the wall are you gonna go fix it for her?

 

[jaF0]

Water shut off is 373 feet away at the meter box by the road. (no shut off in or near the house.)
IF, I shut the water off, I have to drain 373 feet of water? Correct?

Hopefully I can control water usage so I don't have to shut off gas hot water heater.

Neighbors or relatives that are handy and trustworthy?


I wouldn't see any reason to drain the full system or turn the HWH off. Water needs to be turned off to eliminate the pressure, but that can be done at the meter if necessary.



Are you ever planning on using that outside spigot again? If not, you may be able to plug that pipe back a foot or so inside itself with some kind of foam before capping it off.

And for that matter, do you live in an area where freezing is an issue?

 

[Weird Harold]

Thanks all for the suggestions.
More background: House is concrete slab construction. NO WAY to access the pipes in the wall or floor with out breaking out the brick outside and concrete floor.. The pipes were laid in the concrete. That's why I have to be so careful. Pipes are in the part of the house built in 1956. Never been changed out. I'm sure they must be weak with electrolysis.

Walls have two sides. You should be able to open the interior wall inside much easier than breaking the brick. Closing up the hole is much simpler also -- down to an easy DIY level.

Open the interior wall, find where the pipe come out of the concrete slab into the wall on its way to the outside tap and have a plumber cut and cap the pipe inside the wall.

Alternatively, disconnect (or cut) at the elbow turning to the outside and drive the old tap and pipe out of the wall and replace the tap and pipe back to the elbow. Whether you'd be dealing with a threaded or soldered elbow would be the main complication.

Is there a way to replumb the water system by running new pipes overhead? I have an attic space for the heating ducts that could be used. Then I could just drain the old pipes and cap them off.

Re-plumbing the entire house through the attic is a MAJOR reconstruction effort. Every "wet wall" in the house would have to be opened up to access the old plumbing and route new piping. Even using PEX tubing which can be routed like wiring with a "fish tape" would still need the walls opened to access the old pipes to disconnect and cap them.

 

[TheOldWidow]

Thank you everyone. I appreciate the advise. I think this looks like that spot between a rock and a hard place.

I threaded the cap on with tape, When the ground dries out, I can put bait out for the ants.
Short term solution, but good until Dec./Jan when we have a cold snap. At least it will give me time to contact a couple more estimates.

There are four 'wet' walls, and two of those are against outside walls. One bath room and the utility room back one another. The second bathroom and the kitchen have pipes that come up through the exterior walls.

 

[Sir Victor]

What have you done all these years to avoid freezing?

I've used this, and I also wrap the faucet with an old towel, then put the cover over it:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Creative-Plastic-Concepts-Hard-Plastic-Faucet-Cover/50427110

For the warm months you could just put on a shut off coupler:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Orbit-3-4-in-Threaded-Brass-Shut-Off-Coupling-27933/100659291

Cap it in the winter.

I'd use this for the ants, don't use the dust version since there is a chance of inhaling
the dust. Wear a mask and gloves when handling this granular version:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Terro-Outdoor-Ant-Killer-3-lb/17126891

You can go all around the foundation with it or just along the wall that has the
problem. I wouldn't use it in the house. Read the directions and be careful of
pets, children, etc.

 

[Weird Harold]

There are four 'wet' walls, and two of those are against outside walls. One bath room and the utility room back one another. The second bathroom and the kitchen have pipes that come up through the exterior walls.

Where is your problem tap in relation to those walls?

 

[ReadyOne]

Thanks all for the suggestions.
More background: House is concrete slab construction. NO WAY to access the pipes in the wall or floor with out breaking out the brick outside and concrete floor.. The pipes were laid in the concrete. That's why I have to be so careful. Pipes are in the part of the house built in 1956. Never been changed out. I'm sure they must be weak with electrolysis.

Not code to have any final connections encased in concrete. The valve should disconnectable.

Pipe will be accessible through inside wall per Harold.

Water shut off is 373 feet away at the meter box by the road. (no shut off in or near the house.)
IF, I shut the water off, I have to drain 373 feet of water? Correct?

Not completely. If the valve is at the lowest point, you may end up draining the house. Most of the water will say in the service line from the road, as it is at a level lower than the valve. (If your house is a few feet down the grade from the road, you could end up draining some of the service line.)

If you have to solder, the water has to be kept a foot or so back from the joint or it will absorb too much heat to solder. (There are tricks to put things into the pipe to hold the water back.) In some cases, compressed air is used to force out the water in the house to a level below the problem point.

If you are changing the valve, you can use plumber's dope and just ignore the water dripping. You can ignore the trickle for a washer change too.

Draining is not truly a problem, the house will refill when you turn the water back on, and air will come out until things purge. Open the highest cold water valve before you turn the water back on.

There should be another shutoff (code again), possibly just outside the house where the pipe enters. It may be in a box that has been buried over the years, thus a problem to find without locating the feed from the road and digging.

Hopefully I can control water usage so I don't have to shut off gas hot water heater. State law requires I have a licensed HIVAC man come and restart the water heater and the gas furnace. 80.00 bucks for a house call.

This is part of the "plumber's full employment act" justified by "safety".

1. All gas water heaters have safety devices that turn the gas off if the pilot light goes out, or don't even have a pilot light any more.

2. All water heaters have a shut off valve at the inlet side (code again), so turn the water going into the heater off (cold) side (before you turn the house water off), and you won't lose any hot water. Verify that the hot water doesn't work, but cold still does. Then turn off house.

You won't have to turn the water heater gas off, so there's no issue with the law. DIY instructions for starting a gas water heater are posted on the tank, control/safety valve, fire box door, etc.

I don't want to break into the water system. That has the potential to be more money than the house is worth, if I have to replace all the pipes buried in the concrete, pour new concrete slab and brick veneer for the wall.

I bought a cap and Teflon tape and I'm going to do that tomorrow, while I get more estimates. The drip has attracted a bazillion ants, and they want in. That's why I'm in such a hurry to cap the leak.

Is there a way to replumb the water system by running new pipes overhead? I have an attic space for the heating ducts that could be used. Then I could just drain the old pipes and cap them off.

Picture would just show a faucet sticking out of a brick wall, w/no stem. I have had the handle off, and to go any further, I would have to turn the water off. I checked when I put the handle back on, and it's fairly new. The screw in the center is properly seated.

Two basic valves:
http://www.masterplumbermn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Frost-proof-faucet.jpg

Frost proof, with some parts:
https://knoji.com/images/user/fpf-stem-assembly.jpg

https://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbing/faucet-repair/how-to-stop-a-freeze-proof-faucet-from-leaking/view-all

Regular valve, with internal parts:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/RCRwd.jpg

 

[Porkwarrior]

I have an old house, brick veneer (half thick brick...I think). I have an outside faucet protruding from the brick. It no longer shuts off completely. The bibb is too short to put a pipe wrench on, so I have to use an adjustable one. I cannot tighten the faucet on the short extension any further; without putting the entire pipe in jeopardy.

It's over 2K to break into the wall and fix the faucet correctly. A quote from a plumber, and a brick mason.

What I want to do is put a pipe cap with Teflon on the threads and render the faucet unusable. A quick, cheap fix.

Is there any reason this won't work?

Thanks all for the suggestions.
More background: House is concrete slab construction. NO WAY to access the pipes in the wall or floor with out breaking out the brick outside and concrete floor.. The pipes were laid in the concrete. That's why I have to be so careful. Pipes are in the part of the house built in 1956. Never been changed out. I'm sure they must be weak with electrolysis.

Water shut off is 373 feet away at the meter box by the road. (no shut off in or near the house.)
IF, I shut the water off, I have to drain 373 feet of water? Correct?

Hopefully I can control water usage so I don't have to shut off gas hot water heater. State law requires I have a licensed HIVAC man come and restart the water heater and the gas furnace. 80.00 bucks for a house call.

I don't want to break into the water system. That has the potential to be more money than the house is worth, if I have to replace all the pipes buried in the concrete, pour new concrete slab and brick veneer for the wall.

I bought a cap and Teflon tape and I'm going to do that tomorrow, while I get more estimates. The drip has attracted a bazillion ants, and they want in. That's why I'm in such a hurry to cap the leak.

Is there a way to replumb the water system by running new pipes overhead? I have an attic space for the heating ducts that could be used. Then I could just drain the old pipes and cap them off.

Picture would just show a faucet sticking out of a brick wall, w/no stem. I have had the handle off, and to go any further, I would have to turn the water off. I checked when I put the handle back on, and it's fairly new. The screw in the center is properly seated.

Okay horseshit aside, you are POSITIVE your water pipes are laid INSIDE the concrete slab foundation? Because that is crazy, because of exactly this situation.

It it isn't laid in the slab itself, it's a stupid easy job that maybe might cost you $40 at Home Depot, hell I did the same thing for my parents and I'm looking at everything you'd need right now.

If your pipe are actually laid into the slab, how is the faucet connected to the pipe, threads or solder? The old faucet is toast, we need to get a new faucet on there, if there isn't enough exposed pipe to cut the old faucet off and solder on an extension with a new faucet, if your water pipes actually DO run through the slab concrete foundation...you're fucked, and $2k is a low estimate.

Before you write a cheque, check under the crawl space to make sure the that faucet's pipe isn't exposed somewhere close. I bet it is, or you have one fucked up house and no wonder the original owners bailed.

 

[Porkwarrior]

Hell PM me as many pictures as you can take, my parents were quoted the same ridiculous $2k quote. I fixed it with two cigarettes and 20mins over an Easter dinner and barely got my hands dirty.

I just hate/despise/they can go fuck themselves, contractors that teach employees to fuck customers over when they can.

 

[TheOldWidow]

Where is your problem tap in relation to those walls?

The faucet in question is.........imagine a giant U the faucet is at the bottom of the U, the kitchen sink on the right arm. Faucet and sink are 12' away, if you measure by the floor boards.

Main bath is across the hall from the left arm of the U. Master bath and utility room are back to back across the family room from the bottom of the U.

I use the Styrofoam faucet covers during the winter, but this is N, Carolina in the mountains. We typically get about 4 to 5 weeks of hard winter; (30 to 20 degrees) and snow.

I've owned this house for 2 years, and I had two different house inspections done before I bought it. I wasn't happy with the first one, he was a relative of the seller and didn't disclose that to me until he had collected his payment.

The second inspection uncovered a couple of minor, additional problems and the dripping faucet.
At that time, tightening it well, stopped the drip.

I discovered the ants in the house yesterday morning, went outside to see if I could find the nest, and discovered the faucet cover full of water. I used a pipe wrench to hold the body of the faucet while I tightened the handle once again.

It drips one right after the other. My water bill was up about .80 cents this past month.

I had thought about attaching a short hose and directing the water straight out of the U shape into the lawn. But then, that might be an invitation for the hose to be used, and I didn't want the handle turned. The handle is to the point of being immovable with wrenches. But I have Grandkids here probably 4 days out of seven, and they know where my tools are.

So cheap, quick fix to banish the ants; these are the little sugar ants, but I especially don't want to attract fire ants.

 

[Porkwarrior]

A pic is worth a thousand words...when the sun is up let's see this mischievous faucet.

And if it's NC there's a crawl space.

Hell I'm almost tempted to come down and fix it for you because it's probably so simple. You really do need to get in that crawlspace AND MAKE SURE the pipes are in the slab, or are just sticking through the slab.

It literally could be a 20mins $40 fix.

 

[TheOldWidow]

A pic is worth a thousand words...when the sun is up let's see this mischievous faucet.

And if it's NC there's a crawl space.

Hell I'm almost tempted to come down and fix it for you because it's probably so simple. You really do need to get in that crawlspace AND MAKE SURE the pipes are in the slab, or are just sticking through the slab.

It literally could be a 20mins $40 fix.

Sir,

There is no crawl space. No foundation walls, no vents to aerate the underneath, the house is built on a 8" concrete slab.

Looking things over more carefully,...the interior walls of the house are wall board and insulation over concrete block. So I'm betting a dime that the pipes run inside the concrete blocks.

Thank you so much for your offer of help. I do so appreciate that you are willing to come look things over. Widow.

 

[Weird Harold]

Looking things over more carefully,...the interior walls of the house are wall board and insulation over concrete block. So I'm betting a dime that the pipes run inside the concrete blocks

If they do, that $2K estimate might be realistic.

Still, going at the problem from inside would let you put a winter shutoff valve where the pipe comes out of the concrete slab and extend the outside tap so it is easier to work on the next time it needs work. Going from inside avoids breaking and repairing the brick-work.

The pipes may run between the concrete block and the wall-board. Most rough-in in concrete slabs I've seen have the rough-in locations through the slab instead of the foundation. That would suggest that your problem tap's pipe comes up in the house rather than in the wall, which would make repair/replacement fairly easy.

The faucet in question is.........imagine a giant U the faucet is at the bottom of the U, the kitchen sink on the right arm. Faucet and sink are 12' away, if you measure by the floor boards.

Main bath is across the hall from the left arm of the U. Master bath and utility room are back to back across the family room from the bottom of the U.

That suggests that the problem tap is on a separate pipe (rough-in) than any other cold water supply, or that it is on the central feed for the kitchen and main bath.

Where's the water heater?



It might be worthwhile to "Ask This Old House." You might get to be on TV and have Richard Trethewy come and fix your problem.

 

[TheOldWidow]

hot water heater, furnace and washer and dryer are in utility room...about 25' from the wall that holds the problem faucet. On the back side of the utility room is a Florida room and a patio.

It's hard to picture, but the house is long and narrow.