NATO veto frustrates US war plans

[Lancecastor]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/nat/newsnat-11feb2003-3.htm

Clearly both the UN and NATO are saying "It's Too Soon!" to the USA.

Will GWB listen?

Can he save face at this point....or did he fuck himself over already by saying he'd act unilaterally?

Are Americans willing to see themselves become the pariah of the international community over George's ego?

Discuss.

 

[Lancecastor]

The last time we discussed NATO directly, Ishmael proposed the USA leave the Alliance. Many American posters supported his view:

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91640&highlight=NATO

Do you still feel that way? Should the USA go it alone in the world like your President proposes?

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

I dunno about pulling out of the UN. It seems a bit extreme. It would be easier to argue for a NATO pull out since NATO was originally set up to counter the Soviet Bloc.


I still get the impression that it is Belgium, Germany and France who are providing the impetus right now.

Personally, I think its funny that Iraq is offering the US. and Britain cut rate oil if there is no invasion.


When are they going to figure out its not about the oil?

 

[Guest]

Going to war with Iraq is like an invitation for the terroists to blow themselves up in major US cities?

 

[Lancecastor]

Going to war with Iraq is like an invitation for the terroists to blow themselves up in major US cities?

Number of precision-guided missiles and bombs that the United States plans to launch per hour at Baghdad during the war's first 48 hours: 63

Number of days it is expected to take for Baghdad residents to become "physically, emotionally, and psychologically exhausted": 2 to 5

Percentage of U.S. bombs and missiles dropped during the first Gulf War that were precision-guided: 9

Percentage of U.S. bombs and missiles ready to be dropped during the coming war that are precision-guided: 75

Number of U.S. satellite-guided bombs stockpiled in the Gulf region: 6700

Number of U.S. laser-guided bombs stockpiled in the Gulf region: 3000

Number of Americans killed during the first Gulf War: 148

Proportion of Americans killed by "friendly fire" during the first Gulf War: 1 in 3

Number of Iraqis killed during the first Gulf War: 100,000

Number of Americans killed during the "Black Hawk Down" episode in Mogadishu in 1993: 18

Number of Somalis killed during the "Black Hawk Down" episode in Mogadishu in 1993: 500 to 1000

Number of Americans killed during the Vietnam War: 58,000

Number of Vietnamese killed during the Vietnam War: 5.1 million

Number of American soldiers poised for attack at the borders of Iraq: 100,000

Number of Iraqis and Americans who, doctors say, might die in the next war: 48,000 to 260,000

Number of additional deaths expected from the civil war within Iraq following an invasion: 20,000

Number of additional deaths expected from "post-war adverse health effects": 200,000

Number of total deaths if nuclear weapons are used: 3,900,000

Percentage of Americans who believe that oil best explains why the U.S. would use military force against Iraq: 22

Ranking of Iraq among countries with proven reserves of oil: 2

Number of barrels of oil in Iraq's proven reserves: 112,000,000,000

Year that Iraq nationalized all foreign oil holdings: 1972

Year that U.S. oil companies were prohibited from investing in, or buying, Iraqi oil: 1991

Year that Dick Cheney, as head of oil field equipment manufacturer Halliburton, called for the end to sanctions against Iraq: 2000

Number of U.S. Army soldiers ready to decontaminate corpses and send them back home for burial: 700

Ranking of Iraq on the U.N. Human Development Index in 1990: 50th out of 130 nations

Ranking of Iraq on the U.N. Human Development Index in 2000: 126th out of 174 nations

Number of Iraqi children who have died as a direct result of sanctions, according to UNICEF: 500,000

U.S. military spending, in billions of dollars per day: 1.08

Ratio of U.S. military spending to the combined military budgets of Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria: 26 to 1

Percentage of U.S. share of total global military spending in 1985: 31

Percentage of U.S. share of total global military spending in 2000: 36

Number of U.S. states used in 1998 for the staging of mock nuclear attacks on North Korea: 2 (North Carolina and Florida)

Date that the Nuclear Posture Review (signed by Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld), describing contingency plans to use nuclear weapons against China, Russia, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Libya, and Syria, was delivered to Congress: January 8, 2002

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0306/harkavy.php

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Going to war with Iraq is like an invitation for the terroists to blow themselves up in major US cities?

Gee. Like that hasn't already happened without an invasion.

 

[busybody..]

There are 19 members in NATO.

The vote on the request to protect Turkey was passed by 16 countries.

Therefore, as I see it, 16-3 is lopsided.

And it is Germany, France and Belgium, OLD EUROPE that is out of step.

 

[Lancecastor]

And it is Germany, France and Belgium, OLD EUROPE that is out of step.

Older, wiser. The voice of reason.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Older, wiser. The voice of reason.

Naturally.

 

[busybody..]

Older, wiser. The voice of reason.

What is meant by OLD is not age......as all countries have been around for the same lentgh......the term OLD means OLD yesterdays thinking.....For more NEW TERMS see the following, it will help you to understand"

Glossary
------------

For those who, like me, seem to be watching coverage of the Iraq situation as reported by people from a bizarro dimension, in which they speak a language very similar to English, but with subtle and confusing differences, I think that I've finally broken the code, and have thus put together a little translation guide for the rest of us.

"allies":

Nations that we either defeated or liberated six decades ago, and then paid to rebuild half a century ago, and continued to pay for their defense through the Cold War, which has been over for more than a decade, who now feel that they are thereby entitled to obstruct or dictate our foreign policy, which is driven by our own self defense, in the furtherance of the business interests of their corrupt governments and the brutal dictators that they cynically coddle.

"going it alone":

Meaning 1: Taking action in concert with numerous European and Middle-Eastern nations, and others around the globe, but without France and Germany.

Meaning 2: Using the coalition from (1) to enforce numerous UN Security Council resolutions, including one that was passed within the past three months, which was supposed to be final, without going back to the Security Council, hat in hand, to get yet another "final" resolution.

"let the inspections continue":

Allow more time for a few dozen people to literally cluelessly wander around a country hundreds of thousands of square miles in area, searching for things that the Iraqi government has no intention of letting them find, and are hidden in private homes, or mosques, or presidential "palaces" (some of which are themselves the size of typical western cities), or in caves that we don't even know exist, or that are moved just prior to the threat of an actual search in any of these areas, in order to continue to delay military action in the slim hope that some other means of delay can be found while this one continues, or that the weather will get too hot, or that W is so dumb that he will eventually forget why he's doing this, or choke on a pretzel, this time for good, all in order to put off forever the day that we actually remove Saddam Hussein from power.

"making war on the innocent Iraqi people":

Removing a malign tyrant who, along with his vile offspring, has been torturing, starving and murdering the Iraqi people for decades, often for no reason other than his own perverse pleasure, and thus thereby finally giving them peace. To fully satisfy the definition, he must be removed while we spend vast amounts of money on precision munitions to minimize collateral casualties to the Iraqi people, even to the extent of risking higher casualties to our own forces to do so.

"rush to war":

Waiting a dozen years after Saddam signed an agreement to relinquish his weapons of mass destruction; waiting almost half a decade after he threw out the arms inspection teams who were there to see that he carried out his commitment; waiting a year and a half after being attacked by Middle Eastern forces that woke us up to the possibility of our vulnerability to people who have been threatening us for years; waiting over a year after declaring Iraq one of the nations that constitute a danger to the planet; carefully crafting and passing yet another UN Security Council resolution reiterating all the previous ones, with the stated intent of being a final one; waiting two months after the submission of a declaration in response to that supposedly final resolution that was 12,000 pages of non-responsiveness, before actually taking any significant military action to see that Saddam's capability to attack his neighbors and our own nation is eliminated through military force.

"smoking gun":

The level of evidence that will justify removing Saddam Hussein by military force. This one is very precisely defined.

It is a photograph of Saddam Hussein, standing next to fifty-gallon barrels clearly labeled "Anthrax, "Tabun, "Sarin," "VX," "Phosgene," and "Smallpox Virus," along with a suitcase marked "Danger: ACME Suitcase Nuke--Stand Well Back Before Detonating," next to a geiger counter with meter pegged. One of Saddam's hands is evilly twirling his mustache a la Snidely Whiplash, and the other arm is around the shoulder of a hale and hearty Osama bin Laden, who is in turn holding up a clearly-identifiable copy of last Sunday's New York Times.

The picture must be taken by an objective, prize-winning photographer, such as Robert Fisk. No satellite imagery or CIA evidence is acceptable, since such a photo could be easily faked, and its provenance would thus be highly suspect.


I hope that this guide will help make more sense out of the speeches from politicians and commentary by clueless pundits and reporters that you'll continue to hear over the next few weeks.

 

[Guest]

Gee. Like that hasn't already happened without an invasion.

How do you feel about suicide bombers once in a every few days?

They should explode in McDonald's. That'll kill off bad genes.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

How do you feel about suicide bombers once in a every few days?

They should explode in McDonald's. That'll kill off bad genes.

I dunno if that could be sustained for any length of time.

McDonald's Burger King, etc.

 

[Lancecastor]

I dunno if that could be sustained for any length of time.

McDonald's Burger King, etc.

A Whopper could kick Anthrax's ass in a heartbeat.

 

[busybody..]

Going to war with Iraq is like an invitation for the terroists to blow themselves up in major US cities?

This "logic" argues for never doing anything at anytime.

Didnt "they" say the same thing when we went into Afghanistan?

Since when do the terrorists need an excuse? They will attack whenever wherever they can!

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

A Whopper could kick Anthrax's ass in a heartbeat.

Toss in a large fries and its death to everybody.

 

[Lancecastor]

Toss in a large fries and its death to everybody.

The USA has all the peaceful knowhow it needs for global domination.