My Father, My Friend

[interracial_sex]

My Father, My Friend

Fortunate son of a misfortunate father
his world paid him no mind, they would not bother
Choking on lies the more he would trust
his youth passed away like wind carried dust

Worked like a dog, his fingers to the bone
yet not one piece of the dream was ever his own
A wife and a son, a family to protect
but for all of his efforts he was paid with neglect

A solitary man with purpose and pride
he was honest and true, direct in his stride
Gentle and kind though not without fault
his son was a bastard, the curse of his salt

Still he prevailed, refusing to fall
steady as a rock, hard through it all
His pain was not shown, that wasn't his way
yet pain was the sun that lighted his day

He loved his child and his boy loved him too
but they lead separate lives, to each they were true
One carried the cross, the other great thirst
slaves to their spirits yet which was the worst

Not eye to eye nor seldom agreed
love was what suffered and the woman did bleed
Forgiveness conditional and neither would bend
great was the loss of my father, my friend

 

[TheRainMan]

just curious, since i read your opinion on critiquing.

i assume you are posting these simply to be read, or do you want feedback?

 

[Guest]

just curious, since i read your opinion on critiquing.

i assume you are posting these simply to be read, or do you want feedback?

Beat me to it. I had just written the same post.

Thanks for the PM, BTW.

 

[TheRainMan]

Beat me to it. I had just written the same post.

Thanks for the PM, BTW.

great minds and all.

welcome . . . i meant it.

 

[interracial_sex]

Offering them to be read but feel free to make any comments you wish. Good, bad or indifferent, I'll take all in stride and the spirit in which they're intended.

 

[WickedEve]

just curious, since i read your opinion on critiquing.

i assume you are posting these simply to be read, or do you want feedback?

I'm curious about what you think of this poem. Look forward to reading your comments.

i_sex, is this poem, um, let me think... in your book? Don't you have a book? A poetry book? I think I read that somewhere, but I'm so forgetful.

 

[TheRainMan]

I'm curious about what you think of this poem. Look forward to reading your comments.

uh huh . . . you wench.

i thought you might like to go first, Eviepoo.

 

[*Catbabe*]

I will start off by saying that you are very brave to offer such a personal poem for public consumption. I can sense that your poem stems from great emotion and human connection. If your emotions are deeply connected to your writing, I would suggest you ignore the rest of my words.

However, if you can separate how you feel and how you feel about your words, I have some suggestions for improvement. They are only suggestions and I offer them in the hopes of one day being able to see the man in your poem more clearly. I think the main issue I have with your poem could easily be improved by focusing on choosing your own words.

Because you have often chosen cliché expressions to tell the reader about this relationship and specifically the father, the end result is that he is not someone we feel we see or know at all and therefore we cannot share your loss as much as we would like to.

I think when your write about things that are deeply personal, it is imperative that you do not ‘borrow’ words from thousands of others, otherwise you end up writing a very general poem about a special unique and special person.

My Father, My Friend

Fortunate son of a misfortunate father
his world paid him no mind, they would not bother
Choking on lies the more he would trust
his youth passed away like wind carried dust

-I think your poem would be better served by defining what you mean by fortunate and unfortunate. When words are big and general they do not create an image for the reader.
-choking on lies is a bit of a cliché and so is anything being carried away on the wind

Worked like a dog, his fingers to the bone
yet not one piece of the dream was ever his own
A wife and a son, a family to protect
but for all of his efforts he was paid with neglect

-worked like a dog is also a cliché and so is fingers to the bone

A solitary man with purpose and pride
he was honest and true, direct in his stride
Gentle and kind though not without fault
his son was a bastard, the curse of his salt

Still he prevailed, refusing to fall
steady as a rock, hard through it all
His pain was not shown, that wasn't his way
yet pain was the sun that lighted his day

-I am confused here as to how pain could light someone’s day

He loved his child and his boy loved him too
but they lead separate lives, to each they were true
One carried the cross, the other great thirst
slaves to their spirits yet which was the worst
-carrying a cross is a cliche

Not eye to eye nor seldom agreed
love was what suffered and the woman did bleed
Forgiveness conditional and neither would bend
great was the loss of my father, my friend

-not seeing eye to eye is a cliché and so is the idea of love ‘suffering’

 

[TheRainMan]

I too want to cite your courage for sharing a work so personal.

And I echo also what Catbabe offered about the poem - it is not possible for me as a reader to know or feel the person you speak of because the poem is written in such generic terms.

If you wish a stranger (which other readers all are when you share poetry) to experience the uniqueness of a person or situation as you did, to really know them or it closely, then you must offer words that are fresh and new, not ones that have been seen so often before -- otherwise there is nothing to separate the person, the situation, from thousands of others.

This poem offers nothing fresh and new to me, and after reading it, I know and feel nothing of the man.

I have some specific suggestions.

Drop rhyme when you write. Totally. Rhyming poetry is best left to experts. When you become an expert, it will read better than you write it now.

Stop trying to be poetic. It doesn't work.

This is a good place to read quality poetry. So are many others, but you are here now. And we all wish you to stay.

Read poetry. Lots. Here, or elsewhere . . .

If you see rhymes, or words that look familiar or sound flowery, stop reading and move to the next poem.

Your words indicate you are a good reader. Read, and read, and read poetry.

 

[interracial_sex]

I appreciate your suggestions and I can see your points. I hope I will not come across as defensive in my reply, as I don't feel the need to be so since I felt all the comments were offered in a constructive way. However, my ambition of this poem was not necessarily to have readers know my father but more so to express my own frustrations about our relationship and to vent pent up emotions. I am selfish in that I don't wish to share my Dad-I prefer to keep him privately for me, yet I did want to share "pieces."

As far as the suggestion to not write rhyme scheme poetry, that is not an option. I have written 1,687 poems and I'd guess that 95% are rhyme scheme. I have always taken exception to poetry critics who have dismissed rhyme scheme poetry as not intellectually viable material and who ridicule it as sing-song. I even enjoy reading rhyme scheme more than free verse as I think free verse poets often try too hard to appear intellectual. They sometimes come across as "high falluting" and do not need to try to be so "deep" because they are often not and a more easily made point gets lost in the verbage. I consider myself a modern lyricist rather than true poet and, while not an expert, I do believe I'm adroit at the style. Enough so that I have won a few awards and been published.

Still, I will take the suggestions to heart and aspire to get better as that is always the goal. And I do need to concentrate on the use of cliched phrases as that is a criticism I've heard before. Thanks for taking the time to offer your suggestions as that shows an interest in both the poet and the work and I appreciate that.

 

[TheRainMan]

. . . I have written 1,687 poems . . .

again, out of curiosity --

what sort of tally mechanism do you use?

. . . and will it assist me with the years of pennies i now have accumulated in a 55 gallon drum in my garage?

 

[interracial_sex]

Quite easily numbered when they are saved to disc and done so 1 through 1,687.

 

[WickedEve]

i_sex, you may be interested in reading this poem about a father.
http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=240252

Thanks for sharing your poem, and thanks rainman for your comments. I always learn something reading them.

 

[interracial_sex]

I read it. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Angeline]

Hello, I_S and if I haven't said so already, welcome to the poetry forum.

I found your comment that you want to share only pieces of your father and keep most of it private interesting because your poem does just that: it tells the story of a complicated relationship that affected more people than the son and the father. For me though, it's ultimately an unsatisfying poem because there are few details and no specific images. It's too general to offer more than tantalizing pieces of a "real story" in the subtext of your poem, and these belie its simple structure and rhyme scheme.

I know you prefer writing this way and that's fine because really the poem needs to satisfy the writer first and foremost. As a reader though, I feel the seriousness of your theme is lost within the light-hearted structure in which you've chosen to present it.

Look at this poem on a similar theme by Yousef Komunyakaa.

My Father's Love Letters

On Fridays he'd open a can of Jax
After coming home from the mill,
& ask me to write a letter to my mother
Who sent postcards of desert flowers
Taller than men. He would beg,
Promising to never beat her
Again. Somehow I was happy
She had gone, & sometimes wanted
To slip in a reminder, how Mary Lou
Williams' "Polka Dots & Moonbeams"
Never made the swelling go down.
His carpenter's apron always bulged
With old nails, a claw hammer
Looped at his side & extension cords
Coiled around his feet.
Words rolled from under the pressure
Of my ballpoint: Love,
Baby, Honey, Please.
We sat in the quiet brutality
Of voltage meters & pipe threaders,
Lost between sentences . . .
The gleam of a five-pound wedge
On the concrete floor
Pulled a sunset
Through the doorway of his toolshed.
I wondered if she laughed
& held them over a gas burner.
My father could only sign
His name, but he'd look at blueprints
& say how many bricks
Formed each wall. This man,
Who stole roses & hyacinth
For his yard, would stand there
With eyes closed & fists balled,
Laboring over a simple word, almost
Redeemed by what he tried to say.

Yes it is free verse, but it uses specific images to create a very clear picture of the narrator's father, the brutality with which he expressed love and his son's complicated reaction to it--the son both understands/loves and despises his father for it. It tells a specific story. It gives me, as a reader, a lot more by suggestion than outright telling. To me, it is much more moving than a poem that buries its story in a structure that keeps it at arm's length from the reader.

I think most people love poems because it is possible to connect with them (and thus the poets who write them) in a way that is at once universal and intimate. I can't do that with your poem because there isn't enough specificity there for me to grab onto.

I admit that I am not a fan of rhymed verse though I write it sometimes, and I know there are poems that do it very well. I'm afraid you won't find many fans of it here, but you will find others who love poetry--that is something we all have in common.

I say all this respectfully and simply to share my view with you. I hope you'll continue to share your poems and maybe find some that make me appreciate rhymed verse, eh?


Angeline

 

[Guest]

I agree with Angeline.

interracial_sex,

When I started writing poetry, everything I wrote was rhyme/meter. It took hours writing these poems because I was very strict with having consistent meter throughout the poem. Every stanza had to be the same counts as the one before it. I always found when I started a line with a longer word, it interrupted the flow. Maybe that was just me, I don't know.

Reading your poem, I feel I'm being left out too much. Thinker poems can be fun but there just seems so much more that needs to be told here. I want to feel the love and forgiveness - more about the pain and two separate lives. There was a woman at the end of the poem - you used the word bleed. I wasn't with you there. In the beginning of the poem, there was a wife and a son, so this confused me when I read bastard.

I know there are a lot of us here on Lit that are free verse writers. This is where I learned. I just read and read and read. I would love for you to have a thought, something that makes you just wanna write immediately, and wing your thoughts out in the Passion thread. Check out the link sometime. You don't have to worry about anything there. No one give crits. I think it's awesome. You can then take what you wrote later on, and work on it if you feel it's worth it. I do this quite often. It doesn't matter how long it is - you can always trim later. I'm not pushing free verse on you, so I don't want you to think that. I just think you'd be able to write more freely and get more out of your system.

I share one of mine. It's not perfect but this is one of mine that got published.

copyright saldne

Thank you, daddy
for sparkling blue eyes,
my smile that everyone loves
while I question
where my full lips came from,
although they're admired by some,
but you know it's impossible
to gives thanks for road rage,
impatience, and anger,
fear and erratic behavior
'cause you wanted to plunge mommy
not wanting a baby then leaving,
and now I have to exist
living in madness until God
scratches me off his list,
and I sit and wonder why
you two didn't think about
using a coat hanger.

I know it's raw. I'm going to go find my rainbow poem.

Edit: Damn, I have no time. I wanted to find it and share it with you. I have a date and I am late! He ha ho - I'm rhymed! ~~~Runs to shower~~~

 

[interracial_sex]

Thank you, Angeline, and Saldne, for your comments and suggestions and for posting the poems that you did.

While I realize that I won't find a large contingency of rhyme-scheme fans here, I still remain committed to the style. As I stated in the foreward of my book, one of my goals is endeavoring to change the perception of this style. I believe, wholeheartedly, that rhyme-scheme is equally viable, if not more so, than free verse. I stated my reasons (and criticisms) for disliking the free verse style and I stand behind them. I have two goals when writing poetry. One is simplicity and the other is to stir the imagination. I don't want to present an entire story to the reader; I want to give just enough so that the reader evokes their own imagination and finishes the story or infers their own reality for a character.

In the case of the poem about my Dad, I laid a groundwork of his charcater, depicting him as an honorable man who was tough and had circumstances in his life that weren't always easy or positive. I leave it up to the reader to take what I provided and form an idea of him. Perhaps I didn't give enough to make forming such a picture easy but I believe that someone who reads it can take the essential fabric of who and what he was and fill in the blanks according to their own interpretation. That is, more often than not, what I strive to do when writing. I don't want to give details and a story--I want to give pieces and let readers develop the rest of the story through their own imaginations.

 

[TheRainMan]

. . . I have two goals when writing poetry. One is simplicity and the other is to stir the imagination . . .

On this thread you have 4 good readers/good writers telling you your poem did not do that for them (and another, WickedEve, telling you the same thing, by implication). That should probably mean something to you, no? I know it would sure mean something to me.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the information, as you seem to be doing . . . that's just me, though.

I know I take every word of constructive criticism given to me seriously, no matter what it says or who says it, or how deeply it cuts against my own opinions.

My last suggestion is that you do the same.

 

[Guest]

I've read this thread and I'm wondering what was the point? Show and tell? Surely not for constructive criticisms since interracial_sex has dismissed ideas that might improve his My Father, My Friend.

 

[Guest]

deleted

 

[interracial_sex]

If you had noticed the entirety of my post(s), I said that I would bear all comments and suggestions in mind. I will decide whether to implement them or not. Basically, only a few suggestions were made; that I attempt or change to free verse, avoid cliches and be more descriptive of my father. The first suggestion regarding free verse will be one I disregard as I do not enjoy that style-reading it or writing it. The second, avoiding cliches, is one I said I would work on. The last.....well I explained my stance on that issue. A poet ultimately writes for his or her own satisfaction. I am both satisfied and secure in my writing. Nothing here is gospel, it is merely opinion. I'm sure all who have offered comments and/or suggestions are good writers but I am as well and there is an audience and readership for all of us.

 

[*Catbabe*]

Good luck interracial_sex and please let us know how book sales go.

 

[interracial_sex]

Thank you, Catbabe. Presently sales are rather good. Obviously poetry doesn't command a great commercial market and it will never be a best-seller but I am pleased with the results thus far.

 

[Angeline]

If you had noticed the entirety of my post(s), I said that I would bear all comments and suggestions in mind. I will decide whether to implement them or not. Basically, only a few suggestions were made; that I attempt or change to free verse, avoid cliches and be more descriptive of my father. The first suggestion regarding free verse will be one I disregard as I do not enjoy that style-reading it or writing it. The second, avoiding cliches, is one I said I would work on. The last.....well I explained my stance on that issue. A poet ultimately writes for his or her own satisfaction. I am both satisfied and secure in my writing. Nothing here is gospel, it is merely opinion. I'm sure all who have offered comments and/or suggestions are good writers but I am as well and their is an audience and readership for all of us.

I'm not suprised you got the reaction you did--as I mentioned before, most people in this forum favor free-verse poetry. I'm sure--given the current popularity of free verse--you've encountered this before.

I do think you write well--for what my opinion is worth. I preferred a few of the other poems you posted to this one though. Maybe that's because they seemed more suited to the form to me.

Do you write lyrics? It struck me that some of your poems would work really well with music.

I also wonder--since you like rhymed verse--if you ever write in any of the traditional rhymed forms like sonnets and villanelles and such?

 

[interracial_sex]

I'm not at all surprised to learn that the majority of people here prefer the free-verse style of poetry. Every site is different. I belong to many yahoo writing/poetry groups where the opposite is true; members prefer rhyme-scheme to free verse. There is a large fan base of both styles. Diversity and differing tastes are good things. And I dabble in several types of rhyme-scheme but the bulk of my work is concentrated in the style of "The Cure," which I posted in another thread.