NBA 2024-25

[MrMikelobe1952]

Last year, there was a basketball thread, started by Carly Ann, which ended up with a lot of focus on the Celtics. Which was great. Because they deserved the attention.
What do folks have to say about this year. I would still make the Celtics the favorite over OKC and Cleveland and anyone else.
But, is there interest this year?

 

[deefalttwunnyfor]

The contrarian in me wanted to start a debate about this but until someone beats the Celts in 7 then you have to go with them. OKC is fun, but doesn't have the depth the Celts do. The metrics I like are depth vs best player on the court. While SGA is up there with Tatum, if the C's are healthy they have to be the favorite. Too many ways to score and too many shooters. Plus elite defense

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

The contrarian in me wanted to start a debate about this but until someone beats the Celts in 7 then you have to go with them. OKC is fun, but doesn't have the depth the Celts do. The metrics I like are depth vs best player on the court. While SGA is up there with Tatum, if the C's are healthy they have to be the favorite. Too many ways to score and too many shooters. Plus elite defense

I think you also have to give some weight to having been through it before.
Most teamsl, no matter how much talent, have to have their key players go through it a few times before they can get over the top.
Jordan and Pippin were together for four years before they made it.
LeBron took 8 years, and did not make it until the second season after putting together his Miami team.
The last several NBA champs had a lot of seasoning.

1981 Celtics are an exception, although they did have some veterans.

 

[deefalttwunnyfor]

I think you also have to give some weight to having been through it before.
Most teamsl, no matter how much talent, have to have their key players go through it a few times before they can get over the top.
Jordan and Pippin were together for four years before they made it.
LeBron took 8 years, and did not make it until the second season after putting together his Miami team.
The last several NBA champs had a lot of seasoning.

1981 Celtics are an exception, although they did have some veterans.

I'm a Heat fan, and watched Wade ever since his entrance to the league. Couldn't believe it when Bron and Bosh said they were coming. That 2011 Dallas finals lives rent-free in my head. I couldn't wrap my head around what I was watching. But you're totally right, playoff experience is major. Playoff basketball and regular season might as well be two different games/leagues. Just look at Jimmy. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the regular season, but typically turns it on in the playoffs

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I'm a Heat fan, and watched Wade ever since his entrance to the league. Couldn't believe it when Bron and Bosh said they were coming. That 2011 Dallas finals lives rent-free in my head. I couldn't wrap my head around what I was watching. But you're totally right, playoff experience is major. Playoff basketball and regular season might as well be two different games/leagues. Just look at Jimmy. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the regular season, but typically turns it on in the playoffs

I really like the way he plays. It doesn't look like he's going to get a title, even though he's a winner and always makes his team better.
Do you think he is a Hall of Famer?

 

[deefalttwunnyfor]

I really like the way he plays. It doesn't look like he's going to get a title, even though he's a winner and always makes his team better.
Do you think he is a Hall of Famer?

I think he has a really good chance of being elected, with the 5 all-NBA teams and defense team and whatnot. BUT, I don't think he deserves it, no

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I think he has a really good chance of being elected, with the 5 all-NBA teams and defense team and whatnot. BUT, I don't think he deserves it, no

That's interesting.
He's never been on my team, so I've never followed him that closely.
But he has always made his teams better. And his teammates, it seems to me.
The Hall of FAme should be about whether you play the game to win and make your team win.
On the other hand, I'm not so sure he will make it.

Of current players, LeBron, Stef Curry, and Kevin Durant are the clearest candidates. All should be unanimous.
I'm sure Harden and Westbrook will get in, even though I'm not convinced either has been a real winner.
Other players, like Jocik, have just about earned it.
Others are well on the way, like Giannis.

But who else do you think has clearly built a Hall of Fame resume?
Klay Thompson?
Anthony Davis?

 

[deefalttwunnyfor]

That's interesting.
He's never been on my team, so I've never followed him that closely.
But he has always made his teams better. And his teammates, it seems to me.

Yes and no. For sure he elevates a team. Undeniable. But he wrecked Minnesota on his way out. Philly chose Tobias Harris over him. Hindsight is 20/20 but I feel like there was something there. He made Miami better too, but is torching it on his way out

The Hall of FAme should be about whether you play the game to win and make your team win.
On the other hand, I'm not so sure he will make it.

I agree, but a lot of guys make their teams better. 3 and D guys, do it all the time on a small scale. It depends on how far you elevate your team beyond what they were capable of.

Of current players, LeBron, Stef Curry, and Kevin Durant are the clearest candidates. All should be unanimous.
I'm sure Harden and Westbrook will get in, even though I'm not convinced either has been a real winner.
Other players, like Jocik, have just about earned it.
Others are well on the way, like Giannis.

But who else do you think has clearly built a Hall of Fame resume?
Klay Thompson?
Anthony Davis?

I just saw this list today. Someone had edited it for just active players.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html
Apparently Davis is a lock. Klay not so much, but I absolutely believe he should be in. At his peak, he could score like no one I've seen since Jordan. He could get hotter than Curry. Unbelievable quarter totals

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Yes and no. For sure he elevates a team. Undeniable. But he wrecked Minnesota on his way out. Philly chose Tobias Harris over him. Hindsight is 20/20 but I feel like there was something there. He made Miami better too, but is torching it on his way out

That is an interesting point. Sort of reminds me of my take on Kyrie. Or Harden, for that matter. Their personalities and selfishness outways their contributions. Not that I think either Kyrie or Harden elevated a team the way Butler does.

I agree, but a lot of guys make their teams better. 3 and D guys, do it all the time on a small scale. It depends on how far you elevate your team beyond what they were capable of.

I'm not saying that's enuf, on its own, just that its a major factor. Still have to be a real star.

I just saw this list today. Someone had edited it fo

r just active players.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html
Apparently Davis is a lock. Klay not so much, but I absolutely believe he should be in. At his peak, he could score like no one I've seen since Jordan. He could get hotter than Curry. Unbelievable quarter totals

Can't believe I forgot Chris Paul. And I would probably put Kawhi higher, although he made himself the focus of the offense in his prime in a way that did not always help the team. I will use this as a place to make a pitch for my guy Tatum. One of the things that makes him so great is that he does not always have to be the center of the offense. When the defense keys on him, he lets others take over.
Kevin Love, ahead of Butler? Give me a break.

 

[deefalttwunnyfor]

That is an interesting point. Sort of reminds me of my take on Kyrie. Or Harden, for that matter. Their personalities and selfishness outways their contributions. Not that I think either Kyrie or Harden elevated a team the way Butler does.

Kyrie is on a redemption tour in Dallas. BUT his contract and Luka's will make it so hard to get the pieces they need to get a title

I'm not saying that's enuf, on its own, just that its a major factor. Still have to be a real star.
Can't believe I forgot Chris Paul. And I would probably put Kawhi higher, although he made himself the focus of the offense in his prime in a way that did not always help the team. I will use this as a place to make a pitch for my guy Tatum. One of the things that makes him so great is that he does not always have to be the center of the offense. When the defense keys on him, he lets others take over.
Kevin Love, ahead of Butler? Give me a break.

I have Kawhi as a lock. Two finals MVPs? He's in, even if the last 5 years have been a complete disappointment lol
Yeah, barring injury Tatum is a lock. Probably Brown too. Jrue should be too. He's at two rings, and I think he has defensive team nods
Kevin Love is pretty funny. I'm sure its tough to be an athlete in the public eye. But his thing about mental health rubbed me the wrong way. He had earned 300 million and just got engaged to Kate Bock. If the spotlight was too much, then retire and disappear and get the best therapist money can buy. Your life is so much better than 99.99999999% of the population.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Kyrie is on a redemption tour in Dallas. BUT his contract and Luka's will make it so hard to get the pieces they need to get a title

I have Kawhi as a lock. Two finals MVPs? He's in, even if the last 5 years have been a complete disappointment lol
Yeah, barring injury Tatum is a lock. Probably Brown too. Jrue should be too. He's at two rings, and I think he has defensive team nods
Kevin Love is pretty funny. I'm sure its tough to be an athlete in the public eye. But his thing about mental health rubbed me the wrong way. He had earned 300 million and just got engaged to Kate Bock. If the spotlight was too much, then retire and disappear and get the best therapist money can buy. Your life is so much better than 99.99999999% of the population.

I was pleased to see Al Horford on the list. I think that reflects in part the importance to their statistical analysis of longevity. Which, I suppose holds Kawhi back, a little. But I would vote for him ahead of just about everyone on that list except LaBron, Steph Curry and Durant. The only possible reason for putting Chris Paul ahead of Curry is longevity. And Tatum has to have more good years. Which I expect he will.

Here is something I haven't seen discussed. Its probably out there somewhere.
I beieve that, if the Celtics repeat, Al will join a club with only 3 members: Bill Russell, KC Jones, and Kareem.

Am I right?

 

[deefalttwunnyfor]

I was pleased to see Al Horford on the list. I think that reflects in part the importance to their statistical analysis of longevity. Which, I suppose holds Kawhi back, a little. But I would vote for him ahead of just about everyone on that list except LaBron, Steph Curry and Durant. The only possible reason for putting Chris Paul ahead of Curry is longevity.

all time numbers matter here too though. Paul is #2 in assists and about to be #2 in steals. That makes him a lock

And Tatum has to have more good years. Which I expect he will.

He's still 26 somehow. It feels like he should be 30+
Although with playoff game counts he's played as many NBA games as most 30 year olds

Here is something I haven't seen discussed. Its probably out there somewhere.
I believe that, if the Celtics repeat, Al will join a club with only 3 members: Bill Russell, KC Jones, and Kareem.

Am I right?

I apologize, I'm missing the correlation, what's the club? back to back titles at a certain age?

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I apologize, I'm missing the correlation, what's the club? back to back titles at a certain age?

Don’t apologize. I think it’s pretty obscure. Not sure how it occurred to me.
Back to back NCAA titles and back to back NBA titles. If they repeat.
I don’t think anyone else has done it. Others with multiple titles (Walton, Jamaal Wilkes), but none with consecutive titles at both levels.

 

[TunnelKing089]

And of course they haven't watched a Hornets game all year and never heard of the guy till now,let's just jump to conclusions shall we.

Guy is bad on defense,doesn't hustle,and is always injured.Maybe LeBron can motivate him though.

 

[TunnelKing089]

Well that didn't take long,1st game and injured.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43752995/anthony-davis-exits-dominant-debut-lower-body-injury

 

[TunnelKing089]

And of course they haven't watched a Hornets game all year and never heard of the guy till now,let's just jump to conclusions shall we.

Guy is bad on defense,doesn't hustle,and is always injured.Maybe LeBron can motivate him though.

Yep no trade now the guy failed his physical.injured and doesn't hustle like I said.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...eal-nixed-williams-fails-physical-sources-say

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Yep no trade now the guy failed his physical.injured and doesn't hustle like I said.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...eal-nixed-williams-fails-physical-sources-say

So. Who are the real contenders?

 

[TunnelKing089]

So. Who are the real contenders?

I'm taking OKC in the west along with Memphis.Houston is also sneaky good they have accumulated good talent over the past few drafts.Cleveland looks solid but I won't ever count out Boston.Milwaukee still has Giannis also,guy can take over a playoff series.

 

[TunnelKing089]

Yeah Bring It...wows..

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I'm taking OKC in the west along with Memphis.Houston is also sneaky good they have accumulated good talent over the past few drafts.Cleveland looks solid but I won't ever count out Boston.Milwaukee still has Giannis also,guy can take over a playoff series.

As the post-all star stretch run begins:
West: All of the teams you name are playing very good basketball, but here's the thing. The playoffs are very different from the regular season. It pretty consistenly seems like (most) teams need to experence a playoff run or two before they can win a championship. It took Jordan 6 seasons, including 4 with Pippen, before he got over the hump. I haven't gone over the last dozen title teams in detail, but it seems like all of them were led by players with at least a few years of experience in the playoffs. (Magic's rookie year would be an exception, but the team had Kareem and Jamaal Wilkes, who had championship experience. Admittedly, Magic was the leader). Bird and McHale won in their second season. Not sure if Tiny Archibald met my criteria. But my point is that the 3 teams you name have very little playoff experience. So, I think Dallas certainly has to be in the mix. If you read my earlier comments, I'm a big fan of JImmy Butler's playoff ability (not his disloyalty), but I think Golden State may be too old to pull another one out of the hat. But that team certainly has people who know how to win.

In the East, my comments about experience certainly bode well for my Celtics. The Knicks are also really good, but lacking the playoff experience. I also think Giannis is great, but I'm not sure if they've figured out the right players to complement him. Middleton and Holiday were perfect supporting players.

So, the more I think about it, the more I like the Celtics' chances. (Don't tell them I said that. Don't want them to get overconfident)

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I'm taking OKC in the west along with Memphis.Houston is also sneaky good they have accumulated good talent over the past few drafts.Cleveland looks solid but I won't ever count out Boston.Milwaukee still has Giannis also,guy can take over a playoff series.

As the post-all star stretch run begins:
West: All of the teams you name are playing very good basketball, but here's the thing. The playoffs are very different from the regular season. It pretty consistenly seems like (most) teams need to experence a playoff run or two before they can win a championship. It took Jordan 6 seasons, including 4 with Pippen, before he got over the hump. I haven't gone over the last dozen title teams in detail, but it seems like all of them were led by players with at least a few years of experience in the playoffs. (Magic's rookie year would be an exception, but the team had Kareem and Jamaal Wilkes, who had championship experience. Admittedly, Magic was the leader). Bird and McHale won in their second season. Not sure if Tiny Archibald met my criteria. But my point is that the 3 teams you name have very little playoff experience. So, I think Dallas certainly has to be in the mix. If you read my earlier comments, I'm a big fan of JImmy Butler's playoff ability (not his disloyalty), but I think Golden State may be too old to pull another one out of the hat. But that team certainly has people who know how to win.

In the East, my comments about experience certainly bode well for my Celtics. The Knicks are also really good, but lacking the playoff experience. I also think Giannis is great, but I'm not sure if they've figured out the right players to complement him. Middleton and Holiday were perfect supporting players.

So, the more I think about it, the more I like the Celtics' chances. (Don't tell them I said that. Don't want them to get overconfident)

I jave to take that back about the Knicks.
I watched them on Sunday against the Celtics.
They really cannot play defense at a very high level.

 

[TunnelKing089]

I jave to take that back about the Knicks.
I watched them on Sunday against the Celtics.
They really cannot play defense at a very high level.

Knicks are 0-7 against Boston,OKC,and Cleveland.Not sold on them yet.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Knicks are 0-7 against Boston,OKC,and Cleveland.Not sold on them yet.

I was surprised how bad they looked on defense.
Their defense last year improved a lot when Anunobi joined the team. And KAT is a good rim protector. But they really looked slow responding to passes and cuts.