Mind Games

[Shadowsdream]

Have you ever used manipulation as a mind game to get your own way. Wanting to deepen a relationship by appearing to back away from it in the hopes that the SO would put some extra energy into giving you more attention?
If yes...were you successful and was it worth the game?
If no...do you take responsibility for what you lost because of the mind game?

 

[Justina123]

Sir really enjoys mind games and he uses them frequently when we are playing, in that way manipulating my mental and physical reactions. But he has never, ever used it to manipulate the basic foundation of our relationship.

When I feel I need or want more attention, I simply find a respectful but honest way of saying so.

We are big on honesty. Sure, there are mind games in play time, but never about anything more than "play." I think if there were, it would permanently damage our trust and caring.

- justina

 

[wanton wonton]

Have you ever used manipulation as a mind game to get your own way. Wanting to deepen a relationship by appearing to back away from it in the hopes that the SO would put some extra energy into giving you more attention?
If yes...were you successful and was it worth the game?
If no...do you take responsibility for what you lost because of the mind game?

in a subtle way, we use manipulation all the time, even in vanilla life. playing coy or shy and unsure to make partner/SO affirm his desires, yes, guilty guilty guilty here. it pays off most of the time and when it doesn't, i've usually done it slyly enough so he doesn't realize it didn't work.
if i lose the mind game, the manipulative ploy, then yes, i take responsibility for the pain and rejection. that's how it's got to be.

 

[MissTaken]

How uncanny this thread was started, Shadowsdream.

It was only a few nights ago that a dear friend had suggested she pull away in order to "see if He notices."

As I explained to her, and I may be wrong, I felt that that is a tool many of us have used and have had to use in our vanilla relationships. I suggested that her vanilla thinking was conflicting with her D/s thinking and interfering with clear communication.



Yes, I have done this in relationships before D/s. When it didn't achieve the desired results, which was always, I kicked myself soundly in the butt and got on with it.

I feel that if I use manipulative tactics, no matter how much I need what I am trying to achieve with manipulation, it is not honest or open and it can be percieved as topping from the bottom. Both things are undesirable to me.

 

[wanton wonton]

hmm, i think of it as a way of non-verbal communication. yes, the manipulation aspect of it may appear to be topping from the bottom, but if channels are open between the partners, then the top will soon gain upper hand anyway. manipulation requires a certain level of intimacy for it to "work," and the tactics change as the relationship develops.

perhaps misstaken, what it boils down to is whether a person is manipulative or not, and then it applies in their vanilla and colored lives

 

[MissTaken]

hmm, i think of it as a way of non-verbal communication. yes, the manipulation aspect of it may appear to be topping from the bottom, but if channels are open between the partners, then the top will soon gain upper hand anyway. manipulation requires a certain level of intimacy for it to "work," and the tactics change as the relationship develops.

perhaps misstaken, what it boils down to is whether a person is manipulative or not, and then it applies in their vanilla and colored lives

Yes, of course.

It may simply become a dynamic of a relationship.

He may learn to recognize and actually enjoy some of the manipulation as it gives a Dom an opportunity to reexert his control?

I am not suggesting that what doesnt' work for me, might work for someone else. Truly. I just have never had good experiences with mind games.

 

[MystiqDrgn]

Mind games, induendos and manipulation

I think the "coy games" are one thing, but when you start using manipulation and other types of genre you enter a new area. You start becoming a SAM (Smart Ass Masochist) which is never appreactiated and often goes sour. If there is something you truly desire, the best and only way to achieve it (IMHO) is to ask. The answer may be no at the time, but that still lets them know what you desire.

That's my two cents worth. ~M~

 

[cellis]

We do not play those kinds of games. It would be detrimental to the relationship that we have.

If there is a problem or if I am feeling a certain way, I tell Him about it. He doesn't always respond the way I like but it is out there for Him to see.

The mind games that He plays are the ones that are designed to control and excite me... He loves doing that.

There is no pushing Him away so that He will come closer or any of that crap... Honestly, I have a friend that keeps telling me not to take His phone calls and make Him wait and not be so available for Him... she of course is alone because she doesn't know how to be honest and just tell someone how she feels. She is a great example of what not to do.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Directness vs. manipulation

I always tell submissives who are trying to develop a relationship, that I appreciate directness and not manipulation.

When you play mind games, it is just another way of "stacking the deck" in your favor to get a desired outcome. If is works at all it is only effective for the short term. Sooner or later the one who has been manipulated with become angry .

So I tell subs to always be direct and ask for what they want. They will always get an answer, but it may not be the one they expect.

 

[MystiqDrgn]

Re: Directness vs. manipulation

I always tell submissives who are trying to develop a relationship, that I appreciate directness and not manipulation.

When you play mind games, it is just another way of "stacking the deck" in your favor to get a desired outcome. If is works at all it is only effective for the short term. Sooner or later the one who has been manipulated with become angry .

So I tell subs to always be direct and ask for what they want. They will always get an answer, but it may not be the one they expect.

Very eloquently said Ebony. ~M~

 

[Shadowsdream]

Mind games are separate entities from mind fucks..which are meant to enhance a scene rather than manipulate a relationship.
Playing the * i am not good enough to be Yours* type of scenerio, after being an accepted SO...or an * i think You would be better off with an So that can give You more time than i can...or that You can give more time too* with your tongue in your cheek or fingers crossed behind your back...often leads to a boot in the butt out the door.
Anyone have any opinions on how a Dominant can also play the mind games that are not the mind fucks..and lose? If they lose the relationship should they take the responsibilty for the loss in honesty or blame the SO?

 

[MystiqDrgn]

Unfortunately I don't see how a dominant can "play" those little games without it either 1) becoming a "mindfuck" or 2) having devastating consequences to the relationship. The only way I see it can be done is if it is through "testing the sub". Most subs know they are but a word away from being tossed. Yet, they will play games. tsk tsk. What would happen if a Dom/me started stamping their feet saying "you aren't playing by the rules?" It's a catch 22 in any event. There may be room for it as individual relationships play a vital role in what can and can't be done within "their" relationship.

As tweetie bird says... "control is an illusion" ~M~

 

[lady-kat]

If yes...were you successful and was it worth the game?
If no...do you take responsibility for what you lost because of the mind game?

no, I was not successful....

responsibility? yes now perhaps. But at the time, many years ago, it was just a god awful painful lesson in what not to do.....

 

[MissTaken]

I am not sure if this falls into the discussion, but a Dominant who repeatedly uses certain tools for attention and building up isn't going to end up in good stead.

"I am not a good person, a good Dom," fingers crossed behind the back waiting for affirmation.

Chances are, I won't find him to be and yes, I don't have time to build up anyone who can't generally, feel confident without this sort of thing. Besides, as a submissive who pays attention to her Dom, if He feels a need to play games for attention and boosting, chances are I will feel like I haven't done what I need to do and my submission isn't appreciated.

It is better to say, "I need some attention," or "I prefer or need this *insert* from you."

Other destructive mind games might include a Dominant who uses poly or play parnters as a threat or device to show a submissive she isn't serving well. To that end, communicate.

Do Dominants find themselves confused in terms of when to communicate openly or when to teach by task, assignment or games>?

Sometimes, "Games" can be good tools to learn from, but only in non hurtful, non destructive contexts.

"I like blondes," is no way to suggest she color her hair.
Saying, "You would look great as a blond and it would please me if you colored your hair," is a far better approach.

Just my ramblings....

 

[MystiqDrgn]

Besides, as a submissive who pays attention to her Dom, if He feels a need to play games for attention and boosting, chances are I will feel like I haven't done what I need to do and my submission isn't appreciated.

It is better to say, "I need some attention," or "I prefer or need this *insert* from you."

Other destructive mind games might include a Dominant who uses poly or play parnters as a threat or device to show a submissive she isn't serving well. To that end, communicate.

Do Dominants find themselves confused in terms of when to communicate openly or when to teach by task, assignment or games>?

Sometimes, "Games" can be good tools to learn from, but only in non hurtful, non destructive contexts.

"I like blondes," is no way to suggest she color her hair.
Saying, "You would look great as a blond and it would please me if you colored your hair," is a far better approach.

Just my ramblings....

You ramble very well. Anyone who is seeking attention (Dom/me, submissive, slave) isn't getting something from the relationship. It isn't a time to play games but a time to talk. ~M~

 

[cellis]

It seems to me that Dominants who are deliberately inconsistant, who continually say that they will do something and then back out or not follow through create the kind of confict that Shadowsdream is talking about. I need consistancy in my relationship... I need my dominant to be dependable.. to me that is the ultimate "mind fuck" the lead me on and not follow through... I could not be with someone who does that to me... it is not fun, it is not erotic and it is really quite painful on an emotional level.

 

[WillowPuss]

Have you ever used manipulation as a mind game to get your own way. Wanting to deepen a relationship by appearing to back away from it in the hopes that the SO would put some extra energy into giving you more attention?
If yes...were you successful and was it worth the game?
If no...do you take responsibility for what you lost because of the mind game?

I might possibly be a little guilty of this - but not intentionally. I would never intentionally engage in mind games.

There are times when I so long/need to say something, but am very unsure of the likely response ... so I might try a 'back-door' method. This is often because I cannot seem to find the words I need or want to express clearly what it is I am trying to say. (like now, it seems! *sigh*)

I have learnt (to my cost - or rather to the cost of many days turmoil) that the 'front-door' method is much better in the long run.

If, because of my ham-fisted approach, a different outcome had occured it would have been totally and utterly my own fault for not trusting my instinct and not trusting the other party.

 

[WillowPuss]

It seems to me that Dominants who are deliberately inconsistant, who continually say that they will do something and then back out or not follow through create the kind of confict that Shadowsdream is talking about. I need consistancy in my relationship... I need my dominant to be dependable.. to me that is the ultimate "mind fuck" the lead me on and not follow through... I could not be with someone who does that to me... it is not fun, it is not erotic and it is really quite painful on an emotional level.

Ohhhhhhh I so agree with this cellis!

I need a Dom/me who acts exactly as they say they will act. That way I feel safe and secure and can sink even further into submission.

 

[Ebonyfire]

It seems to me that Dominants who are deliberately inconsistant, who continually say that they will do something and then back out or not follow through create the kind of confict that Shadowsdream is talking about. I need consistancy in my relationship... I need my dominant to be dependable.. to me that is the ultimate "mind fuck" the lead me on and not follow through... I could not be with someone who does that to me... it is not fun, it is not erotic and it is really quite painful on an emotional level.

Exactly!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Focus

Do Dominants find themselves confused in terms of when to communicate openly or when to teach by task, assignment or games>?

I have been accused of thinking I am infallible or perfect, but that is not true.

I am confident and I have focus.

I know what I want, and I know who to get it.

You do learn a few things when you get to be 52 years old.

If I cannot get the results I want at this point in time, when will I?

I use open and direct communication. It works for Me.

 

[cellis]

Re: Focus

I have been accused of thinking I am infallible or perfect, but that is not true.

I am confident and I have focus.

I know what I want, and I know who to get it.

You do learn a few things when you get to be 52 years old.

If I cannot get the results I want at this point in time, when will I?

I use open and direct communication. It works for Me.

Oh Ebony this is so true. Open and direct communication to me is the cornerstone of developing trust and an honest relationship.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Originally posted by MissTaken
Do Dominants find themselves confused in terms of when to communicate openly or when to teach by task, assignment or games>?


I must say that confusion in how why or when to Dominate whether in teaching or playing is not an emotion I am troubled with.
Perhaps like Eb it is the age/experience level.
Communication should and is always open and honest with Me...anything less would test My integrity. It would be a test I would not pass if the communication was not honest...even brutally so.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Originally posted by MissTaken
Do Dominants find themselves confused in terms of when to communicate openly or when to teach by task, assignment or games>?


I must say that confusion in how why or when to Dominate whether in teaching or playing is not an emotion I am troubled with.
Perhaps like Eb it is the age/experience level.
Communication should and is always open and honest with Me...anything less would test My integrity. It would be a test I would not pass if the communication was not honest...even brutally so.

I would think that open comunication is not in opposition to any form of play. How can clear information and direction through communication be out of place?

I vote for open communication in all interactions. anything else can lead to passive-aggression.

 

[Justina123]

Most subs know they are but a word away from being tossed. Yet, they will play games. tsk tsk.

Oh, if I thought I was "just a word away from being tossed", I would not be in the relationship. In my opinion, that is an awful way to dominate! I know there is one type of consistent behavior that Sir just absolutely cannot countenace- arguing- and, if I were to be argumentative, yes, that would be the end. But not just once! The kind of insecurity implied by being a "word away from being tossed"... I personally just couldn't handle. I couldn't trust, honor, and obey someone if I were that insecure.

-justina

 

[WynEternal]

I'm more of an open communication type person. Manipulative mind games always seemed a dishonest way to let someone know what I want, or to let me know what is expected of me. For me, manipulation hurts worse than a slap on the face.

When I was with Mistress, if I had thoughts or feelings I could not verbally communicate, I wrote it down. That's what my journals were for; although I can remember one instance where my written communication was left unspoken between us.

Often times, she knew my thoughts better than I did so any form of deception would be an insult.