Mental Illness

[LallyH]

Thanks for the various opinions, everyone - I appreciate your time It's been very helpful with my decision about what to do next.

I think a chat to his neighbour (thanks CnC) is a great idea for a first step, although he is a retired priest himself (it's a set of apartments for sick/retired clergy), in his nineties and slightly confused so I will have to tread carefully. They seem to get together every morning with a couple of others so maybe I could drop in then so that it wasn't specifically a visit to him, and I could excuse myself easily if it troubled him.

I had been thinking of taking some home baked goodies (thanks Curious) - he's lost so much weight and says he can't be bothered cooking or eating. Maybe a selection of small, easy to eat, sweet goodies might tempt him to eat a little. Definitely something to consider.

The church, as in his fellow clergy, do seem to try to support each other, Elle, but I don't know why he doesn't seem to be getting better with whatever medical/psychological treatment has been arranged. I know nothing about depression so I don't know how it can or should be treated. I do know that his brother and sister, who both live locally, are doctors so I'm sure they will be doing what they can. Maybe he is just so sick, he's not recovering

 

[Beth87]

Development of PTSD has nothing to do with strength (or lack of) nor is it an indicator of manhood. But thank you for helping to highlight ridiculous myths. It gives us an opportunity to educate others who want to know more.

And yes, drug/alcohol/sex addiction can all be indicators of unresolved PTSD.

Everyone who experiences a trauma will experience PTSD symptoms during first month after event. Everyone. Some people don't go on to develop full blown PTSD and some do. The why some and not others may never be answered but we do know it's a brain injury. Plus side, it's potentially treatable.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Development of PTSD has nothing to do with strength (or lack of) nor is it an indicator of manhood. But thank you for helping to highlight ridiculous myths. It gives us an opportunity to educate others who want to know more.

And yes, drug/alcohol/sex addiction can all be indicators of unresolved PTSD.

Everyone who experiences a trauma will experience PTSD symptoms during first month after event. Everyone. Some people don't go on to develop full blown PTSD and some do. The why some and not others may never be answered but we do know it's a brain injury. Plus side, it's potentially treatable.

I guess I wasted all those years in school and practice and military. For just $19 a month, just 63 cents a day, I coulda had the tee shirt and blanket and been cured of cooties. Tell your comrades I say theyre charlatans and frauds.

 

[FurryFury]

This sort of comment doesn't belong in my thread.

With your supposed background you could be helpful but instead you insist on being someone who attacks rather than supports.

Please make an "I'm a jerk and will talk nonsense thread" for the rest of your comments. Thanks.

Until the government usurped PTSD to use for addicts unfit for military service it was for real victims of catastrophies like storms, shipwrecks, tsunamis, earth quakes, and horrendous violence.

Its now a general excuse for losers.

 

[gluttonne]

The traumatic stressor(s) that precede PTSD can be as varied as the life experiences of those who have it. Most people without affective disorders will have experienced a number of memorable traumas by the time they reach adulthood, but whether or not said trauma produces the level of functional obstruction to qualify a person as suffering from PTSD is determined by subjective experience, neurochemistry, the kind of support network and/or coping mechanisms said person can utilize, and other factors that cannot easily be predetermined. An experience that seems run-of-the-mill for one person could lead to chronic inability to function for another.

Nobody has the right to invalidate the experience or worldview of another in any useful sense. The dismissive attitude that many veterans face when they do seek help is a major contributor to suicide, violence and other behavioural abnormalities that might have been prevented by making a real connection with peers or professional counselors.

There is a huge difference between coddling attention-seekers with traumatic claims and offering support to people who need it to be able to function normally. Anyone who cannot tell the difference is not qualified for an advisory role in the mental health profession, no matter what their education or life experience credentials may indicate.

The ignorant attitude that all people with addiction issues are automatically losers who created their own misery out of weakness or incurable character flaws is the same attitude that has created the largest incarcerated population on Earth (the US), a slew of narco-terror states with an increasing refugee population (nations south of the US as well as parts of Asia and Africa), and a trillion-plus dollar "War on Drugs" that incentivizes organized criminality and brutality at the expense particularly of the young lives it purports to protect.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This sort of comment doesn't belong in my thread.

With your supposed background you could be helpful but instead you insist on being someone who attacks rather than supports.

Please make an "I'm a jerk and will talk nonsense thread" for the rest of your comments. Thanks.

I'm right though. PTSD is now what the military uses to avoid bad conduct discharges and loss of benefits. When the veteran is discharged for alcohol and drug misconduct they get no services. So the military now discharges these miscreants as Medical Discharge PTSD. I read recently many are suing DOD for exposing them to alcoholism with on post sales of alcohol.

I'm not obligated to support such misfits. I support real victims of misfortune and inhumane treatment. There's a huge difference between the vet who suffers egregious wounds and the pussy who cant cope with one Monday each week.

Pull your head from your bleeding heart.

 

[Beth87]

Unless you're the one actually assessing these vets, you can't say for sure what their diagnosis is. The insurance based treatment plan in the U.S. contributes to a particular diagnosis over another sometimes (from speaking with patients) but never in so far as something completely different.

lying, exaggerating "attention seeking" can be part of a person's psychopathology but it can also be the result of a system unable to do anything but put out fires. I spend time actually reassuring patients that support will not be withdrawn if they start to get better.

I encourage people to ignore the tabloid bs.

 

[desertslave]

Unless you're the one actually assessing these vets, you can't say for sure what their diagnosis is. The insurance based treatment plan in the U.S. contributes to a particular diagnosis over another sometimes (from speaking with patients) but never in so far as something completely different.

lying, exaggerating "attention seeking" can be part of a person's psychopathology but it can also be the result of a system unable to do anything but put out fires. I spend time actually reassuring patients that support will not be withdrawn if they start to get better.

I encourage people to ignore the tabloid bs.

One of my 'fellow travelers' when I was inpatient a few weeks ago was gentleman in his late 50s, rather feisty and pithy (reminded me much of Master LOL), who had lost his job due to a mysterious illness. It began with tremors in his legs, then shooting pains, then numbness. When he could no longer stand safely, he was fired even though he was an excellent employee when not on his feet. Before his insurance was taken away (the whole concept infuriates me) he went to several doctors and even a shrink to try to figure out what was wrong. NOBODY could diagnose him correctly. He lost his job, lost his home and one night, in desperation, he slowly and painfully dragged himself out of the alleyway where he'd been 'living' and cut his wrists in hope that someone would find him and get him to a hospital.

Luckily it worked! He kept patiently explaining to people (he said) that he wasn't particularly seeking death, he was doing something suitably dramatic so that he didn't die in those circumstances. The interesting thing is that after seven minutes of intake interview with one of the inpatient psychiatrists (who had also studied a great deal of neurology), he got the proper diagnosis and started on the proper medication. It took about a week for it to kick in, but it worked. He completely irritated the therapists, because he refused to back down on the fact that hurting himself was the best thing he could have done and that he had no regrets. It made sense to several of us that, sometimes, desperate times call for equally desperate actions. I think that all some of them could see was a cranky older man who was furious with the world.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Unless you're the one actually assessing these vets, you can't say for sure what their diagnosis is. The insurance based treatment plan in the U.S. contributes to a particular diagnosis over another sometimes (from speaking with patients) but never in so far as something completely different.

lying, exaggerating "attention seeking" can be part of a person's psychopathology but it can also be the result of a system unable to do anything but put out fires. I spend time actually reassuring patients that support will not be withdrawn if they start to get better.

I encourage people to ignore the tabloid bs.

Like I said, I wasted every year from 1967, and all those tens of thousands of dollars, and the expert supervision, not to mention the 1000s of patients I interviewed, when all I needed was your expertise. What a fool I was. They oughta sue me for malpractice.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

One of my 'fellow travelers' when I was inpatient a few weeks ago was gentleman in his late 50s, rather feisty and pithy (reminded me much of Master LOL), who had lost his job due to a mysterious illness. It began with tremors in his legs, then shooting pains, then numbness. When he could no longer stand safely, he was fired even though he was an excellent employee when not on his feet. Before his insurance was taken away (the whole concept infuriates me) he went to several doctors and even a shrink to try to figure out what was wrong. NOBODY could diagnose him correctly. He lost his job, lost his home and one night, in desperation, he slowly and painfully dragged himself out of the alleyway where he'd been 'living' and cut his wrists in hope that someone would find him and get him to a hospital.

Luckily it worked! He kept patiently explaining to people (he said) that he wasn't particularly seeking death, he was doing something suitably dramatic so that he didn't die in those circumstances. The interesting thing is that after seven minutes of intake interview with one of the inpatient psychiatrists (who had also studied a great deal of neurology), he got the proper diagnosis and started on the proper medication. It took about a week for it to kick in, but it worked. He completely irritated the therapists, because he refused to back down on the fact that hurting himself was the best thing he could have done and that he had no regrets. It made sense to several of us that, sometimes, desperate times call for equally desperate actions. I think that all some of them could see was a cranky older man who was furious with the world.

A psychotic patient walked in one day to make us aware of a dead body on the lawn. No one believed her because she was so psychotic most of the time. But she was right. A patient left, ate all his meds, and died.

I knew schizophrenic patients who died of brain cancers.

MDs often get it wrong. Mine sent me for a kidney test the other day. My kidneys are excellent.

Sometimes patients get it right, most of the time they do not. Its why youre a moron to offer a low probability success as the way to go.

MDs play the odds. Medicine aint HOUSE.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[desertslave]

MDs play the odds. Medicine aint HOUSE.

The good doctors know enough to know that they don't know it all. Medicine is still a process of deduction; eliminate the most likely and work your way down from there. At the same time, patients need to be proactive and persistent, which many are not. Of course, the cost of quality health care often makes that problematic.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The good doctors know enough to know that they don't know it all. Medicine is still a process of deduction; eliminate the most likely and work your way down from there. At the same time, patients need to be proactive and persistent, which many are not. Of course, the cost of quality health care often makes that problematic.

When I was a larval psychologist in the 60s medicine was very different from today, I discussed this with my MD on Wednesday. She's young and all she knows is medicine as it is, and MDs aren't expected to diagnose, theyre expected to test and collect results and let a computer decide.

I come from the Old School where you learn what a diagnosis means. Today its built on shifting sand and political. Something like PTSD began life as physical concussion trauma from close proximity explosions. I experienced such events in Vietnam. I know what its like. Its like being so sick you cant move or feel or think or nuthin. And it passes if there is no lasting neurological damage.

Then they added natural stressors like storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, and such cataclysmic events that usually destroy our lives, then shipwrecks and air wrecks and car wrecks, then social horrors like mass murders by whack jobs and Nazis and serial killers.

Homesick for mom is now included. Social rejection for changing from lesbian to straight now qualifies. Everyone has a right to be contented, and prom gown angst is cause to go into hospital. I say non sense. Diagnoses are meant to capture the egregious problems NOT what we usta call problems of ordinary life like repossessed cars, arrests for dui, bad checks, illicit love.

And that's where I come from. Grow up is my motto.

 

[FurryFury]

You are NOT correct or accurate. You are a mean and ignorant troll.

I'm right though. PTSD is now what the military uses to avoid bad conduct discharges and loss of benefits. When the veteran is discharged for alcohol and drug misconduct they get no services. So the military now discharges these miscreants as Medical Discharge PTSD. I read recently many are suing DOD for exposing them to alcoholism with on post sales of alcohol.

I'm not obligated to support such misfits. I support real victims of misfortune and inhumane treatment. There's a huge difference between the vet who suffers egregious wounds and the pussy who cant cope with one Monday each week.

Pull your head from your bleeding heart.

 

[FurryFury]

I truly wish there was an ignore button for jerks who insist on attacking people in a place that otherwise has been nothing but support.

 

[FurryFury]

Had another during a performance this week at 54. Just. Kept. Going. Which is what I always do.

I hate 'eyegraines!' They're scary, distracting, and always make it incredibly difficult to just think. I got one in the middle of the supermarket, once, and could barely get through the checkout and out to my car.

Fortunately, they seemed to be hormone-related. As age encroaches I've learned that's one of the perks.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You are NOT correct or accurate. You are a mean and ignorant troll.

I'm right as rain and I keep up with my profession. Bleeding hearts such as you keep people weak and sick.

I exist to stand up to you and accuse you of hurtful error.

 

[FurryFury]

Supporting people, encouraging them to get help. That is not making them or keeping them weak and sick.

What IS weak and sick is picking on people who need support and thinking your toxicity is right or can prevail.

I'm right as rain and I keep up with my profession. Bleeding hearts such as you keep people weak and sick.

I exist to stand up to you and accuse you of hurtful error.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Supporting people, encouraging them to get help. That is not making them or keeping them weak and sick.

What IS weak and sick is picking on people who need support and thinking your toxicity is right or can prevail.

I'm expert at something called Ordeal Therapy, Jay Haley invented it. Its designed to put patients thru hell for a quick fix. I usta warn sad, depressed loser patients that they'd go home fixed but despise me forever. It works well with suicides. One man told me....when you finished with me I wanted to kill you! not me. Its brutal to observe but it works. Like Marine Corps boot camp compressed into a day.

https://secure.aidcvt.com/chp/ProdD...HP&Type=SB&SUBSEL=CHP.PSY&Title=Psychotherapy

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The point with stressors and impact on the individual in not what the stressor is but the amount of impact it had on the individual.

I set out a brief experiment at the uni I worked at ( research and lecturing) for a short while to show the way we collected these results was not perfect. Stressors are standardised to limit variables ( obviously) but individuals responses are not standardised so there is still a variable. Now, there is no reasonable way round that usually but experiment design can remember this and consider it. When telling people to 'toughen up' etc its failed to be acknowledged the biochemical situation that might be playing ping pong with their emotions. tHis was my subject professionally and more recently my experience personally.

I've seen many a horse have a freak out over a crisp/ chip packet. A powerful creature who could run, has seen plenty of chip packets before and yet....they often freak out at them. If humans similarly sometimes fail in aspects of modern life, and become, sad and depressed, or aggressive, have failure to conform into acceptable social behaviour towards others in different settings.

its interesting that we, who feel well versed in some of these areas often fail to see the signs of ill health or imbalance in ourselves, huh? I was totally rational, I felt, setting up my household for running after my imminent demise, when I had a couple of medical tests for one of MY 'pet' hormones for physical medical rather than mental health reasons ( though it plays both strings) and it was rather high. Combined with a high stress situation I have that's ongoing and my consultant physician said " honestly, people in your situation cannot hold up the world forever without something giving"


Every year we learn more about lifestyle, nutrition, daylight etc interaction with mental health. We already know phenomenal amounts more than we did in the 1970s about biochem, and more than we did in 2000. My last published collaborative study is being misinterpreted by commercial companies all over the show to sell crud to people that's NOT what the study showed. And findings have moved on so much since then! I'm left behind

The same flame that tempers steel, melts butter; and what was hot in the 80s is VERY NOT now. Gay was a mental disorder when I started, moms made their boys schizophrenic, and Harry Stack Sullivan had his techs beat up schizophrenics 'to connect with them.' Sugar and dyes caused hyperactivity. Etc. There are no neurotics today. And you cant catch what insurance companies/medicare wont pay for. Make PTSD a 'V code' disorder and it will vanish overnite. Its all political and du jour.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, your argument fails when you consider that mental health treatment does not begin and end within the American health system. Thus, the boundaries you are considering do not apply everywhere. This might mean some things might not be considered and treated all places but that others might be.

As you say, lots of the thinking when you started is very outdated. Some might be good old common sense and tied into other areas of medicine. I believe dentists have a lot to say about increasing sugar consumption and snacking between meals.

So whats the fucking point of treatment? Make work for numnutz.

About 1990 the government hopped aboard the craziness of allowing patients to act as treatment partners at my hospital. These people usta invade my ER and wanna see my patient files (I kept a one year chrono med file for ER referrals). I kicked their asses out every time. And their therapists whined about me, but no one ever made me alter my policy.

My attitude is: Fix yourself or get the hell outta the way.

 

[desertslave]

So whats the fucking point of treatment? Make work for numnutz.

About 1990 the government hopped aboard the craziness of allowing patients to act as treatment partners at my hospital. These people usta invade my ER and wanna see my patient files (I kept a one year chrono med file for ER referrals). I kicked their asses out every time. And their therapists whined about me, but no one ever made me alter my policy.

My attitude is: Fix yourself or get the hell outta the way.

Thank all the gods that people like you are retired and 'outta the way!!!'

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thank all the gods that people like you are retired and 'outta the way!!!'

Three people are alive thanks to me. Youre not stupid so stop pretenduing to be a moron. Some people need their asses kissed, and most need their asses kicked.

And I want you to do something with that story you wrote. Its damn good and begs for more.

Over and out.