Mindfuck!! Explain it please.

[Little_Kitten]

Hi... i've been trying to read about it various places... But I still don't quite get it... Its something I find exciting and want to experiment with, but I can't seem to fully grasp the concept. Will any of you please direct me to some informative sites about it or explain it here, please?

Thanks alot.

 

[CutieMouse]

From answers.com

"The term mindfuck is also used in BDSM to describe scenes where the bottom may be fooled as to the nature of the activities being taken part in; for example, the bottom may have consented to taking part in a branding, and been blindfolded throughout that part of the scene, only to discover that in reality only very cold ice cubes were used (it can be hard to distinguish cold from hot), and no branding had actually occurred."

Think psychological BDSM, more than physical BDSM...

In The Loving Dominant, John Warren describes a scene with a Lover in which he did a rather elaborate mindfuck involving branding a partner.

He made sure a BBQ brand (W for a well done steak, if I remember correctly) was heating within sight of his bound Lover, went through all sorts of preperation things (swabbing with alcohol, testing the heat against her skin without touching, repeatedly asking is she was SURE she was ready to wear his mark, etc), and when it was "time" he blindfolded her, tightened her bonds, brought the branding iron close to her skin... and pressed an ice cube against the skin at the branding spot.

She was so mentally prepared to feel heat, her body felt the "burn" of the ice and she thought she'd been branded. If I remember correctly, she passed out, and woke up to a sterile dressing over the "brand", and he waited until she had "come down" from the high of being branded, before taking off the bandage and explaining things. (she was initially a bit pissed off at him, too LOL)

There are quite a few good mindfuck scenerios in Warren's book... he's rather gifted in that way.

 

[Yang4yin]

A really simple example of a mindfuck is if early in the day you were told that you will be punished like never before, but not told exactly when or how. The longer you wait, the more you imagine what could possibly happen.

Or, you're bound and blindfolded, and you start hearing crackling sounds, your partner says you're about to be connected to a car battery with jumper cables and the next thing you feel are nipple clamps being fastened to you.

Just a couple of examples.

 

[CutieMouse]

Oh I thought of another wicked one...

In the middle of uhhh... "things" Warren told a (rather new) partner that he was actually a sociopath who collected trophies from each "conquest" he made- the nipple of each woman he fucked, sliced from her breast as she climaxed. She didn't believe him and was calling bullshit (ruining the mood), so he got up, grabbed a jar of (rehydrating) dried mushrooms out of the frige, slammed it on the nightstand within eyesight, and started tracing a (fake/stage) knife over her body while having his way with her. Right as she started to climax, he pressed the tip against the edge of her nipple.


(Can you tell I adore mindfucks? They're so damned intellectual in nature... ahem.)

 

[Evil_Geoff]

So far the explanations and examples have been spot on.

Mindfucks are the essense of preparing the pyl to experience activity "X" (usually something that is outrageously dangerous) then doing something that simulates the activity without the element of danger (or with steps having been taken to reduce the element of danger to acceptable levels).

Example...

Friend had a slave who wanted to do a mummification scene... show the pyl the breathing tube that will be in place (plastic, about 2" long, about 2" in diameter) make the pyl bite on it, hold it in his mouth, etc... Mummifiation scene is taking place outside, near the pool people are swimmg splashing, playing in the water... pyl is wrapped from ankles to neck, totally immobilized... blindfold is wrapped in place, "breathing tube" is inserted in the mouth and the tube is wrapped in place, head is then wrapped in another layer of duct tape...

Friend hollers "Okay boys! Move him to the lounger!" at which point the pyl is hoisted in the air by 4 burly men... A few steps are taken then "OOPS!" stumble/tumble everyone ends up in the shallow end of the pool, including our mummified pyl... who is sucking air through a 6' long vacuum cleaner hose the end of which was being held carefully clear of the water by our sadistic Friend...

Mindfucks are GREAT!

 

[graceanne]

Mind fucks would just seriously PISS ME OFF. Plus ruin my trust of the person who did them.

 

[CutieMouse]

Mind fucks would just seriously PISS ME OFF. Plus ruin my trust of the person who did them.

That would be why they're considered a bit edgy.

I think part of my attraction to them is the gut wrenching, nerve wracking, heat racing, fear inducing, humiliation twitching wickedness of the mindfuck... it lets you do all sorts of scary things without as much risk of being permanently mutilated or dying or something...

 

[intothewoods]

From answers.com

"The term mindfuck is also used in BDSM to describe scenes where the bottom may be fooled as to the nature of the activities being taken part in; for example, the bottom may have consented to taking part in a branding, and been blindfolded throughout that part of the scene, only to discover that in reality only very cold ice cubes were used (it can be hard to distinguish cold from hot), and no branding had actually occurred."

Think psychological BDSM, more than physical BDSM...

In The Loving Dominant, John Warren describes a scene with a Lover in which he did a rather elaborate mindfuck involving branding a partner.

He made sure a BBQ brand (W for a well done steak, if I remember correctly) was heating within sight of his bound Lover, went through all sorts of preperation things (swabbing with alcohol, testing the heat against her skin without touching, repeatedly asking is she was SURE she was ready to wear his mark, etc), and when it was "time" he blindfolded her, tightened her bonds, brought the branding iron close to her skin... and pressed an ice cube against the skin at the branding spot.

She was so mentally prepared to feel heat, her body felt the "burn" of the ice and she thought she'd been branded. If I remember correctly, she passed out, and woke up to a sterile dressing over the "brand", and he waited until she had "come down" from the high of being branded, before taking off the bandage and explaining things. (she was initially a bit pissed off at him, too LOL)

There are quite a few good mindfuck scenerios in Warren's book... he's rather gifted in that way.

Omg omg omg omg....as someone who really wants to be branded but cannot be...loooooove this...

 

[intothewoods]

I'm glad you asked this question, Little Kitten. I had no idea the expression "mind fuck" included all this! I always used it to mean someone who's into emotional manipulation, just to be a fuckwad.

But some of these examples sound just lovely.

 

[CutieMouse]

Omg omg omg omg....as someone who really wants to be branded but cannot be...loooooove this...

It is rather brilliant... I believe the thought process behind that particular mindfuck was that she was begging to be branded, but he wasn't comfortable with the idea, so he figured out a way to create the "branding" without crossing either one's personal limits.



Edited to add:

I was thinking while in the shower, and mindfucks can often be as simple as carrying a different demeanor- being more stern and silent than usual, and letting the pyl's mind tick through all the possibilities as to why; being bound into a rather uncomfortable stress position/etc, and told that is how you'll be sleeping for the entire night (not necessarily that you will, but the illusion that you will); sleeping on the floor next to the bed can be a mindfuck; really honestly believing that a limit you're oh so not happy to approach, even might be crossed could be a mindfuck, if done properly...

 

[FurryFury]

I personally love the idea of mindfuck play. I don't believe it has to mean a loss of trust as long as you are aware your PYL might do such things and you consent this sort of play in theory. In fact, I consider it potentially quite delicious.

Some might say I dabbled in this sort of play, as outlined by the knife thing in my Priceless thread.

Fury

 

[ecstaticsub]

Edited to add:

I was thinking while in the shower, and mindfucks can often be as simple as carrying a different demeanor- being more stern and silent than usual, and letting the pyl's mind tick through all the possibilities as to why; being bound into a rather uncomfortable stress position/etc, and told that is how you'll be sleeping for the entire night (not necessarily that you will, but the illusion that you will); sleeping on the floor next to the bed can be a mindfuck; really honestly believing that a limit you're oh so not happy to approach, even might be crossed could be a mindfuck, if done properly...

This kind of mindfuck I can get into. The other kind would just get me angry. I don't like surprise parties, I don't like April Fool's jokes, I don't like being fooled or tricked at all.

 

[midwestyankee]

That would be why they're considered a bit edgy.

I think part of my attraction to them is the gut wrenching, nerve wracking, heat racing, fear inducing, humiliation twitching wickedness of the mindfuck... it lets you do all sorts of scary things without as much risk of being permanently mutilated or dying or something...

This is exactly where the appeal of the mindfuck lies for me. It's in the ability to create terror that is ultimately safe but never feels at all safe. Maybe I'm just a guy whose two biggest influences during adolescence were Hugh Hefner and Alfred Hitchcock.

The fact that very cold objects often feel like very hot objects makes for some fabulously terrifying mindfucks that are perfectly safe. I loved the scene in Warren's book where he takes a woman through a lengthy and elaborate initiation ceremony that ends in being fucked by the flaming cock of Satan himself. Of course, the "flaming cock" was simply a frozen dildo but the effect on the submissive was astoundingly powerful.

Ahh, the possibilities are nearly endless.

 

[shy slave]

I am not a fan of mind fucks, the examples here all scream at me as things I would not want to happen and would seriously angry if they did.

No erotic joy, just one flaming angry woman who would want to do serious damage to the person who thought it fun.

In many ways it reminds of the cruelty of bullying in schools.

Only interesting to some of the people involved.

I don't see it as a trust issue. If you trusted a PYL not to do those things, then the concept of the mind fuck would not work.
A mind fuck is a balancing act between thinking they would not do it and wondering if they might.
I do see it as a way of confusing a pyl and establishing a basis of uncertainty with trust which could creep into other areas of their relationship.

The trust I am interested in has no room for wondering whether they are following through with things they have said they will do. Nor is there any room for uncertainty. I either trust them, or I don't.

I prefer to be told what will happen and then have it happen.
At least then if I was excited by the prospect of hoses, knifes and mutilation I would not feel cheated when it did not occur.

I like things simple. Say what you are going to do, and then, at some point, do it.

Edit to add: 'The Flaming Cock of Satan' Oh please!
I feel very alone on planet reality.

 

[CutieMouse]

This kind of mindfuck I can get into. The other kind would just get me angry. I don't like surprise parties, I don't like April Fool's jokes, I don't like being fooled or tricked at all.

I do understand that ... the scenerio EG explained would be right 100% off my list of things I'd be anywhere near the thin line of ever considering being tolerant of, much less okay with. It would cross soooooooooooooooooooo many fear in a bad way places for me. LOL

I have a touch of claustrophobia; water makes me very very nervous due to something that happened in childhood. Mummification and breathing tubes and accidently being "dropped" into water would result in a full blown panic attack... which is why as much as I like mindfucks, I would never actually *do* a mindfuck, unless it was within a very well established relationship.

 

[Little_Kitten]

I am not a fan of mind fucks, the examples here all scream at me as things I would not want to happen and would seriously angry if they did.

No erotic joy, just one flaming angry woman who would want to do serious damage to the person who thought it fun.

In many ways it reminds of the cruelty of bullying in schools.

Only interesting to some of the people involved.

I don't see it as a trust issue. If you trusted a PYL not to do those things, then the concept of the mind fuck would not work.
A mind fuck is a balancing act between thinking they would not do it and wondering if they might.
I do see it as a way of confusing a pyl and establishing a basis of uncertainty with trust which could creep into other areas of their relationship.

The trust I am interested in has no room for wondering whether they are following through with things they have said they will do. Nor is there any room for uncertainty. I either trust them, or I don't.

I prefer to be told what will happen and then have it happen.
At least then if I was excited by the prospect of hoses, knifes and mutilation I would not feel cheated when it did not occur.

I like things simple. Say what you are going to do, and then, at some point, do it.

Edit to add: 'The Flaming Cock of Satan' Oh please!
I feel very alone on planet reality.

We all have our tastes
I haven't tried it before really, but it seems interesting.
But I can see that it could bring uncertainty to some relationships.... Guess It's a matter of telling when they can do it or not... or sumthing. I dunno.

But thanks everyone for the info

 

[intothewoods]

It seems to be a tricky thing, but I could see that you could discuss an idea generally, without discussing the specifics, and that would lay the groundwork nicely for a good mindfuck.

 

[shy slave]

We all have our tastes
I haven't tried it before really, but it seems interesting.
But I can see that it could bring uncertainty to some relationships.... Guess It's a matter of telling when they can do it or not... or sumthing. I dunno.

But thanks everyone for the info

I guess they are interesting to most people

Maybe, I am just a coward lol

 

[RawHumor]

So far the explanations and examples have been spot on.

Mindfucks are the essense of preparing the pyl to experience activity "X" (usually something that is outrageously dangerous) then doing something that simulates the activity without the element of danger (or with steps having been taken to reduce the element of danger to acceptable levels).

Example...

Friend had a slave who wanted to do a mummification scene... show the pyl the breathing tube that will be in place (plastic, about 2" long, about 2" in diameter) make the pyl bite on it, hold it in his mouth, etc... Mummifiation scene is taking place outside, near the pool people are swimmg splashing, playing in the water... pyl is wrapped from ankles to neck, totally immobilized... blindfold is wrapped in place, "breathing tube" is inserted in the mouth and the tube is wrapped in place, head is then wrapped in another layer of duct tape...

Friend hollers "Okay boys! Move him to the lounger!" at which point the pyl is hoisted in the air by 4 burly men... A few steps are taken then "OOPS!" stumble/tumble everyone ends up in the shallow end of the pool, including our mummified pyl... who is sucking air through a 6' long vacuum cleaner hose the end of which was being held carefully clear of the water by our sadistic Friend...

Mindfucks are GREAT!

Did you know the mummified person could theoretically suffocate in such a scenario?

 

[midwestyankee]

I guess they are interesting to most people

Maybe, I am just a coward lol

I doubt if they're interesting to most people (though perhaps many) and I do understand your dislike of them (well, I can certainly see the validity of it; understanding could only come from knowing you far better than we can possibly do here). I can see where the bottom on whom the mindfuck is being played might feel the victim - especially if it were happening within a casual play relationship or one where the partners have relatively little experience yet with each other. And that's not a place where I would ever want a sub to travel under my control.

My interest in mindfucks is with the mystery factor. It's something of an intellectual and creative challenge. I enjoy creating a mental set for my sub wherein she cannot be sure what to expect next and where she fears that the very next thing might stretch her boundaries in unknown ways. But - at the same time, she knows that I will only push against her boundaries from the inside and will not take her to places that we have not agreed to explore. She knows that I would never actually harm her but that still leaves a lot of room for mystery. And, to be candid, I've not played with any such mystery that involves fear of great harm such as the branding example that CM cited above. That's a matter of style, at least for now as I progress in my journey with her.

 

[shy slave]

I doubt if they're interesting to most people (though perhaps many) and I do understand your dislike of them (well, I can certainly see the validity of it; understanding could only come from knowing you far better than we can possibly do here). I can see where the bottom on whom the mindfuck is being played might feel the victim - especially if it were happening within a casual play relationship or one where the partners have relatively little experience yet with each other. And that's not a place where I would ever want a sub to travel under my control.

My interest in mindfucks is with the mystery factor. It's something of an intellectual and creative challenge. I enjoy creating a mental set for my sub wherein she cannot be sure what to expect next and where she fears that the very next thing might stretch her boundaries in unknown ways. But - at the same time, she knows that I will only push against her boundaries from the inside and will not take her to places that we have not agreed to explore. She knows that I would never actually harm her but that still leaves a lot of room for mystery. And, to be candid, I've not played with any such mystery that involves fear of great harm such as the branding example that CM cited above. That's a matter of style, at least for now as I progress in my journey with her.

That seems a much more comfortable mind fuck than what other have suggested.

Re-reading my orginal post I think it sounds as if I 'make' Andante give me a written list of what will happen!

I assure you that is not the case lol.

He does play with my mind, but not in the way of a mind fuck. It is a struggle to explain how he manages it, he just does. He has given me bombshell information about his plans at the end of a phone conversation and then ended the call. That was a heck of a mind fuck. He knew it would be. My poor brain was going over and over with questions and curiousity.

I do recall a time when he tied me to a fixed ladder and in the middle of flogging me, stopped, shouting 'Ok, boys you can come in now' and headed for the front door.

I laughed so much, and knew there would be no-one there. Nor did it spoil the headspace of being tied to a ladder and flogged!
It is the closest that I can recall that he has been to the kind of mind fuck he has done, as described in this thread.

Midwest I think you are right. it is about having experience of each other and knowing how far to push various elements.

Sorry kitten, I have not been helpful, but maybe what is a mind fuck to one person, is different to what is a mind fuck to someone else.

 

[JMohegan]

The best pair of posts I've ever read on the subject of mindfucks was written by Netzach on this thread last year.

You do have to be really careful how you deploy this kind of thing.

Any kind of a head game can be non productive verging on abuse.

If someone is trying their honest best to comply with your orders and has a certain kind of personality that takes things at face value, you do NOT fuck with that. You do NOT issue conflicting commands to see what they'll do, you do NOT pull the "oho tonight you get punished" card, you are clear, calm and honest -- exactly as you want them to be, and exactly as this type of personality always is.

You will piss this kind of a person off to the point where they will leave if you overindulge in psychodrama.

How playful is your partner? How comfortable with sarcasm, joking, practical jokes, and wickedness is your partner? How are they with surprises? Rollercoasters are a great litmus test too. Know some of this before you dive in.

and

I have one partner who thrives on this kind of thing and one who does not, I don't think it's always bad to play this way and I don't think it's always good.

How do I reconcile lying? He's my property. He can trust me to be honest with him when it counts and to tell as many little white lies and have as many omissions as I feel like it, when it's small piddly stuff. He accepts my definition of small and piddly because I am in charge. He understands that misinformation is for the purposes of heightened play and accepts that and also knows that during any serious discussions I'm being serious and honest. It's a trust thing.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Did you know the mummified person could theoretically suffocate in such a scenario?

Yes.

A person in any kind of mummification scene can theoretically suffocate. If the wrapping is too tight, for example, it can restict the ability of the chest and abdomen to expand enough for proper air exchange. The breathing tube may not clear enough carbon dioxide with each breath and so lead slowly to oxygen deprivation and carbon dioxide poisoning, if the pyl is too deep in the water the pressure (and panic) could prevent good air exchange, etc, etc, etc.

In this case, Friend is a very experienced Top, especially with edgier styles of play. She was very well aware of the particular safety issues of the scene, as well as psychological issues of the bottom. The pyl had expressed an ongoing interest in "water torture" scenes, has a serious love of mummification/bondage, etc. Friend didn't have a water wheel, but figured out a scene that would combine the elements she and pyl were looking for. The people playing in the pool at the time were aware of what would happen and were, in fact, "spotters" for the scene. The only person who was "surprised" was the pyl.

Edited to add: I don't think I will share the "buried alive" mindfuck that Friend cooked up...

 

[CutieMouse]

That seems a much more comfortable mind fuck than what other have suggested.

Re-reading my orginal post I think it sounds as if I 'make' Andante give me a written list of what will happen!

I assure you that is not the case lol.

He does play with my mind, but not in the way of a mind fuck. It is a struggle to explain how he manages it, he just does. He has given me bombshell information about his plans at the end of a phone conversation and then ended the call. That was a heck of a mind fuck. He knew it would be. My poor brain was going over and over with questions and curiousity.

I do recall a time when he tied me to a fixed ladder and in the middle of flogging me, stopped, shouting 'Ok, boys you can come in now' and headed for the front door.

I laughed so much, and knew there would be no-one there. Nor did it spoil the headspace of being tied to a ladder and flogged!
It is the closest that I can recall that he has been to the kind of mind fuck he has done, as described in this thread.

Midwest I think you are right. it is about having experience of each other and knowing how far to push various elements.

Sorry kitten, I have not been helpful, but maybe what is a mind fuck to one person, is different to what is a mind fuck to someone else.

See Rose, to *me* what you wrote (especially the bolded one) are good examples of mindfucks without all the elaborate stuff. Maybe it's a matter of degree, but there are a lot of things that (IMO) can be classified as "mindfucks" without going to the extremes- but that doesn't make it any less of a mindfuck.

 

[midwestyankee]

Yes.

<snip>

Edited to add: I don't think I will share the "buried alive" mindfuck that Friend cooked up...

Some of us might like to hear about this, though (if only out of intellectual curiosity).