LJ_Reloaded
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- Apr 3, 2010
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But that ain’t necessarily a bad thing.
First, let’s talk about the major players in the battle of the sexes. Many people aren’t typically aware of this, but there are in fact three very distinct groups at play here.
Traditionalism (example here) is the belief in arbitrarily assigned and mandatory gender roles for men and women. Men do the work and risk their lives, while women tend the home front and all that. This is the group that strives to ensure that “barefoot and pregnant” is still an all but mandatory thing for womankind. And of course these same people believe that men are expendable in battle and that conscription of men aka the draft is necessary for society’s survival. And so on. Traditionalists have the least amount of variance and tend to stick to their beliefs - there’s very little difference between one and another. Traditionalists vary, however, in how they react to feminists. Some are dismissive, while in rare cases they can be downright nasty and, in even rarer cases, violent. It was Republican Traditionalists Richard Mourdock (GOP Senatorial candidate in 2012) and Rick Santorum (GOP Senatorial Candidate in 2012 and former GOP Presidential hopeful) who, for instance, said that “Rape babies are gifts from God.”
Feminism believes that women should be free from arbitrarily assigned and mandatory gender roles and that they should have the same rights as men. There’s not much else to say about what feminism is. Unfortunately feminism has an Al Qaeda problem: feminist zealots who pollute the cause with corruption and hypocrisy. Their outright disdain for women in burqas and stay at home moms, their death threats against anti-feminists, demands for special rights for women (such as fighting against gender-neutral rape laws), and their frequent male bashing, are among the millions of examples. This is to say there is a wide amount of variation between feminist purists (we might call them egalitarian or equity feminists) and the zealots (whom we also know as gender feminists). A tiny handful of feminist zealots on the fringe have also proven to be downright violent - most famously, Valerie Solanas was a feminist zealot who shot Andy Warhol after writing her “SCUM” (Society for the Cutting Up of Men) manifesto. She was far from the last example. (See: Erin Pizzey.)
Men’s Liberation, on the other hand, follows the same path as Feminism; namely, that men should be free from arbitrarily assigned gender roles and that they should have the same rights as women. These rights include not having to be conscripted, a ban on male genital mutilation aka circumcision, equal rights in divorce and child custody laws (which strongly favor women), and so on. Men’s Liberation activists, also called Men’s Rights Activists or MRAs, have distinct amounts of variation. Practically all MRAs are purists - namely, they eschew mandatory and arbitrary gender roles for men and women alike, and they tend to openly oppose support laws that assign special rights to either men or women. However, the variation occurs in how they react to feminists. There have been death threats issued by a tiny handful of fringe MRAs against feminists, for instance. Big Red (apparently known on Tumblr as STFUEVERYTHING) and Anita “Tropes Vs Women” Sarkeesian are two of a number of feminists who have received both rape threats and death threats, presumably from MRAs. There has likely been acts of violence by MRAs, just as with the other two groups.
The truth is, in practice, that there is less sunlight between Feminist activists and Traditionalist activists, than between these groups and MRAs. Feminists and Traditionalists hold the same intolerant attitudes about porn. In fact, then-Attorney General Edwin Meese and his anti-porn campaign in the 1980s, had great support from feminist activists. Feminists have been silent about the Draft / Selective Service. The only lawsuit that is going on now against Selective Service is from the National Coalition for Men. Feminists are quite slow to attack traditional gender roles that favor women - for instance, modern feminists have said very little about hypergamy (a woman’s tendency to seek men above her socioeconomic scale for mating), and are constantly fighting MRAs over reforms to spousal support and child custody laws which also happen to favor women. Traditionalists also fight MRAs over the same issues. Traditionalists oppose gender-neutral rape laws, as do feminists.
Traditionalists pursue arbitrary and mandatory gender roles out of an agenda of infantalizing women. Feminists of today defend or ignore many examples of these same gender roles because they benefit women. Their motives may be different, but their roads lead to the same destination.
The only group that does not play well with the others is the Men’s Liberation movement. MRAs do not typically care if women enter “traditionally men’s” jobs - traditionalists routinely grouse about that. MRAs have offered far less resistance than Traditionalists about women in military combat roles: as long as she can pass the same tests as the men, MRAs are all for it. MRAs oppose Conscription and Selective Service - putting them frequently, almost violently at odds with Traditionalists. MRAs support equality in child custody laws, which has brought them into countless courtroom battles with feminists. Traditionalists and feminists alike support continuing the practice of State-sanctioned and enforced paternity fraud, while MRAs are adamantly in favor of putting an end to it. Traditionalists and feminists laugh at domestic violence against men (see Saturday Night Live’s Tiger Woods parody, or Sharon Osbourne’s infamous Catherine Kieu episode on The Talk); MRAs do not laugh at that, nor do they laugh at domestic violence against women. MRAs certainly do not play the “I oppose gender roles except those that benefit men” game.
Basically, the Traditionalists support reviving Patriarchal society, while Men’s Liberation activists adamantly oppose it because of the tragic efficiency by which the Patriarchy disposes of men. The two groups do not get along, but they also tend to keep their distance. This is not going to be the case forever. It is likely that the animosity between MRAs and Feminists will become a mere sideshow when MRAs and Traditionalists decide to deal with each other.
First, let’s talk about the major players in the battle of the sexes. Many people aren’t typically aware of this, but there are in fact three very distinct groups at play here.
Traditionalism (example here) is the belief in arbitrarily assigned and mandatory gender roles for men and women. Men do the work and risk their lives, while women tend the home front and all that. This is the group that strives to ensure that “barefoot and pregnant” is still an all but mandatory thing for womankind. And of course these same people believe that men are expendable in battle and that conscription of men aka the draft is necessary for society’s survival. And so on. Traditionalists have the least amount of variance and tend to stick to their beliefs - there’s very little difference between one and another. Traditionalists vary, however, in how they react to feminists. Some are dismissive, while in rare cases they can be downright nasty and, in even rarer cases, violent. It was Republican Traditionalists Richard Mourdock (GOP Senatorial candidate in 2012) and Rick Santorum (GOP Senatorial Candidate in 2012 and former GOP Presidential hopeful) who, for instance, said that “Rape babies are gifts from God.”
Feminism believes that women should be free from arbitrarily assigned and mandatory gender roles and that they should have the same rights as men. There’s not much else to say about what feminism is. Unfortunately feminism has an Al Qaeda problem: feminist zealots who pollute the cause with corruption and hypocrisy. Their outright disdain for women in burqas and stay at home moms, their death threats against anti-feminists, demands for special rights for women (such as fighting against gender-neutral rape laws), and their frequent male bashing, are among the millions of examples. This is to say there is a wide amount of variation between feminist purists (we might call them egalitarian or equity feminists) and the zealots (whom we also know as gender feminists). A tiny handful of feminist zealots on the fringe have also proven to be downright violent - most famously, Valerie Solanas was a feminist zealot who shot Andy Warhol after writing her “SCUM” (Society for the Cutting Up of Men) manifesto. She was far from the last example. (See: Erin Pizzey.)
Men’s Liberation, on the other hand, follows the same path as Feminism; namely, that men should be free from arbitrarily assigned gender roles and that they should have the same rights as women. These rights include not having to be conscripted, a ban on male genital mutilation aka circumcision, equal rights in divorce and child custody laws (which strongly favor women), and so on. Men’s Liberation activists, also called Men’s Rights Activists or MRAs, have distinct amounts of variation. Practically all MRAs are purists - namely, they eschew mandatory and arbitrary gender roles for men and women alike, and they tend to openly oppose support laws that assign special rights to either men or women. However, the variation occurs in how they react to feminists. There have been death threats issued by a tiny handful of fringe MRAs against feminists, for instance. Big Red (apparently known on Tumblr as STFUEVERYTHING) and Anita “Tropes Vs Women” Sarkeesian are two of a number of feminists who have received both rape threats and death threats, presumably from MRAs. There has likely been acts of violence by MRAs, just as with the other two groups.
The truth is, in practice, that there is less sunlight between Feminist activists and Traditionalist activists, than between these groups and MRAs. Feminists and Traditionalists hold the same intolerant attitudes about porn. In fact, then-Attorney General Edwin Meese and his anti-porn campaign in the 1980s, had great support from feminist activists. Feminists have been silent about the Draft / Selective Service. The only lawsuit that is going on now against Selective Service is from the National Coalition for Men. Feminists are quite slow to attack traditional gender roles that favor women - for instance, modern feminists have said very little about hypergamy (a woman’s tendency to seek men above her socioeconomic scale for mating), and are constantly fighting MRAs over reforms to spousal support and child custody laws which also happen to favor women. Traditionalists also fight MRAs over the same issues. Traditionalists oppose gender-neutral rape laws, as do feminists.
Traditionalists pursue arbitrary and mandatory gender roles out of an agenda of infantalizing women. Feminists of today defend or ignore many examples of these same gender roles because they benefit women. Their motives may be different, but their roads lead to the same destination.
The only group that does not play well with the others is the Men’s Liberation movement. MRAs do not typically care if women enter “traditionally men’s” jobs - traditionalists routinely grouse about that. MRAs have offered far less resistance than Traditionalists about women in military combat roles: as long as she can pass the same tests as the men, MRAs are all for it. MRAs oppose Conscription and Selective Service - putting them frequently, almost violently at odds with Traditionalists. MRAs support equality in child custody laws, which has brought them into countless courtroom battles with feminists. Traditionalists and feminists alike support continuing the practice of State-sanctioned and enforced paternity fraud, while MRAs are adamantly in favor of putting an end to it. Traditionalists and feminists laugh at domestic violence against men (see Saturday Night Live’s Tiger Woods parody, or Sharon Osbourne’s infamous Catherine Kieu episode on The Talk); MRAs do not laugh at that, nor do they laugh at domestic violence against women. MRAs certainly do not play the “I oppose gender roles except those that benefit men” game.
Basically, the Traditionalists support reviving Patriarchal society, while Men’s Liberation activists adamantly oppose it because of the tragic efficiency by which the Patriarchy disposes of men. The two groups do not get along, but they also tend to keep their distance. This is not going to be the case forever. It is likely that the animosity between MRAs and Feminists will become a mere sideshow when MRAs and Traditionalists decide to deal with each other.
