Minimum Wage & Union Wages: You Pay for them...

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Compare the spending of his administration and Bush's. See which is more. Then get back to me. Also, take into account the special circumstances under which his Presidency started, and that a large portion of the debt he has incurred was necessary spending to keep the economy from free-falling. And yes, I'm saying the stimulus was a good thing, and if there are any economists out there that disagree with that still, I'd love to hear what they have to say.

The WARS!


The WARS!


The WARS!


The WARS!



Especially the one the Democrats demanded TWO votes on, so they could look tough 'heading into an election' after having gotten egg on their faces for blasting Bush for doing NOTHING in Afghanistan, the Friday right before special ops went in and lit the place up...

That's the problem with Democrats, they always want to claim success and never share in failure...

Take off your partisan hat. We Libertarians blasted Bush's social spending which was all done to win over Democrats and prove Republicans were not cartoonishly evil Scrooge McDucks, and look what it got them, the Stupid Scrooge McDuck label, hence the Tea Party...
__________________
Why can't Liberals (, Blue Dogs and Republican moderates) stomach the Tea Party?
Because it requires a strong Constitution!
A_J, the Stupid

 

[markfifa0791]

How would they exist without the internal combustion engine?



Fucking moron. Next time, bring a brain to the discussion.



Why don't you start yelling stuff about Sarah Palin and the Tea Party destroying the USPS; it's all the rage and currently in vogue with all the young dudes...

Now Lucy's looking sweet
Though he dresses like a queen
He can kick like a mule, it's a real mean team
We can love, we can love

How does asking another question answer his? Just because there was a private sector technology that allowed for the USPS to do its job doesn't change the fact that there do need to be maintained roads for them also.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

How does asking another question answer his? Just because there was a private sector technology that allowed for the USPS to do its job doesn't change the fact that there do need to be maintained roads for them also.

Because he's a one-note Nelly.

Did the government create the internal combustion engine? Do we still have a pony express?

WERE THE ROADS STRICTLY A LOCAL AFFAIR FOR THE FIRST 150 YEARS OR SO OF THE USPS???

Come on man, I think you're better than that...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

~~~

Thank you Slug, heck, I thought I was long winded and he sure sounds like a Professor: Louis René Beres was educated at Princeton (Ph.D., 1971) and is author of many books and articles dealing with literature, philosophy, international relations, and international law. He was born in Zürich, Switzerland on August 31, 1945.

I would agree with about everything he said, but most of it was redundant and he missed or is unaware that the true malady of not just America, but the free world, is the absence of a philosophy of life that provides a moral purpose and direction for ones' efforts.

Of course you know where I would go for the next step, so I shall not, but you are well qualified to provide the transition for others if they take the time to read the piece...

thank you again...

regards...

ami

I just know you like odd and expanding viewpoints; I didn't say that it read better than Rand...

 

[markfifa0791]

Woops, double post.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

What I'm doing is looking for a grass roots reaction from middle class tax payers who are tired of politics as usual from both major parties and the lunacy of the right wing tea bags.

I'm looking for middle class republicans who see through the propaganda created by the right wing power structure dilvered through the right wind media and the middle class dems who realiize their party is also bought and paid for. I'm lookig for a middle class party who is smart enough to not be manipulated by the media and who realizes that the super rich own this country and both parties.
I'm looking for a party who is smart enough to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain who pushes those bible, racial and gun control buttons that distract the middle class from voting voting for an ecomomic system that fucks them in the ass.

But, ironically, he HATES the Tea Party as "radicals..."


__________________
“I always use the word extreme. That is what the caucus instructed me to use this week.”
Senator Chuck Schumer

Why can't Liberals (, Blue Dogs and Republican moderates) stomach the Tea Party?
Because it requires a strong Constitution!
A_J, the Stupid

 

[markfifa0791]

Because he's a one-note Nelly.

Did the government create the internal combustion engine? Do we still have a pony express?

WERE THE ROADS STRICTLY A LOCAL AFFAIR FOR THE FIRST 150 YEARS OR SO OF THE USPS???

Come on man, I think you're better than that...

Well, not strictly local but one could argue that the construction of the interstate highway system drastically changed the way we travel. How would we privatize something like road maintenance? I just don't see it happening.

 

[markfifa0791]

GG Congress

By the way, off topic but way to go Congress- Dow is tumbling already.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Well, not strictly local but one could argue that the construction of the interstate highway system drastically changed the way we travel. How would we privatize something like road maintenance? I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, I argue it all the time.

It destroyed the passenger rail system, ignored following the rails killing downtown and creating the vanilla culture of box stores and franchises so we could always be at home away from home, multiplied cars, dirtied the air, and has left us trying to figure out grand 'expensive' schemes in which to try and revive rail to undo the problem of the auto...



... and it's main goal was to move Fort Riley either East or West. *snicker*

You know the original Interstate is now called "THe SUbmariners Highway?"

It goes through KANSAS! Ironic? no?

I know because I'm a half-white crazy Jayhawker!

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

von Mises.org (or was it Reason.com?) recently had something good about privatizing the roads.




You know what's good about that? You can fire the contractor...


Once you choose government, no matter how bad it gets, you're stuck with it and escalating taxes that always do less with more...
__________________
The more government is asked to do on your behalf, the less it can actually get accomplished.
A_J, the Stupid

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

By the way, off topic but way to go Congress- Dow is tumbling already.

You should try on the Doom and Gloom thread for size...

 

[markfifa0791]

Yeah, I argue it all the time.

It destroyed the passenger rail system, ignored following the rails killing downtown and creating the vanilla culture of box stores and franchises so we could always be at home away from home, multiplied cars, dirtied the air, and has left us trying to figure out grand 'expensive' schemes in which to try and revive rail to undo the problem of the auto...



... and it's main goal was to move Fort Riley either East or West. *snicker*

You know the original Interstate is now called "THe SUbmariners Highway?"

It goes through KANSAS! Ironic? no?

I know because I'm a half-white crazy Jayhawker!

Ha, interesting. Yes, the highway system, along with cars that can use it to its fullest, combined to wreck those things. But, as gas prices increase and hopefully we move back to mass transit such as trains (which I love) the local economies will flourish more.

 

[markfifa0791]

von Mises.org (or was it Reason.com?) recently had something good about privatizing the roads.




You know what's good about that? You can fire the contractor...


Once you choose government, no matter how bad it gets, you're stuck with it and escalating taxes that always do less with more...
__________________
The more government is asked to do on your behalf, the less it can actually get accomplished.
A_J, the Stupid

Very true, but government is a necessary evil...Unless you do away with it all together it will always be there to mess things up. But it's up to an active population to make it not do that. There are many good things about privatizing things, but I think it'd just be too difficult. But I should do more research.

 

[markfifa0791]

You should try on the Doom and Gloom thread for size...

I checked it out a little...that was just an aside, last time. Maybe.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Ha, interesting. Yes, the highway system, along with cars that can use it to its fullest, combined to wreck those things. But, as gas prices increase and hopefully we move back to mass transit such as trains (which I love) the local economies will flourish more.

But, what about privatizing road maintenance?

Already did that...

I lived on a private gold lake in KANSAS. We did our own roads... well...

Then again, KANSAS is still a place where they believe in the INDIVIDUAL, not the commune.



PS - it was down 255, now using the liberal economic calculus, it is actually up; good news, it could have been "worse..."
__________________
Political Realists see the world as it is: ... In this world laws are written for the lofty aim of "the common good" and then acted out in life on the basis of common greed...; a world where we are always moral and our enemies always immoral; a world where "reconciliation" means that when one side gets the power and the other side gets reconciled to it, then we have reconciliation.... In the world as it is, the solution of each problem inevitably creates a new one.
Saul David Alinsky
Rules for Radicals

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Very true, but government is a necessary evil...Unless you do away with it all together it will always be there to mess things up. But it's up to an active population to make it not do that. There are many good things about privatizing things, but I think it'd just be too difficult. But I should do more research.

"[W]hat limits ought to be set to the activity of the state," is "that the provision of security, against both external enemies and internal dissensions must constitute the purpose of the state, and occupy the circle of its activity."
Wilhelm von Humboldt

^^^^

Start with The Limits of State Action, DON'T GOOGLE!!!
Ishmael recommended it to me after 9-11 when I got really interested in economics and liberty...

__________________
Ivan and Igor were two dirt-poor Russian peasants; same amount of land, same out buildings, same everything. Except for one thing. Igor had a goat.
One night Fairy Godmother came to Ivan and told him he could have any one wish he cared to make.
Ivan was a careful man and thought for a great while and then he said, "I wish Igors' goat would die."
That is the modern American liberal.
Ishmael

 

[markfifa0791]

Already did that...

I lived on a private gold lake in KANSAS. We did our own roads... well...

Then again, KANSAS is still a place where they believe in the INDIVIDUAL, not the commune.



PS - it was down 255, now using the liberal economic calculus, it is actually up; good news, it could have been "worse..."
__________________
Political Realists see the world as it is: ... In this world laws are written for the lofty aim of "the common good" and then acted out in life on the basis of common greed...; a world where we are always moral and our enemies always immoral; a world where "reconciliation" means that when one side gets the power and the other side gets reconciled to it, then we have reconciliation.... In the world as it is, the solution of each problem inevitably creates a new one.
Saul David Alinsky
Rules for Radicals

I don't see it as difficult to physically maintain them, but just to make sure everyone pays their share. Or would it be a toll system? How did you pay for it?

Up is relative, I use liberal economic calculus, if you want to put it that way. I'd rather things be better than worse, but that doesn't make it good. If I'm expecting to lose $500 though and only lose $250, I'll be a happy man, at least until I remember I lost $250.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Home owner's association dues.

But you had an intimate relationship with your leadership and could put your hands and eyes on the books...


__________________
Nowhere has a Democracy ever worked well without a great measure of local government, providing a school of political training for the people at large as much as for their future leaders. It is only where responsibility can be learned and practiced in affairs with which most people are familiar, where there is awareness of one's neighbor rather than some theoretical knowledge of the needs of other people which guides action, that the ordinary man can take real part public affair because they concern the world he knows.
FA Hayek
The Road to Serfdom, Chapter 15 p. 234

The more distant and powerful your government, the more likely it is to be dominated and controlled by just a very small group of people.
A_J, the Stupid

When Government gets so powerful that its purchase price is cost effective, even imperative, to business, then business will purchase government indulgences.
A_J, the Stupid

 

[markfifa0791]

"[W]hat limits ought to be set to the activity of the state," is "that the provision of security, against both external enemies and internal dissensions must constitute the purpose of the state, and occupy the circle of its activity."
Wilhelm von Humboldt

^^^^

Start with The Limits of State Action, DON'T GOOGLE!!!
Ishmael recommended it to me after 9-11 when I got really interested in economics and liberty...

__________________
Ivan and Igor were two dirt-poor Russian peasants; same amount of land, same out buildings, same everything. Except for one thing. Igor had a goat.
One night Fairy Godmother came to Ivan and told him he could have any one wish he cared to make.
Ivan was a careful man and thought for a great while and then he said, "I wish Igors' goat would die."
That is the modern American liberal.
Ishmael

Well that is of course the theoretical aim of government, yes. Clearly that is not the current situation. We will never be able to keep government out of everything that we'd like to, unfortunately. And, in many ways, things are better off because they are involved. I know that's crazy-talk, but there are a lot of benefits.

 

[markfifa0791]

Home owner's association dues.

But you had an intimate relationship with your leadership and could put your hands and eyes on the books...


__________________
Nowhere has a Democracy ever worked well without a great measure of local government, providing a school of political training for the people at large as much as for their future leaders. It is only where responsibility can be learned and practiced in affairs with which most people are familiar, where there is awareness of one's neighbor rather than some theoretical knowledge of the needs of other people which guides action, that the ordinary man can take real part public affair because they concern the world he knows.
FA Hayek
The Road to Serfdom, Chapter 15 p. 234

The more distant and powerful your government, the more likely it is to be dominated and controlled by just a very small group of people.
A_J, the Stupid

When Government gets so powerful that its purchase price is cost effective, even imperative, to business, then business will purchase government indulgences.
A_J, the Stupid

HOA dues are just taxes by another name. That's how I see taxes anyway, or at least how they should be viewed.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

HOA dues are just taxes by another name. That's how I see taxes anyway, or at least how they should be viewed.

Yes, but the difference is in "locality."

The Federal government was never intended to manage local roads, nor take taxes from us for roads that are them used as economic blackmail to enforce behaviors they don't much approve of based upon the prevailing winds of the fickle altruist consensus of the day.


__________________
There will be no medieval magic when one turns to government to be their champion. Government is not a shining knight on a strong horse; it is a night mare.
A_J, the Stupid

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Well that is of course the theoretical aim of government, yes. Clearly that is not the current situation. We will never be able to keep government out of everything that we'd like to, unfortunately. And, in many ways, things are better off because they are involved. I know that's crazy-talk, but there are a lot of benefits.

One, we can, but it takes vigilance and education.

Once you begin looking to government as benefits, then there is no end to the benefit until it collapses under the weight of the plunderer's demands...
__________________
When the government gets powerful enough to fight over, the people will fight over it, and to the victors go the spoils, thus setting up the next fight.
A_J, the Stupid

The more government impedes upon the market with good intention and positive interference, the more expensive that market becomes and the maxim that you get what you pay for becomes outed as an out-and-out lie.
A_J, the Stupid

 

[markfifa0791]

Yes, but the difference is in "locality."

The Federal government was never intended to manage local roads, nor take taxes from us for roads that are them used as economic blackmail to enforce behaviors they don't much approve of based upon the prevailing winds of the fickle altruist consensus of the day.


__________________
There will be no medieval magic when one turns to government to be their champion. Government is not a shining knight on a strong horse; it is a night mare.
A_J, the Stupid

Well that's why we do have local taxes...And with the interstate it gets very complicated about who should pay for the upkeep. For instance when I lived an hour east of Chicago and would use the interstate to drive into town (when I didn't have time for the train) I'd be passing by many towns on the way to spend money in Chicago. Who should pay for the wear and tear then since my use generates no revenue for the cities/towns I am passing by?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

As for our current state of education...


If you quietly accept and go along no matter what your feelings are, ultimately you internalize what you're saying, because it's too hard to believe one thing and say another. *I can see it very strikingly in my own background. *Go to any elite university and you are usually speaking to very disciplined people, people who have been selected for obedience.
Noam Chomsky

 

[markfifa0791]

One, we can, but it takes vigilance and education.

Once you begin looking to government as benefits, then there is no end to the benefit until it collapses under the weight of the plunderer's demands...
__________________
When the government gets powerful enough to fight over, the people will fight over it, and to the victors go the spoils, thus setting up the next fight.
A_J, the Stupid

The more government impedes upon the market with good intention and positive interference, the more expensive that market becomes and the maxim that you get what you pay for becomes outed as an out-and-out lie.
A_J, the Stupid

My, you are poetic this morning! There is of course an end, as you say we must be vigilant and educated. Unfortunately right now the vigilant are not educated (for the most part) and the educated are not vigilant.