My thoughts on BDSM

[SweetHoney]

Observations by me and thoughts.. you can discuss or through this out the window..

Some one on here once said in a very astute post that "submission is a gift to the Dom"

This statement i think is very to the point.. and brought to mind other things said and then alot of thought

I really think in order for the Dom to control the sub must control also. The sub in order to give the gift controls the situation.. the sub controls the depth things gets to... lol its such a give and take ordeal.. i know my statement will get alot of guff from doms.. and probably get me a couple online swats.. but if you think about it.. its a give and take on both the dom and subs control..

I think in all my reading in here im a sinsation houd and NOT by any means a pain slut.. In reading i think many of the subs in here are like me.. in wanting/needing the stimulation of a spanking.. a feather duster, a tweek and nip and tease..then again i could be wrong.. but in reading on the most part i see this here.

Ive also come to realize why there must be and is trust and love in this.. and in high amounts.. This is not abuse.. like i said too many sinsation hounds out there.. this is giveing the ultimate in pleasure.. this is loveing someone so much that you recieve pleasure in meeting thier needs AND in doing what you do best..how could something as intimate as bearing your soul to another be abuseive??

OK these were my observations and things i so wanted to write and share.. for anyone listening..

 

[Netzach]

I agree that the majority of relationships I've encountered in the scene follow the pattern you describe. The Top provides the experience the bottom is interested in having. They may push a little further out along the proscribed line, but not too far, limits and such are dictated from the bottom, or mutually. (I find the no-limits sub interesting, because I speak to a lot of Doms, myself included who have long and often surprising lists of personal limits.)

I think all relationships are based on give and take, I really don't think that goes away. Even in the harshest of M/s relationships you will find a need to find equilibrium and consensus, even if the consensus arrived at is "I need you to control everything. OK then I will."

What I don't agree on is the gift analogy. It's a very popular one, but I don't see it as a one way street. I put time effort sweat and tears into my relationship too, I do a LOT of work to make sure that we stay on track, and doing so is usually not a picnic. The number one reason I hear as to "why I could never be a Dom/me" is "because it's so much work, it's so hard." To be a Dominant in a relationship is to be in love with hard work, AND, in a way, with service. You are forced to think collectively at every step. If my sub must think first of Miss, I must think first of "we."

A D/s relationship is a collaboration, it's a relationship. It's not a gift, it's an endeavor, it's something that keeps growing and changing and moving in directions that neither party can guess at.

 

[Pure]

Hi Sweet H,

Those are well stated thoughts.

I don't agree with the 'gift' analogy, however, though I like the concept 'sensation hound.' To me, however, it indicates that the interaction is in the nature of a shared fetish, Vera's 'kinky sensualism.' The 'hound' who finds a person willing to provide is indeed lucky and is arguably in control-- there's no reason at all, imo, to call that hound a 'sub', except in "..".

One 'hound' likes whipping, another to be fucked in the ass. They find a person who for 'exchange value' (money or similar reciprocation) will do it, and a kinky 'contract' is born. The one more difficult to replace, if s/he knows it, is in control (e.g., many a beautiful, female self-said 'sub').

Sweet H, do you really see 'power' or 'control' being exercised in the hot kinky relationship you conceive? by whom?

 

[Desdemona]

Whenever anyone starts talking about gifts in terms of D/s relationships, I always think that it is most truly an exchange of gifts. As Netzach said, being a Dom/me is hard hard work.


Personally, I think that Snooze gives me far more than I can ever hope to return. He puts an incredible amount of effort into O/our relationship on a variety of levels. Yes, I give Him the gift of my submission, but I also receive the great gift of His dominance (among other things).

 

[SweetHoney]

Hi Sweet H,

Those are well stated thoughts.

I don't agree with the 'gift' analogy, however, though I like the concept 'sensation hound.' To me, however, it indicates that the interaction is in the nature of a shared fetish, Vera's 'kinky sensualism.' The 'hound' who finds a person willing to provide is indeed lucky and is arguably in control-- there's no reason at all, imo, to call that hound a 'sub', except in "..".

One 'hound' likes whipping, another to be fucked in the ass. They find a person who for 'exchange value' (money or similar reciprocation) will do it, and a kinky 'contract' is born. The one more difficult to replace, if s/he knows it, is in control (e.g., many a beautiful, female self-said 'sub').

Sweet H, do you really see 'power' or 'control' being exercised in the hot kinky relationship you conceive? by whom?

first the hound was the best word i could come up with.. and honestly if you are not into caneing and large amounts of pain then the person is into sensations.. sensation of being controlled.. humiliated... forced.. small amounts of pian.. pleasures given.. and so forth.. with each thing and act there are sinsations...

as to your question... you lost me.. sorry ..

and sorry if i ticked anyone off with my outlook

 

[Etoile]

I don't usually consider the submission a gift, though at times I consider myself a gift. Sometimes, in a very real sense, I am giving a part of me to my Daddy. I also see it as very much a two-way street...I'm definitely getting something I want when I'm being dominated and controlled.

 

[Pure]

Hi Sweet H.

//as to your question... you lost me.. sorry ..

and sorry if i ticked anyone off with my outlook//


Hey, no one's ticked off. I liked your statement, hounddog. Someone of us are a wee bit argumentative, at least in the eyes of certain others.

My question, for the sake of friendly discussion was. Suppose someone's a 'sensation hound' and likes pvc clothing on the partner during sex, and she or he finds a partner similarly inclined or whose willing to trade (I'll do pvc today if you do leather tomorrow). They're a kinky couple getting off in an agreed way. There's no reason to say anyone is 'in control' or 'exercising power' or dominating or submitting.

Now, in your case, the sensation hound (first person), likes, say, to be whipped, and finds a whipper(second), and, as above, both are happy.

If the first likes whipping more than the second, they (as above) can trade off (whipping one day, public exposure [dear to the second's heart] the next).

As above, is there any reason to say this 'hound', the first person, is 'submitting'. Or that the second, the whipper is 'dominant' or exercizing 'control'? Why not say they're both getting off on their kink and leave it at that.?

Is that clearer, Sweet H.?

It's good that you've joined in. Think of a question as like a 'whack'. You wouldn't be whacked if we didn't love you! (And Netzach, take note) And if it weren't necessary in the scheme of things.

 

[SweetHoney]

Ok to answer youre question.. yes i think in what you are discribeing its kink and good kink at that.. without the force.. but ok is the force the ONLY thing that makes it BDSM? (lol i wanted to be funny and say the ropes) I mean once again with the Force you get the sinsations.. helplessness.. no longer in control.. and in my case utter abandon...

For me .. the control issue plays a big part.. All day.. all week .. im in control.. i take care of everyone.. i do what has to be done.. im the strong one.. in the bed room i dont want that at all.. its not all about a whack to get me off.. hmm i dunno.. maybe im JUST kinky.. i dont think so though.. its a great need and desire.. not jsut someting to "get me off"... though in the end thats the end product..

And thank you for the whack ...

 

[lark sparrow]

Observations by me and thoughts.. you can discuss or through this out the window..

Some one on here once said in a very astute post that "submission is a gift to the Dom"

I don't use the gift analogy personally... although it's a sweet thought, romantic way to phrase it, and fits well for others, it's never struck me, on a personal level, as a particularly deep or insightful analysis of the totality of a BDSM relationship.

This statement i think is very to the point.. and brought to mind other things said and then alot of thought

I really think in order for the Dom to control the sub must control also. The sub in order to give the gift controls the situation.. the sub controls the depth things gets to... lol its such a give and take ordeal.. i know my statement will get alot of guff from doms.. and probably get me a couple online swats.. but if you think about it.. its a give and take on both the dom and subs control..

Give and take I absolutely agree with, and shared control to a degree. It's true that Mistress cannot force me do anything without breaking the law, so ultimately I am in control of my surrender. I think this especially true in the beginning of a relationship or in a casual play relationship, Sweet Honey. And even though things are always growing and changing, one of the things I have been struck by recently is how very little I question Mistress anymore in some ways. It becomes a very automatic response to obey through time and trust, and frankly sometimes I find it a little scary - not now at this level, 2 years into the relationship, but say 5 years down the line. Not because She would hurt, misuse, or maliciously take advantage of me, but because I wonder how deeply that automatic response will affect me and the rest of my life. Control of yourself gets kind of subjective at that point, because faith and training overrides reason. I think this happens to a degree in all relationships, but D/s relationships really focus on this aspect. The more I surrender and obey without question, the more responsibility and thought She must accept - everyone has to find their own comfort and need levels in this exchange.

I'm going to give a really silly, tiny example: Mistress and I were playing a yahoo game. I got booted, I came back in and saw She had typed out "no, go away." So, I did - I clicked out of the room immediately and waited for further instruction in PM. As it turned out someone had come into the room trying to take my seat, and had clicked out of the room just before I came in, and She was talking to them, but I couldn't see them or anything that had transpired before I entered. She asked me, laughing "Did you really think I would tell you to go away?"

No, it didn't enter my mind for a moment that She was telling me to go away because She didn't want me, but I assumed She must have a good reason even though it wasn't obvious to me and I just obeyed. Once I realized what had gone on before it all made sense and of course I shouldn't have gone, but my first response was to immediately obey first, wait for explanation or question later, even in a little light entertainment of a yahoo game, wherein there was no obvious power exchange at all - this was not a "scene" or play.

I think in all my reading in here im a sinsation houd and NOT by any means a pain slut.. In reading i think many of the subs in here are like me.. in wanting/needing the stimulation of a spanking.. a feather duster, a tweek and nip and tease..then again i could be wrong.. but in reading on the most part i see this here.

I do enjoy pain, and Mistress wants a pain slut because She gets pleasure from inflicting erotic pain... but the truth is that sometimes I don't feel like a pain slut, and She will draw it out of me, push and extend it because She wants it. Do I enjoy it? Absolutely! But that doesn't cancel out the power exchange, and anyone actually in a D/s relationship wherein this is shared can feel it and knows it. It doesn't have to fit any theories or hypotheticals - it's part of the "magic" of existing in a landscape filled with paradox. If one can't handle that, they will probably get stuck in the mire, and miss out on all the good stuff. But then again, my theory is that I only have to figure it out for me as an individual, and I have a right to define myself... and everyone else gets to do the same.

Ive also come to realize why there must be and is trust and love in this.. and in high amounts.. This is not abuse.. like i said too many sinsation hounds out there.. this is giveing the ultimate in pleasure.. this is loveing someone so much that you recieve pleasure in meeting thier needs AND in doing what you do best..how could something as intimate as bearing your soul to another be abuseive??

OK these were my observations and things i so wanted to write and share.. for anyone listening..

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[InnerDarkness]

Re: Re: My thoughts on BDSM

No, it didn't enter my mind for a moment that She was telling me to go away because She didn't want me, but I assumed She must have a good reason even though it wasn't obvious to me and I just obeyed. Once I realized what had gone on before it all made sense and of course I shouldn't have gone, but my first response was to immediately obey first, wait for explanation or question later, even in a little light entertainment of a yahoo game, wherein there was no obvious power exchange at all - this was not a "scene" or play.

I am not sure if this is the best place for me to jump in and ask this question....so sorry if it isn't.

I was intrigued by what you wrote....you acted simply because she said so...you didn't question it...you just obeyed.

My desires seem to maybe be somewhat different than other subs I am guessing, because while i crave the thrill from being controlled...and I long to be dominated...part of my pleasure comes from my resistance. So, while I may have acted the same way in that exact instance....in a different scenario, say in the bedroom....I would have resisted much more, rather than obeying, because it is the act of being conquered that is the thrill for me....not necessarily the act of obeying.

Does this make sense?

And if it does...does this mean i am not a true "submissive" if there is such a thing? I feel sily asking this, but I am so completely new to BDSM, that I have to ask someone!! LOL

 

[lark sparrow]

Re: Re: Re: My thoughts on BDSM

I am not sure if this is the best place for me to jump in and ask this question....so sorry if it isn't.

I was intrigued by what you wrote....you acted simply because she said so...you didn't question it...you just obeyed.

My desires seem to maybe be somewhat different than other subs I am guessing, because while i crave the thrill from being controlled...and I long to be dominated...part of my pleasure comes from my resistance. So, while I may have acted the same way in that exact instance....in a different scenario, say in the bedroom....I would have resisted much more, rather than obeying, because it is the act of being conquered that is the thrill for me....not necessarily the act of obeying.

Does this make sense?

And if it does...does this mean i am not a true "submissive" if there is such a thing? I feel sily asking this, but I am so completely new to BDSM, that I have to ask someone!! LOL

Well, this is from someone who questions alot at times, so take it within that context. To be honest, I hadn't really put either a "good" or "bad" label on that experience, and wasn't sure if it was one of the things She, I or a collective we are working towards or not.... more of an interesting oddity or unexpected side effect.

What you say does make sense, and I know there are other people who appreciate that dynamic as well. There are way too many philosophies, activities and intensity levels grouped under the term BDSM to worry about "true" anything, other than what feels right and true for you as you explore, Imo.