More jobs leaving America, more Chinese POISON coming into America

Le Jacquelope

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http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070624/apples_from_china.html?.v=3&.pf=personal-finance&printer=1

AP
US Apple Growers Brace for China Rivals
Sunday June 24, 1:30 pm ET
By Kimberly Hefling, Associated Press Writer
Increasingly Anxious, U.S. Apple Growers Brace for Expected Competition From China

GETTYSBURG, Pa. (AP) -- Farmers have been growing apples here since before the Civil War, and as times have changed, they have changed with them, planting smaller trees to speed up harvests and growing popular new varieties to satisfy changing tastes.

But the growers who have made this mountainous region the core of apple-growing in Pennsylvania worry that they face a new challenge that may be too big to overcome and could change their way of life.

Like farmers in the bigger apple-producing states, they are becoming increasingly anxious about the prospect of China flooding the U.S. market with their fresh apples -- an event many believe is inevitable, even if it could be years away.

They saw what happened in the 1990s when Chinese apple juice concentrate made it into the United States. Prices got so low, some U.S. juice companies were forced out of the U.S. market. Growers could no longer afford to grow apples just for making juice.

With the Farm Bill up for renewal this year for the first time since 2002, apple growers are pressing for an unprecedented amount of federal funding to develop technologies to make harvesting less costly, and aid to develop overseas markets.

Even before new questions were raised this year about how well China enforces food safety rules, some growers were also pressing the U.S. government to require country-of-origin stickers on all apples.

"We're facing a threat that we've never faced before in terms of their ability to come in and essentially replace every apple that we produce in this country numerically and at a much lower cost," said John Rice, a seventh-generation grower whose grandfather made money in the Depression era by gathering apples from area growers and shipping them to England in 100-pound barrels.

Rice's family today owns 1,000 acres of orchards and packs and markets apples for 50 area growers primarily in Pennsylvania's historic growing area in Adams County, on the Maryland border.

"We have to lower our costs and we have to do what other successful business have done in the face of Chinese competition and that is to innovate, to stay ahead, to either grow new varieties that they don't grow in China, or whatever it takes," Rice said.

Fifteen years ago, China grew fewer apples than the United States. Today, it grows five times as many -- nearly half of all apples grown in the world.

China's advantage is its cheap labor. A picker makes about 28 cents an hour, or $2 per day, according to the U.S. Apple Association. In 2005, workers in Pennsylvania made about $9 to $10 per hour, and those in Washington state about $14 per hour, the association said.

Discussions between the U.S. and China over whether its fresh apples can be brought into the United States have been going on since 1998.

To gain access to the market here, China must prove that it meets U.S. standards for pest and disease control. The U.S. Apple Association said the Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service sent a list of more than 300 insects and diseases of concern to the quarantine inspection agency of the Chinese government in 2003. The Chinese government responded the next year, and then the United States asked for information on 52 pests from the list.

The value of U.S. apple production was estimated at more than $2.1 billion last year. About 60 percent of the apples are sold as fresh fruit, and about 25 percent are exported. Pennsylvania ranks fifth behind Washington, New York, California and Michigan in the number of apples grown.

Already, U.S. apple growers compete with Chinese growers for sales in parts of Southeast Asia and India.

After Chinese juice concentrate entered the U.S. market, the average price for juice apples fell from $153 per ton in 1995 to $55 per ton in 1998. The industry filed an antidumping case but lost on appeal with the U.S. Commerce Department. Today, more than half of imported concentrate comes from China.

"It was an uproar within the industry," said Jim Allen, president of the New York Apple Association. "What can we do? It just takes the bottom right out of our market when the product is being delivered to New York City for less than we can process and harvest it here in the United States."

Like in many areas of farming, many U.S. apple-growing operations have been absorbed by bigger ones. Some smaller remaining operations have survived by selling directly to consumers at farmers markets or developing niche markets selling organic or specialty apples.

Third-generation Pennsylvania grower Dave Benner, 61, like most growers, has slowly replaced older larger trees in his orchard with smaller dwarf ones that are close together. That makes the fruit easier and faster to pick. He also pays close attention to consumer demand and to the world market.

"Business is still business whether you're in agriculture production or you're in commercial manufacturing," Benner said. "When people want small economical cars then the automobile industry had to change. When people say they like the flavor of Gala or Fuji apples ... that's what I have to be growing."

Because more than half of the cost of growing apples goes toward labor, researchers have been working to develop technology and practices that will help cut labor costs. Among the concepts under development are machines that will allow apples to be mechanically picked without bruising, and platforms that lift up pickers so they don't have to climb ladders.

The apple industry is working with other fruit and vegetable industries to seek, in the 2007 Farm Bill, about $1 billion annually for research, a state block program, a program that helps it develop overseas markets and for expansion for a program that provides fruits and vegetables to school kids.

Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa., a member of the Senate Agriculture Committee, called these "basic nuts-and-bolts" items that would improve competitiveness.

The current Farm Bill, which was worth about $100 billion, passed in 2002 and expires in September. In it, country-of-origin labeling was mandated, but its implementation has been delayed until September 2008 because of opposition by retailers and others who say it is too burdensome.

Most apples already carry the labeling, but Mark Barrett, 52, a grower in Washington's Yakima Valley, said full implementation is the best way to help U.S. apple growers.

"I believe if we had country-of-origin labeling that the consumers would buy U.S. all the time," Barrett said.

Allen, the head of the New York apple growers group, said it would be hard to promote U.S. apples as being better than foreign-grown apples if consumers can't be sure where they have been grown.

One bad apple, he said, might give all apples a bad name.

U.S. Apple Association: http://www.usapple.org
 
Unfortunately, much of the food product coming in to the U.S. from other countries doesn't always meet USDA standards. There is no way of knowing how those products were grown, what insecticides and other pesticides were used on those products or if they are even fit for human consumption. I guess over the next 10 years, when we see an increase in chronic ailments and disease in this country, will we fully understand the long term effects eating such food has.
 
SilentMale said:
Unfortunately, much of the food product coming in to the U.S. from other countries doesn't always meet USDA standards. There is no way of knowing how those products were grown, what insecticides and other pesticides were used on those products or if they are even fit for human consumption. I guess over the next 10 years, when we see an increase in chronic ailments and disease in this country, will we fully understand the long term effects eating such food has.
Meanwhile the Republicans will say "hey, it's cheaper, shut up!" while ignoring the health costs that this will inflict upon America.

Republicans are all about cheap stuff at the cost of absolutely everything else.
 
LovingTongue said:
Meanwhile the Republicans will say "hey, it's cheaper, shut up!" while ignoring the health costs that this will inflict upon America.

Republicans are all about cheap stuff at the cost of absolutely everything else.


Unfortunately, I dont think this is about Republicans or Democrats, but rather who really runs Capitol Hill, which would be Big Pharma and the food industries. Considering that both parties have senators and representatives that get a substantial amount of their campaign contributions from the pharmaceutical companies and the food companies, it wouldn't matter which party controlled Congress or the White House.

Consider that one pharmaceutical company had 1100 lobbyists lobbying Congress last year, that would be one lobbyist for every senator and every representative with a few left over for the FDA and the FTC. Don't forget that many laws and policies go into effect by unelected officials because they run the beaurocracy.
 
busybody said:
No you dont

Woulda been better had you remained a SILENT MALE :mad:


Obviously, you can't get past the political parties nonsense. Not everything is as black and white as you seem to think. Probably why I ignore most of your posts. Finger pointing back and forth between two political parties and posting about which one you think is right or wrong doesn't solve problems. In fact it is a pointless exercise. Why do you post political crap on a erotica board anyway. There are other boards out there where you can find more people that agree or disagree with you that are much better equipped to deal with your political issues.
 
SilentMale said:
Obviously, you can't get past the political parties nonsense. Not everything is as black and white as you seem to think. Probably why I ignore most of your posts. Finger pointing back and forth between two political parties and posting about which one you think is right or wrong doesn't solve problems. In fact it is a pointless exercise. Why do you post political crap on a erotica board anyway. There are other boards out there where you can find more people that agree or disagree with you that are much better equipped to deal with your political issues.
He also says shit like "black people are useless." :rolleyes:
 
Five surgeons from big cities are discussing who makes the Best patients to operate on.

The first surgeon, from New York, says, "I like to see accountants on my operating table, because when you open them up, everything inside is numbered."

The second, from Chicago, responds, "Yeah, but you should try electricians! Everything inside them is color coded."

The third surgeon, from Dallas, says, "No, I really think librarians are the best, everything inside them is in alphabetical order."


The fourth surgeon, from Los Angeles chimes in: "You know, I Like
construction workers...those guys always understand when you have a few parts left over."

But the fifth surgeon, from Washington DC shut them all up when he
observed: "You're all wrong. Politicians are the easiest to Operate on.
There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains and no spine, and the
head and the ass are interchangeable
 
At least apples are in the diet for the Chinese child slave laborers.
 
Isn't it awful. I mean who started all this free trade and globalisation anyway?

Sorry, I am being silly. Free trade is only good when the US has all the advantages.

Keep whining, it's making my day.
 
Notmonogamous said:
Isn't it awful. I mean who started all this free trade and globalisation anyway?

Sorry, I am being silly. Free trade is only good when the US has all the advantages.

Keep whining, it's making my day.
We the people sure as hell didn't start it, fuckturd. Get real.
 
LovingTongue said:
We the people sure as hell didn't start it, fuckturd. Get real.

Ah, my first fucktard - just like the old days.

You the people have a democracy - you are collectively responsible.

Reap what you sow.

Once you have had it good, you don't have the right nor the power to keep everything the same.

Adapt, innovate or fade away.
 
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Notmonogamous said:
Ah, my first fucktard - just like the old days.

You the people have a democracy - you are collectively responsible.

Reap what you sow.

Once you have had it good, you don't have the right nor the power to keep everything the same.

Adapt, innovate or fade away.
There is one, and only one way you can adapt or innovate against a country that uses slave labor and has no worker safety or pollution controls:

Become as polluted as they are, and become as inhumane as they are.

You're the same type of brainless turd that tried to defend Herbert Prescott when he was caught trading with Nazi Germany: their argument back then was if we could buy cheap Jew skin lamp shades from the Nazi's, they'd leave us alone.

Hell, you'd trade with the Nazi's if you could. China is far worse. And damn, you're such a brainless moron if you're stupid enough to say China's not worse than Nazi Germany.
 
LovingTongue said:
There is one, and only one way you can adapt or innovate against a country that uses slave labor and has no worker safety or pollution controls:

Become as polluted as they are, and become as inhumane as they are.

You're the same type of brainless turd that tried to defend Herbert Prescott when he was caught trading with Nazi Germany: their argument back then was if we could buy cheap Jew skin lamp shades from the Nazi's, they'd leave us alone.

Hell, you'd trade with the Nazi's if you could. China is far worse. And damn, you're such a brainless moron if you're stupid enough to say China's not worse than Nazi Germany.

How funny - so now the issue is all about whether I think China is worse than Nazi Germany. This is how children argue.

And there I was thinking we might discuss the macro economics of globalisation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the US built on the back of ethnic cleansing the aboriginal peoples, taking their lands, and then exploiting African slave labour?
 
Notmonogamous said:
How funny - so now the issue is all about whether I think China is worse than Nazi Germany. This is how children argue.
Even children can reason better than you. The issue is that you support free trade with any cheating, unscrupulous undemocratic shit hole of a nation whose very PURPOSE is to destroy the rights you hold dear.

If China wins in globalism, human rights will not continue to exist. That is an absolute certainty. To get a job you'll have to live like them. Good luck with that.

And there I was thinking we might discuss the macro economics of globalisation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the US built on the back of ethnic cleansing the aboriginal peoples, taking their lands, and then exploiting African slave labour?
Yes, but that pales in comparison to the 100-200 MILLION baby girls that have been killed, or aborted, in China. Not to mention the prisoners they use for labor right now, and whom they harvest for organ donations, etc.

You don't have a future if China isn't utterly cut off.

We Americans don't NEED China. We can cut them off right now and build our own stuff and to hell with China. What, you think we can't build those DVD players? Shit, bitch, we invented them. But if we don't cut off China, our psychological dependency will only grow until America is too weak to cut itself off from them.

Then, of course, you aren't smart enough to know what happens next. Go back to the 1970s and the consequences of the Yom Kippur war. Here's a clue: China could slap America with an embargo and we'd be totally screwed, but they wouldn't be. The arabs did it in 1973 and then again in 1979.


Aw hell, you're too much of a retard to comprehend any of that. Why don't you go back to whacking off on Ayn Rand and leave the economics discussions to adults? Which, by the way, excludes you.
 
LovingTongue said:
Even children can reason better than you. The issue is that you support free trade with any cheating, unscrupulous undemocratic shit hole of a nation whose very PURPOSE is to destroy the rights you hold dear.

If China wins in globalism, human rights will not continue to exist. That is an absolute certainty. To get a job you'll have to live like them. Good luck with that.


Yes, but that pales in comparison to the 100-200 MILLION baby girls that have been killed, or aborted, in China. Not to mention the prisoners they use for labor right now, and whom they harvest for organ donations, etc.

You don't have a future if China isn't utterly cut off.

We Americans don't NEED China. We can cut them off right now and build our own stuff and to hell with China. What, you think we can't build those DVD players? Shit, bitch, we invented them. But if we don't cut off China, our psychological dependency will only grow until America is too weak to cut itself off from them.

Then, of course, you aren't smart enough to know what happens next. Go back to the 1970s and the consequences of the Yom Kippur war. Here's a clue: China could slap America with an embargo and we'd be totally screwed, but they wouldn't be. The arabs did it in 1973 and then again in 1979.


Aw hell, you're too much of a retard to comprehend any of that. Why don't you go back to whacking off on Ayn Rand and leave the economics discussions to adults? Which, by the way, excludes you.

You're a scream.

Have you ever been to China BTW? I am going there tonight, third time this year and have been going four or five times a year for nearly ten years.

Your presumptions about what it is like are quite comical, a bit like a demented Fox News version.

You are almost completely wrong about the country and how they behave, however your concern about the balance of power shifting in their favour through economic strength has been of interest to me for many years. It's just that you want to shout about it in an idiotic manner. a typical US macho us and them flag waving one-sided black and white manner.

Still, I am glad to know that the US has only ever traded with perfect democracies. :)

Here, http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/18902.htm - educate yourself.
 
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Notmonogamous said:
You're a scream.

Have you ever been to China BTW? I am going there tonight, third time this year and have been going four or five times a year for nearly ten years.

Your presumptions about what it is like are quite comical, a bit like a demented Fox News version.

You are almost completely wrong about the country and how they behave, however your concern about the balance of power shifting in their favour through economic strength has been of interest to me for many years. It's just that you want to shout about it in an idiotic manner. a typical US macho us and them flag waving one-sided black and white manner.

Still, I am glad to know that the US has only ever traded with perfect democracies. :)
Look, moron, don't tell me what I know about China. I have solid documented facts to back up what I have to say. All you have is unsupported bullshit to contradict me with.

China's war against freedom of expression:
http://australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,21362878-15400,00.html

China's war against democracy:
http://goldsea.com/Asiagate/703/11cnn.html

China's people kill countless baby girls:
http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2002/1024/fo5-1.html
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9908/china.social.overview/content/infanticide.html

China's prison labor:
http://www.businessweek.com/archives/1991/b3210035.arc.htm

China's child labor:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03/08/china.school.labor/

China's political prisoners:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/red.giant/prisons/wu.essay/

China harvests prisoners against their will for organ donations:
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2006/07/former_chinese_policeman_lifts_lid_on_organ_harvesting.php
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901060501-1186533,00.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/06/28/china.organ/


Do I have any further objections, or are you ready to shut the fuck up now about China?
 
Well no. I have the experience of having spent maybe six months there over the last eight years, working with many Chinese and you have some outdated politically skewed weblinks that you obviously haven't even read. For example, the prime reason for "missing girls" is under reporting.

But clearly you have your own agenda and Lord forbid that reality will get in the way of that.

There is no real democracy in the US with 300 million people - don't you think you should take into account the problems of running a country with 1.5 Billion, who earn less than 5% of what you do.

Child labour - was explained in that link that you didn't read. Economic reality makes it far worse in most other parts of the world. The west's own school holiday structure was developed so that children could work the harvest and let's not even begin to think about what things were like in Victorian times, only three generations ago.

Guantanamo Bay and torture camps in Eastern Europe - enough said.

Abortion - legal in almost all western democracies.

Using the organs of executed criminals - well that market is driven by the west and lets not forget that our own unsrstanding of anatomy and medical advances were made through the use for scientific purposes of executed people.

Prisoners being made to work - and?

China is by no means perfect, but then nor is the US; wasn't this about apples. If you prefer your Pa apples then buy them, if you want a cheaper one, then buy them. Free markets are that simple. Someone can produce cheaper apples - ohhhh, let's bomb the bastards. :rolleyes:
 
Notmonogamous said:
Well no. I have the experience of having spent maybe six months there over the last eight years, working with many Chinese and you have some outdated politically skewed weblinks that you obviously haven't even read. For example, the prime reason for "missing girls" is under reporting.
Your experience with China hardly goes beyond shopping for dishes, dude, and it's becoming more obvious every time you respond.

But clearly you have your own agenda and Lord forbid that reality will get in the way of that.
My agenda, alright. Democracy good. Dictatorships BAD. I say America should never do any business with any dictatorships, EVER. Period.

There is no real democracy in the US with 300 million people
That right there discredits anything you have to say, moron. Democracy can work for any population.

- don't you think you should take into account the problems of running a country with 1.5 Billion, who earn less than 5% of what you do.
Hell, they need democracy more than ever, with those statistics. Your defense of dictatorships ain't gonna fly here in the West. Perhaps you should go to China - and stay there. We don't need your fascist ass here.

Child labour - was explained in that link that you didn't read. Economic reality makes it far worse in most other parts of the world. The west's own school holiday structure was developed so that children could work the harvest and let's not even begin to think about what things were like in Victorian times, only three generations ago.
I did read the link, you fool. There's no excuse for child labor in the TWENTY FIRST CENTURY. America outlawed child labor, in case you missed that part of history.

Guantanamo Bay and torture camps in Eastern Europe - enough said.
How does this excuse China? At least America is trying to get RID of Dubya. We just elected a liberal Congress that is working hard on dismantling the chimp. The CHIMP is being forced to close Guantanamo. Can China say that? No. China jails you just for talking about democracy.

Abortion - legal in almost all western democracies.
Forced abortions - almost nonexistent except in China!

Using the organs of executed criminals - well that market is driven by the west and lets not forget that our own unsrstanding of anatomy and medical advances were made through the use for scientific purposes of executed people.
Wow. That excuse was used to defend Nazi Germany's human experimentations, too. Sieg Heil.

Prisoners being made to work - and?
Jesus. You don't see what's wrong with that? You're one sick little puppy.

China is by no means perfect, but then nor is the US; wasn't this about apples. If you prefer your Pa apples then buy them, if you want a cheaper one, then buy them. Free markets are that simple. Someone can produce cheaper apples - ohhhh, let's bomb the bastards. :rolleyes:
Hello? Is anything penetrating your adamantium skull? China has had a fairly serious problem with POISONED food as of late. And China's "cheaper" food is cheap because they have a super piss poor outlook on the value of a human life as heavily documented and proven by the facts I've posted.


You know, there's a reason almost nobody immigrates to China...
 
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