Music, Lyrics, Vocals

[Madame Pandora]

I guess a good song is all of these. Music, Lyrics, Vocals.

But, of the people I know, we have an ongoing debate over which is more important. (It is actually one of those fun little bouts of bickering you have with friends that never ends, but goes round and round for years - like who was the greatest QB/shortstop/pitcher of all time, etc...)

For me, it is ALWAYS lyrics first. ALWAYS. Then, music, then vocals.

In this vein, I can honestly say that I have NEVER recovered from seeing Soul Coughing live. The lyrics are poetry, the vocals of M. Doughty are sensual and hypnotic and consuming - and the music...well...the music just owned me.

They stood no chance of making this so called "Top List" of the Century, but there is one song that has been absolutely haunting me since I first heard it months ago.

RISING SIGN (By M Doughty)

your back curves like a creeping vine
with the answers in the fluid in the stem of the
spine
in the black-coffee bowl of your eye
why do you overestimate the size of the lie?

i’ve seen
the dangers of
your rising sign
but i swear
i’d like
to drink the fuel straight from your lighter
it’s all inside the wrist, it’s
all inside the way you time it
i resent the way you make me like myself

my nerves jump
like a boiling pan
like a skillet full of oil spits,
rattling on the burner
when i stumble onto the thought
of the match you lit and dropped and set the
dial to slow yearn

can i spell it out?
should i spell it out?

It has it all....LYRICS...MUSIC...VOCALS.

It's my "perfect song." Not my favorite song...but just...perfect.

it’s all inside the wrist

*sigh* Yes it is.

Lyrics...then music...then vocals. What's your order?

MP

 

[Graymouse]

I guess I agree with you, although I think all are important. I hate monotonous, unimaginative music almost as much as I hate cliched lyrics, and there are some peoples' voices I just can't stomach. Still, I think lyrics are the most critical. I think a good song has lyrics that sound just as good written as layered over music. If you have that, even a mediocre voice sounds good. Also, I have to in some way relate to the lyrics for it to constitute a GREAT song.

all right, so I'll share a song I like . . . feel free to think whatever you want.

Modest Mouse ~ "Trailer Trash"

Eating snowflakes with plastic forks,
And a paper plate of course,
You think of everything.
Short love and a long divorce,
And a couple of kids of course,
They don't mean anything.
Live in trailers with no class,
Goddamn I hope I can pass
High school means nothing.
Takin' heartache with hard work
Goddamn I am such a jerk,
I can't do anything.

And I shout that you're all fake
And you should've seen the look on your face
And I guess that's what it takes
When comparin' your bellyaches
And it's been a long time
Which agrees with this watch of mine
And I guess that I miss you
And I'm sorry if I dissed you.

 

[Purple Haze]

Good Lyrics? They rhyme. I can't put them first because I probably have a harder time understanding them than other people. Remember that song by Credence Clearwater Revival, "Don't go around tonight, they'll be bound to take your life, there in the bathroom on the right" or Deep Purple "Sloooooow motion Walter, the fire engine guy" I like these songs.

For real, there are a lot of artists I dig that are very hard to understand. Mick Jagger, Elton John, Peter Frampton, (geez, they're all British) but their music is good and they sing well,so I like the song. Anybody know the lyrics to "Brown Sugar"? I don't care that much. It grooves anyway.

I guess it depends mostly on what kind of music you like. Music that has really good lyrics, groove and singing are rare, or maybe I don't get out enough. I'll settle for two of the three.

The Beatles were such good singers that you had to listen to the lyrics, and they were good lyrics, and you could understand them without having to read them. They could play too.

I'll take bad lyrics before bad music anyday, but I can't take bad singing. But if you're a bad singer, they'll call you a great poet.

Or a rap artist.

 

[Xander]

You know. To me it's the WHOLE of any song.
It's all the parts of the music, working together, making the whole be greater than the pieces.

One cant work well without the other. And I cannot, for the world of it. Point out what is better, than the other.

Maybe it's just the composer bone in me. But when I listen to a piece of music. Any music for that matter.
Does the music, underline the atmosphere and meaning of the lyrics.
Does the vocals, bring the two other pieces together. And give it the final touch.
Does it all together, give me the feel, meaning and atmosphere of the song.

That kind of stuff. One cannot work without the other. And it takes the whole to make it the great song.

 

[Dillinger]

The whole song... I can go along with that but...

If I had to break it down.

Music - Vocals - Lyrics.

There is no song without music. Period. If the lyrics are great maybe you've got a poem - doesn't need music.

But... you can have a great song and its an instrumental - no lyrics no vocals.

You can have an a capella song - all vocals and lyrics. No instruments BUT the voices are the instruments and provide the melody and harmony.

Say a song has horrible music and off key singing? Would great lyrics still make it a good song?

You can have music and vocals and no lyrics (just voice sounds, no words) and its still a song.

What you can't have is just lyrics. Its not a song.

 

[Nobody Special]

I guess a good song is all of these. Music, Lyrics, Vocals.

But, of the people I know, we have an ongoing debate over which is more important. (It is actually one of those fun little bouts of bickering you have with friends that never ends, but goes round and round for years - like who was the greatest QB/shortstop/pitcher of all time, etc...)

For me, it is ALWAYS lyrics first. ALWAYS. Then, music, then vocals.

In this vein, I can honestly say that I have NEVER recovered from seeing Soul Coughing live. The lyrics are poetry, the vocals of M. Doughty are sensual and hypnotic and consuming - and the music...well...the music just owned me.

They stood no chance of making this so called "Top List" of the Century, but there is one song that has been absolutely haunting me since I first heard it months ago.

RISING SIGN (By M Doughty)

your back curves like a creeping vine
with the answers in the fluid in the stem of the
spine
in the black-coffee bowl of your eye
why do you overestimate the size of the lie?

i’ve seen
the dangers of
your rising sign
but i swear
i’d like
to drink the fuel straight from your lighter
it’s all inside the wrist, it’s
all inside the way you time it
i resent the way you make me like myself

my nerves jump
like a boiling pan
like a skillet full of oil spits,
rattling on the burner
when i stumble onto the thought
of the match you lit and dropped and set the
dial to slow yearn

can i spell it out?
should i spell it out?

It has it all....LYRICS...MUSIC...VOCALS.

It's my "perfect song." Not my favorite song...but just...perfect.

it’s all inside the wrist

*sigh* Yes it is.

Lyrics...then music...then vocals. What's your order?

MP

Well it depends on what the Musician is trying to say.. YOu can have a great song with out lyrics. but if all the parts are not there then there is now way to have a great song with out a balance.. the Balance is the trick.. if you have everything balanced then you will have more then waht you can do with..

E

 

[Jade]

Totally depends...

I am all about lyrics myself...they are sooo intrigal in my own stuff.

As far as first impressions, it depends on whether or not I am paying close attention.

If I am just driving around and something cool comes on the radio, I generally notice the tune first, the lyrics to the CHORUS secondly and then the vocals...

But I think the best lyrics are the ones that read like poetry/prose... the kind that you can repeat over and over again and apply them to circumstances in life.
Lyrics that relate to human emotion on another scale, a different level.

I am a huge fan of U2 for that reason... they take the experience beyond love/hate, sad/happy.
Their music incorporates ultimate grief and bitterness, utter and total lonliness, damn just damn, they kick ass.

 

[Mark Singer]

I couldn't agree more, Jade. The lyric...the essence... the poetry... has to be the primary. Music is about expression and release and sharing. I can understand where someone might first enjoy a song because of the rhythm or the progression or the musical structure. But ultimately, the value lies within the thoughts expressed. Through the lyrics. Being a songwriter, I know how important and difficult it is to express ones soul within a song.
There have been a few humans who have been able to express purely instrumentally. Dizzy is one, Coletrane and Benny Goodman, and Stevie Ray Vaughn...Eddie VanHalen in his good years...and a list of others... God bless 'em all.

But the music that really makes me laugh and weep and think... are the lyricists that can take me, with their picturesque talents, to the places that I need to go to.

Ohmygod I'm getting personal... Don't tell ANYBODY I said that!


-M-

 

[Jade]

Being a songwriter, I know how important and difficult it is to express ones soul within a song.

But the music that really makes me laugh and weep and think... are the lyricists that can take me, with their picturesque talents, to the places that I need to go to.

Ohmygod I'm getting personal... Don't tell ANYBODY I said that!


-M-

I agree about the instrumentalists.

And what kind of music do you write and what format do you write in? What order?

I have these books and when I feel inspired I sometimes just write down lyrics, just the lyrics and go back and put music in sometimes months later!

Other times, I hear the song in my head WITH the lyrics... those are my best songs I think, those come completely from within, I mean it all does but not like those... does that make any sense or am I coming from the tower of babble?

And don't worry... I won't tell... your secrets are safe with me!