Mythology Question

[S-Des]

I have a story based on a real person. It involves the character having special significance tied to the story of the Phoenix. Since I'm not sure if the real person's story is all that interesting (and don't want to ask, then not use it), I decided to make up the reasons. Unfortunately, other than the general outline of the mythology, I don't know much about the Phoenix.

Does anyone know a book that is considered to be an excellent source of knowledge on the subject? Also, any insights into the story you'd care to share?

Thanks.
....S-Des

 

[Aurora Black]

Bump.

 

[Weird Harold]

Does anyone know a book that is considered to be an excellent source of knowledge on the subject? Also, any insights into the story you'd care to share?

David Weber highly recommends David and The Pheonix. It's a children's book, but it covers who and what the pheonix is very well by personifying it.

The problem is that there isn't anything that can be considered "The" story of the Pheonix. It's a magical bird that bursts into flames when it dies and is reborn from the ashes. It's a Symbol/God of rebirth depending on which mythology you consult -- the name "Pheonix" is, I believe, a Native American name, but the myth occurs all over the world under various names -- usually translated to "Pheonix."

 

[Aurora Black]

I found the entry in Wikipedia. Unfortunately, it doesn't say much about books on the subject other than Harry Potter...

 

[Weird Harold]

I found the entry in Wikipedia. Unfortunately, it doesn't say much about books on the subject other than Harry Potter...

I had the direction of translation wrong but Wikipedia does mention anything about the Native American fire-bird/thunderbird myths sometimes trnslated as "Pheonix."

David and the Pheonix, which David Weber quotes extensively from in the latest Honor Harrinton novel, is about the Egytian version that build a next of cinnamon twigs as it's funeral pyre.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

No phoenixes there, but the book for Greek mythology is Edith Hamilton's Mythology.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Here's a link to get you started.

 

[S-Des]

Here's a link to get you started.

Thanks guys. This will help, although I'm still hoping someone knows a book out there that deals with the myth specifically (in any culture's mythology). If not, this should get me by (along with my penchant for bull-shitting ).

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

One middle eastern myth..
There is only ONE phoenix ("o" before "e").
Just before it dies it sings a beautfiul song and build a funeral pyre, which is lit by the sun.
After being reduced to ashes.
Then the "new" reborn Phoenix rises from those ashes.

Collecting the ashes it flies to Heliopolis, The Egyptian City of the Sun and delivers them to the priests there. Then it returns to its home in Arabia.

~ resource: "Fantasy Encyclopedia", Judy Allen. Kingfisher 2005

 

[Remec]

Does anyone know a book that is considered to be an excellent source of knowledge on the subject? Also, any insights into the story you'd care to share?

I'd suggest the usual starting point...search engines and/or your local library. I'm not sure where we get our usual phoenix legends from, but I would make a guess at either one of the Greek beasteries or else from out of the Arabian Nights.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Depends on which mythological Phoenix you are looking for.

In Greek Mythology: "In Greek legend, the son of Amyntor and Cleobule. He quarrelled with his father, having seduced his father's mistress, and fled to Phthia, where he became tutor to Achilles."

In Egyptian Mythology: "Said to live for 500 or 1461 years (depending on the source), the phoenix is a male bird with beautiful gold and red plumage. At the end of its life-cycle the phoenix builds itself a nest of cinnamon twigs that it then ignites; both nest and bird burn fiercely and are reduced to ashes, from which a new, young phoenix arises. The new phoenix embalms the ashes of the old phoenix in an egg made of myrrh and deposits it in the Egyptian city of Heliopolis ("the city of the sun" in Greek). The bird was also said to regenerate when hurt or wounded by a foe, thus being almost immortal and invincible — a symbol of fire and divinity." This is a common theme in two chapters of the "Book of the Dead".

In Early Christian Mythology: The Phoenix became the symbol of Resurrection and after-life.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

In Greek Mythology: "In Greek legend, the son of Amyntor and Cleobule. He quarrelled with his father, having seduced his father's mistress, and fled to Phthia, where he became tutor to Achilles."

and then...?

Where's the burdy?
The FIRE?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

and then...?

Where's the burdy?
The FIRE?

In Greek Mythology this is no bird, no fire and no raising from the ashes. That's entirely from the Egyptian Mythology.

Read my entire post.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

In Greek Mythology this is no bird, no fire and no raising from the ashes. That's entirely from the Egyptian Mythology.

Read my entire post.

I did. As well as its source: http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Phoenix+(mythology)

I also read S-Des's. I am pretty sure he is after the Birdy story.




obliviously, you had not read my prior post.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I did.
I also read S-Des's. I am pretty sure he is after the Birdy story.




obliviously, you had not read my prior post.

Yes I did. The question was what is the Phoenix in mythology. My response was all three mythologies concerning the Phoenix. He didn't specify which one he wanted.

I'm sorry you ASS-U-MED he wanted the commen Egyptian Mythology. I did not make that mistake.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

Yes I did. The question was what is the Phoenix in mythology. My response was all three mythologies concerning the Phoenix. He didn't specify which one he wanted.

I'm sorry you ASS-U-MED he wanted the commen Egyptian Mythology. I did not make that mistake.

Perhaps you didn't (make that mistake, but you did in fact act as an ass).

He did, however refer to "the Phoenix", rather than "Phoenix". Which IM-plies the birdy.

And you neglected to site Phoenix as a city.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Perhaps you didn't (make that mistake, but you did in fact act as an ass).

And you neglected to site Phoenix as a city.

Pheonix (This City) is NOT mythological except in small minds.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

Pheonix (This City) is NOT mythological except in small minds.

It IS if you spell it THAT way.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

It IS if you spell it THAT way.

The City name is, in fact, a European Error. The city Mythology behind the name comes from the Thunderbird Myth and not the Phoenix. The Mythologies are not even remotely either culturally or Mythologically connected.

 

[S-Des]

Yes I did. The question was what is the Phoenix in mythology. My response was all three mythologies concerning the Phoenix. He didn't specify which one he wanted.

I'm sorry you ASS-U-MED he wanted the commen Egyptian Mythology. I did not make that mistake.

In this case, Jenny's right, I'm looking for any Mythology. I could just ask the woman in question why she felt a spiritual connection with the Phoenix (she has a 12" tall tatoo that extends from her belly button to between her breasts), but don't want to risk offending her if her story is unusable. I have to come up with my own backstory as to why a person would feel a connection to the story. I have ideas, but need the character to reference something they would have read to make the transition correctly. Selena's link was helpful, but won't translate well for the readers by itself. I was hoping there was a book that was considered a good source where the mythology (any mythology) would be explored. If there isn't, see above bull-shitting comment.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

In this case, Jenny's right, I'm looking for any Mythology. I could just ask the woman in question why she felt a spiritual connection with the Phoenix (she has a 12" tall tatoo that extends from her belly button to between her breasts), but don't want to risk offending her if her story is unusable. I have to come up with my own backstory as to why a person would feel a connection to the story. I have ideas, but need the character to reference something they would have read to make the transition correctly. Selena's link was helpful, but won't translate well for the readers by itself. I was hoping there was a book that was considered a good source where the mythology (any mythology) would be explored. If there isn't, see above bull-shitting comment.

Thanks again for the help.

Are you sure it's a Phoenix, Des? There are some other bird and bird-like creatures in Mythology. Sometimes the Egyptian Sett would take on that form. There is the Thunderbird and a few others I can think of.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

The City name is, in fact, a European Error. The city Mythology behind the name comes from the Thunderbird Myth and not the Phoenix. The Mythologies are not even remotely either culturally or Mythologically connected.

I never ASS-umed they were connected (in mythology). As you had pointed out he wanted "ANY" mythology. and YOU brilliantly gave "all" three, as if they were the ONLY three.

Could not the woman in question also made the mistake of the Europeans? Perhaps she is wearing the City's Phoenix (thunderbird) and not even KNOW one or the other mythology.

Stop playing at being so smart. We can all google.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

Are you sure it's a Phoenix, Des? There are some other bird and bird-like creatures in Mythology. Sometimes the Egyptian Sett would take on that form. There is the Thunderbird and a few others I can think of.

<snort!>

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I never ASS-umed they were connected (in mythology). As you had pointed out he wanted "ANY" mythology. and YOU brilliantly gave "all" three, as if they were the ONLY three.

Could not the woman in question also made the mistake of the Europeans? Perhaps she is wearing the City's Phoenix (thunderbird) and not even KNOW one or the other mythology.

Stop playing at being so smart. We can all google.

Read the post above. I haven't even gotten to the Inca and Mayan Myths. The would be Tetsquattle and others.

Odd how suddenly your rant changed and Des is looking for ALL possible Mythological references after dissing me for giving him references you didn't think of.

 

[S-Des]

Are you sure it's a Phoenix, Des? There are some other bird and bird-like creatures in Mythology. Sometimes the Egyptian Sett would take on that form. There is the Thunderbird and a few others I can think of.

Yeah, it was a dancer that I recently met. I got a VERY good look at it. I asked her about it because it was such an interesting tattoo and a strange place to have as the only one on her body (again, I'm sure about that too ). I asked her about it and she said it held spiritual significance for her, but didn't want to elaborate. I found her so interesting, I wrote a story around her (after asking permission). Since she requested a copy of the completed story, I didn't want to pester her for the details, then paint myself into a corner. But she was very clear, it was a Phoenix, her own design, and had an almost religious connotation for her. In my story, I'm using it as someone rebuilding their life from scratch after a number of problems. Now I just need to find a decent explanation for how the character came across the story and how it could have caught her fascination.