Motivations

[impressive]

This morning, I was exchanging e-mails with a friend. We were discussing how people base their decisions on fear, and out of nowhere I asked:

Do you ever wonder what the world would be like if what primarily drove our actions was love instead of fear?

That little question has been nagging at me all day long. I feel like there's a big "Ah ha!" in there somewhere that's dancing just out of my reach, and I get the feeling it's related somehow to D/s relationships in a complete surrender kinda way. (I'm not making ANY sense, am I?)

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Maybe you can spark my "Ah ha!" (and inspire a story).

 

[Guest]

This morning, I was exchanging e-mails with a friend. We were discussing how people base their decisions on fear, and out of nowhere I asked:



That little question has been nagging at me all day long. I feel like there's a big "Ah ha!" in there somewhere that's dancing just out of my reach, and I get the feeling it's related somehow to D/s relationships in a complete surrender kinda way. (I'm not making ANY sense, am I?)

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Maybe you can spark my "Ah ha!" (and inspire a story).

ohboy... this is, indeed a deep topic.
ill give cliff notes on how i feel for now and tomorrow, when im clear headed ill expound, if you want.

complete surrender for a sub (a sub being myself as i cant speak for everyone of them)
is the giving over of power...
ok, people might balk at this but its really to do with trust and faith. if i didnt love completly i wouldnt be able to trust thoroughly.
the two intermingle and in my opinion can not be separated.
yep, im going overboard... but do you see where im going with this?
i follow my heart because ive fallen in love...because ive fallen in love i am able to trust thoroughly and there for i know for certain that whatever happens, no true damage will be done to me by my domme.
this is turning out to be a bit muddled.. i think ill save a good responce for tomorrow.
awesome thread imp~

 

[rgraham666]

I don't think humans are motivated primarily by fear. I think they are motivated primarily by want.

And to completely lose myself in someone else? Shudder. Me has generally been the only thing I've had, and if I lose me, I lose everything.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I don't think humans are motivated primarily by fear. I think they are motivated primarily by want.

And to completely lose myself in someone else? Shudder. Me has generally been the only thing I've had, and if I lose me, I lose everything.

I feel that way too, but I have a long history of keeping my lovers at arms' length, leading to the breakup of relationships. Would i like to find someone I could submit to totally? Well, of course, but if that person it out there he's probably busy healing sick babies by day and fighting crime at night or something.

 

[impressive]

I feel that way too, but I have a long history of keeping my lovers at arms' length, leading to the breakup of relationships.

Me, too. It's a shield. Self-preservation (a/k/a fear). However, it's also reciprocal. I don't think I've ever known anyone who's truly (I mean, REALLY) opened up to me, either.

 

[impressive]

Re: Re: Motivations

ohboy... this is, indeed a deep topic.
ill give cliff notes on how i feel for now and tomorrow, when im clear headed ill expound, if you want.

complete surrender for a sub (a sub being myself as i cant speak for everyone of them)
is the giving over of power...
ok, people might balk at this but its really to do with trust and faith. if i didnt love completly i wouldnt be able to trust thoroughly.
the two intermingle and in my opinion can not be separated.
yep, im going overboard... but do you see where im going with this?
i follow my heart because ive fallen in love...because ive fallen in love i am able to trust thoroughly and there for i know for certain that whatever happens, no true damage will be done to me by my domme.
this is turning out to be a bit muddled.. i think ill save a good responce for tomorrow.
awesome thread imp~

Good start, dear. I look forward to more.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Orignally posted by carsonsheperd
I feel that way too, but I have a long history of keeping my lovers at arms' length, leading to the breakup of relationships. Would i like to find someone I could submit to totally? Well, of course, but if that person it out there he's probably busy healing sick babies by day and fighting crime at night or something.

Me, too. It's a shield. Self-preservation (a/k/a fear). However, it's also reciprocal. I don't think I've ever known anyone who's truly (I mean, REALLY) opened up to me, either.

I've always done this too.

Even though the thing I desire most is to open up like that, I can't do it. I think I need to know that the person I'm opening up to is also opening to me. If I question it or am uncertain, the walls go up and stay up.

Edited to add: Also, the need for reciprocal acceptance plays a part, too.

 

[TheEarl]

I've always done this too.

Even though the thing I desire most is to open up like that, I can't do it. I think I need to know that the person I'm opening up to is also opening to me. If I question it or am uncertain, the walls go up and stay up.

Edited to add: Also, the need for reciprocal acceptance plays a part, too.

I can heartily recommend not letting the walls down when the other person is keeping theirs firmly up. Been hit twice and never seem to learn. That way lies pain.

I don't mean that of course. If everyone kept their walls up until the other person dropped, then no-one would get anywhere. I guess I'll go on leaving myself wide open until a Lady comes along that'll reciprocate fully.

The Earl

 

[The_Fool]

I can heartily recommend not letting the walls down when the other person is keeping theirs firmly up. Been hit twice and never seem to learn. That way lies pain.

I don't mean that of course. If everyone kept their walls up until the other person dropped, then no-one would get anywhere. I guess I'll go on leaving myself wide open until a Lady comes along that'll reciprocate fully.

The Earl

Maybe a gradual mutual erosion? You take down one brick and so will I?

 

[impressive]

Maybe a gradual mutual erosion?

Damn, that sounds erotic!

 

[TheEarl]

Damn, that sounds erotic!

Ever get the feeling that you've just hijacked your own thread?

The Earl

 

[The_Fool]

Damn, that sounds erotic!

Maybe turn it into a gradual mutual erosion of morals....

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Do you ever wonder what the world would be like if what primarily drove our actions was love instead of fear?

Most of my actions are pretty prosaic, so let me see: I’d go to the store and people would just give me stuff. I wouldn’t have to work, because electricity and rent and all that would be free, but I’d probably spend my time helping other people just for the joy of it.

At night I’d go to a bar and everyone would kiss me and give me beer. Then we’d all go in the back and have a group grope.

Yeah. Sounds pretty nice.

Is that the kind of stuff you mean?

---dr.M.

 

[yui]

Do you ever wonder what the world would be like if what primarily drove our actions was love instead of fear?

Most of my actions are pretty prosaic, so let me see: I’d go to the store and people would just give me stuff. I wouldn’t have to work, because electricity and rent and all that would be free, but I’d probably spend my time helping other people just for the joy of it.

At night I’d go to a bar and everyone would kiss me and give me beer. Then we’d all go in the back and have a group grope.

Yeah. Sounds pretty nice.

Is that the kind of stuff you mean?

---dr.M.

Edited because alcohol makes me say things I shouldn't say. Sorry for getting OT.

 

[The_Fool]

My first thought is that I would list the prime motivation self-interest. Need, followed by want, followed by greed. Maslow and all of that....

Love is interesting, but maybe philanthropic drivers would be more useful.

But then I'm just foolish....

 

[TheEarl]

My first thought is that I would list the prime motivation self-interest. Need, followed by want, followed by greed. Maslow and all of that....

Love is interesting, but maybe philanthropic drivers would be more useful.

But then I'm just foolish....

But 'Need' is a fear thing. You fear what will happen (with good reason) if you don't have the things that you need. Love is 'Want.'

If love was the primary motivator, then we'd be doing things for other people above what we personally needed.

I guess that's actually kinda true when you're in love, just restricted to that one person who you love.

The Earl

 

[impressive]

Do you ever wonder what the world would be like if what primarily drove our actions was love instead of fear?

...

Is that the kind of stuff you mean?

---dr.M.

Partly. The discussion with my friend this morning was not sexual. We were talking about fear in relation to bigotry and prejudice and the way people viewed as "different" are treated in general. However, my mind added sex. (Surprise!)

 

[cloudy]

We were talking about fear in relation to bigotry and prejudice and the way people viewed as "different" are treated in general.

I think it's the way humans are wired, Imp. I've long said that what you don't understand, you fear, and what you fear, you try to destroy.

If you look at it that way, it may go back to the earliest race memories, perhaps.

 

[mismused]

This morning, I was exchanging e-mails with a friend. We were discussing how people base their decisions on fear, and out of nowhere I asked:



That little question has been nagging at me all day long. I feel like there's a big "Ah ha!" in there somewhere that's dancing just out of my reach, and I get the feeling it's related somehow to D/s relationships in a complete surrender kinda way. (I'm not making ANY sense, am I?)

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Maybe you can spark my "Ah ha!" (and inspire a story).

========================

Oh, boy! Forgive this if I post it, but I'm going to try it out. If you disagree, sorry. If you feel I'm nuts, well, be kind.

We seek comfort (air, water, food, shelter -- can't be comfortable when physically in need), which is automatically predisposed to pleasure (tasty food, sweet water, good shelter).

The more complicated our society has become, our fears complicate our desire for pleasure. Oh, yeah, pleasure is also sexual. Can't forget that.

So, the one without the other isn't possible, but we really want pleasure without fear.

To wit: fear modifys pleasure to make it comfortable. Our minds are the mediating medium twixt the two.

That's my short story on this, and I'm sticking to it (mostly, I think).

Did that do anything for you, Imp?

Okay, I'm going back to writing my story.

mismused

 

[cantdog]

I've always done this too.

Even though the thing I desire most is to open up like that, I can't do it. I think I need to know that the person I'm opening up to is also opening to me. If I question it or am uncertain, the walls go up and stay up.

Edited to add: Also, the need for reciprocal acceptance plays a part, too.

So are we talking individually? One person deciding to skip fear and go with love? Or is everyone doing it, as in Mab's scenario?

Or do you want just a select group to abandon fear of one another, but retain it for the world at large? Just a couple, just a family, just a small brotherhood?

I think it's three different cases, but the one where everyone does that just blows my mind. I can't encompass it. I don't believe we'd be human any longer. I don't even think we'd be animals any longer.

Isn't fear of falling what keeps us from the ledge? Isn't fear of starving, or drowning, good for keeping us alive? If everyone was just trusting everyone, just only people, but still fearing tigers and tsunamis, then we're back to a select group, but it's a big group!

What about power? If your love-driven person is a perfect sub, who can be the dom? Could anyone care for power any more, at all, if they were motivated by love? I don't believe so.

Wow, this is a big topic.

cantdog

 

[scheherazade_79]

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Maybe you can spark my "Ah ha!" (and inspire a story).

I guess the ultimate rejection of fear for love is a gay relationship set against a religious backdrop. I had a gf who came from a very religious family. Because of her mother's hardcore Bible-bashing, the constant homophobic radio broadcasts, and having to listen to her brother promise hell and damnation on all gays, she took a long time to trust me enough to open up. But when she did... it was out of this world!

Does that have an "Ah ha!" factor?

 

[matriarch]

I don't think it possible to give oneself completely, totally, utterly 100% to another person, allowing them to know everything...every single thing about you....without, as a consequence, losing some of yourself. Maybe even ALL of yourself. 'You' as an endividual functioning entity, would cease to exist, because the other person, lets say the Dom/me for argument's sake, would be able to totally control your every movement, thought, feeling.

I don't see that as love.

Every human being has a need to retain something within them that is only for and about them. Call them secrets if you will, but there are things that 'I' know, like, do, think, feel, that I personally hold in my heart, my soul, and would never reveal to anyone. The giving away of those 'inner secrets', would in my view, leave me so vulnerable, so open, that pain would inevitably be the only outcome.

But, on the other hand, to find a person, another soul, with whom you were in any way tempted to share such totality, such completeness...isn't that what, in the end, we all strive for, spend all our time seeking? Our soulmate?? The person to whom we would be willing to hand it all, share it all. 'Share', not 'control'.

That I see as love.

Mat's view.

 

[TheEarl]

I don't think it possible to give oneself completely, totally, utterly 100% to another person, allowing them to know everything...every single thing about you....without, as a consequence, losing some of yourself. Maybe even ALL of yourself. 'You' as an endividual functioning entity, would cease to exist, because the other person, lets say the Dom/me for argument's sake, would be able to totally control your every movement, thought, feeling.

I don't see that as love.

Every human being has a need to retain something within them that is only for and about them. Call them secrets if you will, but there are things that 'I' know, like, do, think, feel, that I personally hold in my heart, my soul, and would never reveal to anyone. The giving away of those 'inner secrets', would in my view, leave me so vulnerable, so open, that pain would inevitably be the only outcome.

But, on the other hand, to find a person, another soul, with whom you were in any way tempted to share such totality, such completeness...isn't that what, in the end, we all strive for, spend all our time seeking? Our soulmate?? The person to whom we would be willing to hand it all, share it all. 'Share', not 'control'.

That I see as love.

Mat's view.

Damn straight. Well said.

The Earl

 

[Awful Arthur]

I read somewhere once that humans have only three motivations: fear, reward and revenge.

I disagree. I think probably, fear, immortality and greed are more accurate. Fear and immortality cover a hell of a lot of ground.

I don't see love as a motivator in the big picture.

AA

 

[matriarch]

Damn straight. Well said.

The Earl