More States

[Boxlicker101]

That is your evidence that Senator Obama actually believed there were 57 states?

It's my evidence he didn't know how many there are.

 

[Wrong Element]

While I've read the Constitution in the past, and occasionally brush up on portions of it (usually relevant to a current conversation) I'm curious why it's practically impossible under the Constitution. It's impossible politically yes but I don't recall anything in the Constitution about how state lines are drawn or demanding they keep the same borders.

I'm willing to admit that I may have missed something but I'd like to know what it is.

"Impossible politically" is what I meant, because the Constitution makes division of an existing state/creating new states from portions of old states a political process that requires too many folks to agree.

This sort of talk is fine for letting off steam, but if it came to the point where splitting up a state actually became a possibility, cooler heads would likely prevail.

 

[Boxlicker101]

While I've read the Constitution in the past, and occasionally brush up on portions of it (usually relevant to a current conversation) I'm curious why it's practically impossible under the Constitution. It's impossible politically yes but I don't recall anything in the Constitution about how state lines are drawn or demanding they keep the same borders.

I'm willing to admit that I may have missed something but I'd like to know what it is.

I believe there have been three examples of states being divided. The states on the eastern seaboard claimed large areas to the west but agreed to relinquish them. When VA seceded from the union, WVA seceded from VA and was recognized by the fed. gov. In the MO Compromise, MO was admitted to the union as a slave state and MA divided into MA and ME, which entered the union as a free state.

I believe it would take an act of Congress to divide any state, except maybe TX.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I believe there have been three examples of states being divided. The states on the eastern seaboard claimed large areas to the west but agreed to relinquish them. When VA seceded from the union, WVA seceded from VA and was recognized by the fed. gov. In the MO Compromise, MO was admitted to the union as a slave state and MA divided into MA and ME, which entered the union as a free state.

I believe it would take an act of Congress to divide any state, except maybe TX.

Thank you, the official question was already answered as to what the Constitution had to say about it which is what I actually wanted to know. I often see people talk about Constitution this, Constitution that on subjects that the Constitution either doesn't mention at all or addresses n such a fuzzy manner that it's difficult to see.

I am not ashamed to admit I don't know everything and I might as well ask. If you pay attention I'm only slightly less likely to ask rob or UD for a cite than I am miles or Vette and that's got a lot to do with how often I've found miles to be outright lying and Vette to be omitting something that would color people's opinions.

 

[njlauren]

"Impossible politically" is what I meant, because the Constitution makes division of an existing state/creating new states from portions of old states a political process that requires too many folks to agree.

This sort of talk is fine for letting off steam, but if it came to the point where splitting up a state actually became a possibility, cooler heads would likely prevail.

There was once talk of NYC seceding from NY State, it was mostly half in jest but the basis was that NYC in many ways is under the thumb of the state legislature, the state controls a lot of things that other cities don't have to face, everything from tax rates to zoning legislation have to go through the state legislature (which ends up screwing things up usually), and then NYC provides the bulk of NY States tax revenue but a lot of it is siphoned off to keep the rest of the state going.

With secession these days, I agree, it just letting off steam. Most of the places that talk about secession are usually the more conservative/rural areas, who are upset at the 'liberals' in other places, who aren't "real americans" like them, but the reality hits home that many of these areas or states that want to secede are very dependent on the other part of the state they would be seceding from. Farm areas love to claim they are self sufficient, but the reality is they don't have the tax base to support the things they need, as many of the states who claim the government is evil get a lot more money from the feds than they pay in

 

[BotanyBoy]

Farm areas love to claim they are self sufficient, but the reality is they don't have the tax base to support the things they need.

Such as? LOL Do tell all the necessary things us farmers, ranchers and rural folk get from the city that we just couldn't live without?

One must wonder how the human population made it the past few hundred thousand years without NYC....

 

[patient1]

Such as? LOL Do tell all the necessary things us farmers, ranchers and rural folk get from the city that we just couldn't live without?

One must wonder how the human population made it the past few hundred thousand years without NYC....

As a former farmer, I wondered the same thing...
and concluded it could be a reference to gov. subsidies and ethanol requirements in the last 20 years.

 

[domroger]

Such as? LOL Do tell all the necessary things us farmers, ranchers and rural folk get from the city that we just couldn't live without?

A market for the crops and the roads to get them there

 

[BotanyBoy]

A market for the crops and the roads to get them there

Those are luxuries, not needs. Also they would not vanish should my area break off from CA legally speaking and we no longer got welfare/social programs and support from DayGo/LA/SF/Sacramento. They still need our food/water and there are perfectly capable people here that can maintain and or build new roads without the holy blessing of L.A./SF. Further more without politicians to hold guns to our heads anymore we would make a grip off selling them our food/water. Maybe even more than the welfare they give us.

NJ lauren has it backwards.....it's not the rural farmers/ranchers that need the big city. It's the city that needs the farmers/ranchers. Dinner stops showing up here? We go out front/back and get moar.....

Dinner stops showing up in a box? SF/LA come totally un-fuckin-glued in less than 48 hrs. Federal emergency is declared and it's a total disaster of panic, chaos and violence.

And the powers that be know that shit too....that's why they will never let us break off from LosDaygo/FranJose.

As a former farmer, I wondered the same thing...
and concluded it could be a reference to gov. subsidies and ethanol requirements in the last 20 years.

LOL

However would I clothe, feed or shelter me and mine without big cities and their giant mountains of bureaucratic bullshit to assist???

Maybe NJLauren will come back and inform us at some point.....

 

[ishtat]

Mebbe the Democrats might like to add Mexico and Central America as a dozen or so new states. You would solve the illegal immigrant problem overnight.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Mebbe the Democrats might like to add Mexico and Central America as a dozen or so new states. You would solve the illegal immigrant problem overnight.

That was considered after the Mexican-American War. It didn't happen for several reasons. One was Senator John C. Calhoun:

We have never dreamt of incorporating into our Union any but the Caucasian race—the free white race. To incorporate Mexico, would be the very first instance of the kind, of incorporating an Indian race; for more than half of the Mexicans are Indians, and the other is composed chiefly of mixed tribes. I protest against such a union as that! Ours, sir, is the Government of a white race.... We are anxious to force free government on all; and I see that it has been urged ... that it is the mission of this country to spread civil and religious liberty over all the world, and especially over this continent. It is a great mistake.[47]

 

[RobDownSouth]

NJ lauren has it backwards.....it's not the rural farmers/ranchers that need the big city. It's the city that needs the farmers/ranchers. Dinner stops showing up here? We go out front/back and get moar.....

Rural farmers need the unlimited access to the California aquafiers to grow vegetables cheaply. California is the only state I believe that permits farmers unlimited tapping into the public water supply.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

It's my evidence he didn't know how many there are.

No, it's your opinion that he didn't know how many there are based off the evidence of his making a mistake.

It's what's known as a "gaffe."

Now, here's true evidence of an actual belief in something factually wrong:

https://llwproductions.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/376710_10151018534316275_128113458_n.jpg

 

[BotanyBoy]

Rural farmers need the unlimited access to the California aquafiers to grow vegetables cheaply. California is the only state I believe that permits farmers unlimited tapping into the public water supply.

Of course they do....if they want dinner to keep showing up on the shelves and drive through they god damn better and that's all the fuck there is to it.

How I see things in a big city vs rural lifestyle perspective is we provide your food/raw materials needed to live the way you and largely we do it by your rules.

IN EXCHANGE....we get luxury items and the occasional culture injection that without a doubt offer a considerably nicer lifestyle for all but the staunchest hermits and purest of homesteaders.

A far cry from NJDipshits claims that it's the farmers/ranchers who NEED the big city. Her problem is she slipped up and said the word need. And the agrarian/hunter gatherer lifestyle doesn't need a fucking thing from urbanites. The urban/metro lifestyle is 100% DEPENDENT on the agrarian/hunter gatherer class to provide them with their supplies so they can spend their time doing other shit, like developing apps, creating art in some form, engineer new gadgets to make life better for everyone etc etc.

One with a whole lot of need and the other with a whole lot of want and the fluctuating exchange between the two.....it's not to say one lifestyle is right or wrong, I enjoy both, but let's not bullshit about it. Cities need food more than farmers need paperwork/luxury items.

 

[RobDownSouth]

You sound just like AJ when you go on one of your agrarian/hunter mudhut "rugged individualist" rants.

The truth is, like Voltaire once said, it takes a village.

Today's modern farmer wouldn't last a growing season without his GMO seed, his custom fertilizers and his state of the art tractors.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Merging states seems like a good idea too. The Dakotas clearly need only two Senators.

===========================
739,482 (2014)
North Dakota, Population

70,762 mi²
North Dakota, Area

===========================

1.626 million (2013)
Manhattan, Population

33.77 mi²
Manhattan, Area

===========================

 

[Boxlicker101]

You sound just like AJ when you go on one of your agrarian/hunter mudhut "rugged individualist" rants.

The truth is, like Voltaire once said, it takes a village.

Today's modern farmer wouldn't last a growing season without his GMO seed, his custom fertilizers and his state of the art tractors.

When did Voltaire say that? It's an old African proverb.

 

[RobDownSouth]

When did Voltaire say that? It's an old African proverb.

Hey, breakthrough! You figured out the correct way to quote someone!

I know Voltaire didn't say that, I simply attribute any and all random quotes to him, just like brother AJ does. An homage, if you will.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hey, breakthrough! You figured out the correct way to quote someone!

I know Voltaire didn't say that, I simply attribute any and all random quotes to him, just like brother AJ does. An homage, if you will.

I have always quoted people exactly like that, unless I have preceded the quote with one of my own in order to provide context.

 

[mark_j]

You sound just like AJ when you go on one of your agrarian/hunter mudhut "rugged individualist" rants.

The truth is, like Voltaire once said, it takes a village.

Today's modern farmer wouldn't last a growing season without his GMO seed, his custom fertilizers and his state of the art tractors.

And what you know about it would fit in a thimble. It doesn't take all that fancy stuff to grow enough to feed myself and several others. We just wouldn't be able to keep the grocer stocked with corn chips and all that other stuff you come to expect.

 

[RobDownSouth]

And what you know about it would fit in a thimble. It doesn't take all that fancy stuff to grow enough to feed myself and several others. We just wouldn't be able to keep the grocer stocked with corn chips and all that other stuff you come to expect.

Yeah, I'm sure you're quite the expert at livin' off the land.

It's a common fantasy.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You sound just like AJ when you go on one of your agrarian/hunter mudhut "rugged individualist" rants.

Yea just like AJ.....

All I did was point out the differences and unavoidable facts surrounding resource availibility in a city/metro area vs rural farming areas. I never said anything about fucking mudhut you fact hating hysterical liburhul dip shit.

Cities can't make it without farmers....farmers can make it without cities, that's just the way it is Cpt. Butthurt.... deal.

The truth is, like Voltaire once said, it takes a village.

A village ain't a fuckin 200 mile super slab concrete smear of a megaplex with millions and millions of people.......no matter how bad you want it to be.

This....
http://www.ecohustler.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/glog_sw_01b2.jpg

Is not only more sustainable but it provides a foundation for this......

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/san-francisco-city-view-fuminana.jpg

It's not negative it's just how things are structured....SOMEONE has to make the food and the rooftops of the sky scrapers aren't going to feed SF/LA/Houston/Dallas/Chicago/ATL/Miami/Boston/NYC. You can have an agrarian society without metro support, you can't have a metro society without an agrarian base to support it and themz the facts.

Food is a need......paperwork, entertainment, toys and nice tractors, trucks n' shit...those are luxuries.

Today's modern farmer wouldn't last a growing season without his GMO seed, his custom fertilizers and his state of the art tractors.

In some aspects the aggie world that's true but the city helping the farmer to be more efficient doesn't change the fact the city only gets to exist if the farmer is doing the damn thing to keep the city fed. And the farmer/rancher that has been doing it long before 8 lane wide highways and the FDA showed up and magic'ed liburhul food into existence, will still be doing the damn thing with or without mega metro areas.....cuz mother fuckers gotta eat.

Sorry NJDipshits claim that farmers NEED cities as much as cities need farmers is a complete load of horse shit.

BTW buy more pistachios this next holiday season ...they are good for you...and delicious...and I want to buy my boo a new SUV