Need an opinion...

[FallingToFly]

I have, in addition to Falling, American Baby, Wicked Ways (and all attendant headaches), Star Breaker (a young adult novel I've been rewriting on and off since I was 13 or so), and a untitled WIP novel, a novel based on The Crow series of books. I think it's good, I know it's an interesting read at least to a certain type of reader and I'd like to put it on Lit, but I don't think it should go in Celebrities. It isn't a Celeb novel, it's an actual orginal novel in the vein of a established series. Any suggestions on how to negogiate this little minefield? Any commentary, even negative commentary, is greatly appreciated.

 

[rgraham666]

If you're wandering into a minefield, can I have your stereo.

Done being funny.

Novels and Novellas is the only cat I can think of.

 

[FallingToFly]

If you're wandering into a minefield, can I have your stereo.

Done being funny.

Novels and Novellas is the only cat I can think of.

Do you really want me stereo? My music collection I can see wanting, but.. that thing? Hell, you can have it now, AND all my vinyl to go along with.

And thanks.. I want to put it in Novels and Novellas, but I'm really not looking forward to A) those powers who be who disagree and recat it and B) those who agree and want to know why the fuck it's in Celeb.

 

[rgraham666]

Do you really want me stereo? My music collection I can see wanting, but.. that thing? Hell, you can have it now, AND all my vinyl to go along with.

And thanks.. I want to put it in Novels and Novellas, but I'm really not looking forward to A) those powers who be who disagree and recat it and B) those who agree and want to know why the fuck it's in Celeb.

You have vinyl? Cool. Almost all my stuff is vinyl.

 

[Liar]

I have, in addition to Falling, American Baby, Wicked Ways (and all attendant headaches), Star Breaker (a young adult novel I've been rewriting on and off since I was 13 or so), and a untitled WIP novel, a novel based on The Crow series of books. I think it's good, I know it's an interesting read at least to a certain type of reader and I'd like to put it on Lit, but I don't think it should go in Celebrities. It isn't a Celeb novel, it's an actual orginal novel in the vein of a established series. Any suggestions on how to negogiate this little minefield? Any commentary, even negative commentary, is greatly appreciated.

Does it play out in an existing literary universe, or is it just in the same style as one? Are characters, places or very specific concepts that are someone else's creation appear in your story at all, even mentioned in the margin? Then it might have to be considered fan fiction/celebrity literature.

If not...fuck, just post it in the category you see fit. And to be safe, leave a comment for the sceener that clarify that even though it's similar in style and ideas to this or that book, there are no actual specific infigments, so it's not a Celeb story.

 

[AchtungNight]

You face the same worries any writer faces, friend, whether you write something original or not. Will your story come across the way you want it to? Will you gather more fans to you and your subjects by putting your thoughts out there in the world? Will your thoughts be well-received, and if not, what next? Who will read your story? Who will find something they like in it and comment? Will you be able to do that which you set out to do?

The best answer I can give you- I don't know. No writer, no creator, ever does. All we can do is make our stories and get them out there. With luck, the points, characters, themes, and so on we hope to illustrate through them will get to the majority of the readers through osmosis and white noise. Anyone who speaks can only hope for the same. You can plan all you want, hope for the best all you want, but no plan survives the battlefield intact. All you can do is keep trying and hopefully learn from your mistakes. As a great writer once said, "God is cruel. Sometimes he makes you live."

I think I can comfortably say I feel your pain quite strongly. I myself post stories about celebrities and movies that are not really meant as fanfics about those things. More than that, they are about characters living with similar pains and loves in their lives and experiencing similar stages of growth and emotion. Yes, the stories have a lot in common with the movies that inspired them, as do the characters with the real people who inspired them, but in the end they are different. My Wolverine is not Joss Whedon's Wolverine or Stan Lee's or any other writer's. He's just a character. My Upside of Anger fanfic The Rendezvous is not the same as the movie, it's just a similar story with similar characters done in the same vein. It really has more in common with Neverwhere than Upside anyway. Few of my reviewers see this, few of them analyze the story based on how well it voices my fantasy. More often I get jerks who say stuff like "you should have had Magneto keep his powers" or "you should not have made Celeb X a nymphomaniac" or so on and so forth. Few see clearly all the influences and emotions that inspire a writer's mind when he makes something. Far fewer still are able to comment intelligently on it in public.

Remember, in the end, the categories are only there for convienence. Many of the stories in this site are not just part of one single category. Take Colleen Thomas's "The Spy Wore Petticoats." It's lesbian, a novel, a period historical piece, contains elements of horror and sci-fi, and fits in so many other categories I really can't go on. Take my "The Rendezvous." This story too is an epic tale that is almost a novel. It contains lesbian sex, diverse characters, satirical elements, fantasy elements, masturbation, fetishes in great number, swinging, and, yes, characters based on celebrities. Both these stories cross several genres and yet the admins of this site need a little box to stick them in for their convienence and the reader's. Thus they end up in those little boxes. Hopefully they still get read and enjoyed, and commented on, by the right people. That's all we can do- hope.

We writers are creators, and like all creators, we have no control over how our inventions are recieved or how they grow for those who witness them. Mikhail Kalashnikov did not mean for his AK-47 to be used so widely by terrorists. He hoped only to defend his country with it, and his beliefs. Yet reality got in the way... And now Mikhail is feeling anger over how his creation has been seen and used. And yet he deals with it. Like Alfred Nobel, he contributes to charity and preaches that he did not intend for things to be this way. He can only hope he is believed. All creators can say the same about what they make.

I hope you and all writers here understand this rant. Now- a reasonable suggestion. Submit the story to Novels and Novellas or wherever you think it best fits. Explain your reasoning in the author's notes when you make the submission. If you're lucky, you'll get the story in the place you want it. If not, oh well, at least it will still be up and read by many of the right people and they will react to it in the way that you hope. More likely is that you will encounter the mines which you fear. But do not dread those mines. Do not let them stop you from creating. Plan for them. Anticipate them. Deal with them. Dance among them, and remember that love can bloom on a battlefield. (Thank you, Metal Gear!)

I look forward to reading your story. I am a big fan of The Crow. I once even created a villain's moll character named Crow based on the characters I saw in that series. She was a Devil-worshipping young Goth black girl with the power to turn invisible who tied herself to a crime boss who was really a demonic dragon in disguise and acted as his consort and personal spy. No reader who read the stories I did about Crow ever tied the series and the character together. I was shocked at this, but I shrugged and let it go. The character was still well-received, as all my characters have been. Hopefully it will be the same for your work based on The Crow.

Keep up the good work, friend. Write, create, and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Like all your readers, I hope to again do the same soon.

 

[FallingToFly]

Does it play out in an existing literary universe, or is it just in the same style as one? Are characters, places or very specific concepts that are someone else's creation appear in your story at all, even mentioned in the margin? Then it might have to be considered fan fiction/celebrity literature.

If not...fuck, just post it in the category you see fit. And to be safe, leave a comment for the sceener that clarify that even though it's similar in style and ideas to this or that book, there are no actual specific infigments, so it's not a Celeb story.

There is an existing story series entitled The Crow: Story Title, based on the original graphic novel by James O'Barr. Poppy Z Brite did one, as did S.P. Somtow. There's a bunch of them, all different. This falls into that line. It is indeed a Crow novel- but it's an original, new characters, new situation, new villians, etc.

 

[AchtungNight]

There is an existing story series entitled The Crow: Story Title, based on the original graphic novel by James O'Barr. Poppy Z Brite did one, as did S.P. Somtow. There's a bunch of them, all different. This falls into that line. It is indeed a Crow novel- but it's an original, new characters, new situation, new villians, etc.

I need to check these books out.

 

[FallingToFly]

I need to check these books out.

Both The Lazarus Heart by Poppy Z Brite and Temple of Night by S.P Somchow are incredible. I prefer the former hough, simply for the lushness of the writing.

 

[Liar]

There is an existing story series entitled The Crow: Story Title, based on the original graphic novel by James O'Barr. Poppy Z Brite did one, as did S.P. Somtow. There's a bunch of them, all different. This falls into that line. It is indeed a Crow novel- but it's an original, new characters, new situation, new villians, etc.

Commersially published novels then? My guess is that they probably have the legal thing sorted out. Like, on paper. With signatures. Maybe even economic compensation.

But the real question is as I said: What does YOUR story contain, specifically, that links it to O'Barrs 'The Crow'?

I think you must steer clear of some things in order not label it a Celeb story:

1. Do not mention characters/places/trademarks in your story that those people have created. Unless you mention them as characters in a grapgic novel instead of real people. I mean, I can mention Mickey Mouse as a Disney character without having the ghost of Walt breathing down my neck. But I can't use him as a figure in my universe.

2. Do not title it "The Crow: Your Story Title." That's most probably trademarked by O'Barr or his publisher.

3. Whether or not you can have dead people coming back with crow totems in your story is...well...a grey area, legally. A lawyer could claim that that is an infrigment on the artistic concept of OBarr's creation. Whether one cares or not about if free fiction on the web compies the idea, is another question. Anyway,

Lit's Celeb disclaimer steers clear of that for you, by labeling it (legally) parody, even if it's often more of a homage.

Or get permission for the dude himself. Not only because you then can do as you damn well please. But mostly because it would be, like, utterly cool.

 

[AchtungNight]

Well said, Liar. Wish I could do that for real with a lot of people.

 

[FallingToFly]

Commersially published novels then? My guess is that they probably have the legal thing sorted out. Like, on paper. With signatures. Maybe even economic compensation.

But the real question is as I said: What does YOUR story contain, specifically, that links it to O'Barrs 'The Crow'?

I think you must steer clear of some things in order not label it a Celeb story:

1. Do not mention characters/places/trademarks in your story that those people have created. Unless you mention them as characters in a grapgic novel instead of real people. I mean, I can mention Mickey Mouse as a Disney character without having the ghost of Walt breathing down my neck. But I can't use him as a figure in my universe.

2. Do not title it "The Crow: Your Story Title." That's most probably trademarked by O'Barr or his publisher.

3. Whether or not you can have dead people coming back with crow totems in your story is...well...a grey area, legally. A lawyer could claim that that is an infrigment on the artistic concept of OBarr's creation. Whether one cares or not about if free fiction on the web compies the idea, is another question. Anyway,

Lit's Celeb disclaimer steers clear of that for you, by labeling it (legally) parody, even if it's often more of a homage.

Or get permission for the dude himself. Not only because you then can do as you damn well please. But mostly because it would be, like, utterly cool.

I think he's actually dead. :S Which is why they started this thing.. remember that TV show The Crow: Stairway to Heaven? I think he had forgotten something in his legalities binding the name and concept (I vaguely remember a discussion in the writing group) so it was open season on it. I'll have to research it. I do know that both Brite and Sonchow volunteered to write their Crow stories.

The thing about the Crow series is- it was never the same person from story to story. It started with Eric Draven, then it was Ashe Corbin, then Iris... and it went on and on- once their mission was accomplish, the wrongs had been set right, it was back to the grave... except in Ashe's case, and Sarah traded places- she died, he lived. And that was a fucking weird twist anyhow. This story is a one-shot story.. well, novel. There are no sequels or prequels, it's a completely singular tapestry. That's why I'm wondering. I fully intend to put one of my standard disclaimers on it, actually, the one it has on it now is:

Disclaimer: This story is a complete original and unauthorized story of The Crow, created by James O'Barr. All characters, situations and settings in this piece are mine. There is no intent to make profit off this story (unless you'd LIKE to buy it from me, O Mighty Harper-Collins/Edward R. Pressman Film Co.!). it was written solely for entertainment purposes, and because I felt that this story wanted to be told.

I just really don't want it in Celeb... it will get shredded.

 

[AchtungNight]

Your disclaimer speaks to me, FtF. Truly I feel your pain. All I can say to you in addition to my earlier rant is to go ahead and post the story anyway without fear. Yes, it may very well get shredded, but who cares? For every troll who makes a bad remark, there are at least a dozen other readers who smile, give a quiet thumbs-up, then say nothing at all because they can't form the words.

That's what I keep telling myself, anyway.

 

[FallingToFly]

Your disclaimer speaks to me, FtF. Truly I feel your pain. All I can say to you in addition to my earlier rant is to go ahead and post the story anyway without fear. Yes, it may very well get shredded, but who cares? For every troll who makes a bad remark, there are at least a dozen other readers who smile, give a quiet thumbs-up, then say nothing at all because they can't form the words.

That's what I keep telling myself, anyway.

Thanks AN and everyone else who gave an opinion. I'm still torn... I want to put this story in Lit archives, bt I may end up just scrapping the idea for that.

 

[AchtungNight]

Up to you, man. But I hope you'll at least let some of us read the story now that you've taken so much time to tell us about it.

 

[672]

Sooo, do I have to read Killing Loneliness, before I get to read this story, as well?

I don't know where the hell you should put it, because I don't know this place. Hrms. I say put it where ever, and if they come after you, I'll go after them with a heavy bat and a bag of nails. Long, lacquered nails.

Mmhmm. Cause I can do this. I can do anything. I can snap the elastic on perfectly white panties and look delusional. ~snapsherwhiteelastic~ Squirmy!

I don't want to have to destroy people - but I will. For you, Mamahoppah. !

 

[FallingToFly]

You're insane, 672...

I'm going to go ahead and throw a couple of chapters up- going to try to get them into Novels and Novellas, but if they end up in Celeb I'll just grin and bear it. Going to wait until everything I have pending goes up though. So, in about two weeks, it should be up- as long as they accept it.

 

[AchtungNight]

FtF: Best of luck, friend. Best of luck. (edited for correction of slang term)

 

[FallingToFly]

FtF: Best of luck, friend. Best of luck. (edited for correction of slang term)

Slang terms are bad? Aww man!

 

[672]

Slang terms are bad? Aww man!

Fo' shizzle, y0'.