Measurements.

[NuclearFairy]

My SO was going over a story I'm writing about orcs, and he wanted a more exact description of how big they are. He was wanting me to write in exactly how tall they are. But people hate it when you put in exact measurements, even though he's insisting that it's what a lot of fantasy readers like.

Anyways, I was hoping you guys could give me some ideas on how to be more specific on how big these guys are, with out going into exact measurements, or how to make the exact measurements more palatable and less clinical, or just dropping an out of story info dump at the beginning.

There's three castes, the bulky, lanky and scrawny. The scrawny ones are the same size as an average human man, so that's pretty easy. Then there's the bulky ones, who are twice as massive as the scrawny ones, so they can be over seven feet tall, and well bulky. Then there's the lanky ones which are on average a few inches shorter than the bulky ones and closer to the scrawny ones in build.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I almost invariably fall back on the unit of measure known as a "hand."

It's usually something like 4 inches, but when you say "He was like two hands taller than I was" it sounds impressive and you can kind of guess in your head what that is without it being a number.

"Half a hand taller/shorter" etc.

For the orc's here, I'd say something like "The scrawny orcs were about the size of a human, and the lanky ones are just slightly larger, maybe a hand taller than the scrawny ones. The bulky ones, though ... they're huge. Massive, even. They tower over the scrawny and lanky ones, making the others look like halflings. The two smaller orc castes spend most of their time hoping they don't get stepped on by the bulky ones, who have trouble seeing anything below hip height."

 

[PennyThompson]

I only ever gave an exact measurement of a character once, in my very first story... on a doctor's chart during a medical exam, so it was sort-of diegetic, but I still feel like it was a rookie mistake that I somewhat regret and would never do again

I think comparisons and actions are better. Do they have to duck their head when entering a human-sized doorway? When shaking hands, does the orc's hand engulf the human's like an adult shaking hands with a child?

 

[SimonDoom]

I think if you say something like "Our hero craned his neck to look at the face of the orc, who towered over him" that gives you enough of an idea. Precise measurements aren't necessary. While you may have some readers who want the numbers, most don't, and avoiding them gives you more flexibility and allows readers to use their imagination. Some readers (like me) actually appreciate that.

 

[StillStunned]

Do they have to duck their head when entering a human-sized doorway?

It must be Monday. I read that as "Do they have a duck on their head when entering..."

 

[SimonDoom]

It must be Monday. I read that as "Do they have a duck on their head when entering..."

This is how I always pictured the orcs in Tolkien, and then the movie came out and I wondered, "Where are the ducks?"

 

[AlinaX]

Bob was the kind of man who would have his dick size tattooed into his arm in case he forgot it one day.

"Seven inches, eh?" Marjorie said.

"Actually that's my shoe size. My dick's somewhere up here."

 

[PennyThompson]

Bob was the kind of man who would have his dick size tattooed into his arm in case he forgot it one day.

"Seven inches, eh?" Marjorie said.

"Actually that's my shoe size. My dick's somewhere up here."

The Bulwer-Lytton thread is that way

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Relating them back to human size generally works.
Fred tightened his grip on the sword as the orc emerged from the gloom, it was a good head taller than he was and seemed twice as broad.

 

[TheLobster]

It's usually something like 4 inches, but when you say "He was like two hands taller than I was" it sounds impressive and you can kind of guess in your head what that is without it being a number.

That's a terrible unit of measurement, even as a cursory one. Many people have elongated rectangular hands, which means orientation matters a lot. A raised palm will be a completely different height than one you hold in front of your eyes.

Use heads instead. A head has an immediately obvious orientation, and it's very naturally associated with person's height.
"He was a head taller than me" does not raise any eyebrows, is descriptive, and is precise enough for almost every case.
"He was two hands taller than me" reads like you're trying to sound medieval and forgot that ye olde vnits of measure for people were usually based on forearms, not palms.

I only ever gave an exact measurement of a character once, in my very first story... on a doctor's chart during a medical exam, so it was sort-of diegetic, but I still feel like it was a rookie mistake that I somewhat regret and would never do again

This is actually a very clever and useful trick. Kind of like wrapping a lot of expository prose in the form of in-universe briefing or lesson, given by a more experienced character to a young or rookie one.
It's a bit more difficult to pull off, though, since you probably need some type of medical setting -- like doctor's office, or military recruitment procedure -- to make it feel natural.

Anyways, I was hoping you guys could give me some ideas on how to be more specific on how big these guys are, with out going into exact measurements, or how to make the exact measurements more palatable and less clinical, or just dropping an out of story info dump at the beginning.

What biome does your story take place in? Assuming it's a typical fantasy setting, there's probably a Standard European Forest™ somewhere in there, which means you can relate heights of creatures taller than humans to trees.

 

[NuclearFairy]

That's a terrible unit of measurement, even as a cursory one. Many people have elongated rectangular hands, which means orientation matters a lot. A raised palm will be a completely different height than one you hold in front of your eyes.

I kinda thought he was using the standard horse measurement, which yes is 4 inches. But I guess not everyone is familiar with that.

What biome does your story take place in? Assuming it's a typical fantasy setting, there's probably a Standard European Forest™ somewhere in there, which means you can relate heights of creatures taller than humans to trees.

Oh, it's set in the foothills of a mountain, and in a mountain pass. The human border town is called Passville even. The standard European forest is in the villain's territory though so it's not like trees aren't around. It's something more to think about.

 

[PennyThompson]

the standard horse measurement, which yes is 4 inches. But I guess not everyone is familiar with that

Look at richy rich NuclearFairy over here, horse camp every summer! We had a large dog in the neighborhood and we would pretend it was a horse!

 

[StillStunned]

"Hand" is a confusing measurement, but "hand span" is useful.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Look at richy rich NuclearFairy over here, horse camp every summer! We had a large dog in the neighborhood and we would pretend it was a horse!

I've never lived above the poverty line. I just grew up rural.

 

[PennyThompson]

I've never lived above the poverty line. I just grew up rural.

Sorry, it's just an old gag format...

"Ohh look at Penny, had a large dog in the neighborhood! We had a stack of logs that we pretended was a dog!"

"You had logs did you!" Etc.

 

[Britva415]

people hate it when you put in exact measurements

Only when it’s dick or bra sizes. Other measurements? Go for it.

Meters, feet-and-inches, millifurlongs, just spell it out, it’s fine.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"Bob was a tall man, but he barely came up to the orc's chin."

If I needed to give a detailed description of the three orcish castes and their measurements, I'd probably do that via an excerpt from some in-universe scholarly work, but that kind of thing works best when used sparingly.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I kinda thought he was using the standard horse measurement, which yes is 4 inches. But I guess not everyone is familiar with that.

I thought this was well known lol

That’s what I get for being a nerd. It’s been a standard unit of measure since Henry VIII!

 

[Erozetta]

I only ever gave an exact measurement of a character once, in my very first story... on a doctor's chart during a medical exam, so it was sort-of diegetic, but I still feel like it was a rookie mistake that I somewhat regret and would never do again

I think comparisons and actions are better. Do they have to duck their head when entering a human-sized doorway? When shaking hands, does the orc's hand engulf the human's like an adult shaking hands with a child?

Medical, scientific, and possibly tailoring notes are about the only times exact measurements don't make my eye twitch.

I'd also give a pass to a character with a cyborg eye that auto measures things in visual range.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

...even though he's insisting that it's what a lot of fantasy readers like.

Huh? None of the fantasy readers I know care about exact measurements. The only place I've seen exact measurements used are for TTRPGs and Wargames that either have an extremely crunchy system (like GURPS), or are lead by a bad GM.

I almost invariably fall back on the unit of measure known as a "hand."

It's usually something like 4 inches, but when you say "He was like two hands taller than I was" it sounds impressive and you can kind of guess in your head what that is without it being a number.

"Half a hand taller/shorter" etc.

For the orc's here, I'd say something like "The scrawny orcs were about the size of a human, and the lanky ones are just slightly larger, maybe a hand taller than the scrawny ones. The bulky ones, though ... they're huge. Massive, even. They tower over the scrawny and lanky ones, making the others look like halflings. The two smaller orc castes spend most of their time hoping they don't get stepped on by the bulky ones, who have trouble seeing anything below hip height."

Americans will use anything but the metric system.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I think your SO, has got it wrong.
Perhaps it's just me, but I never even consider or need to know exact measurements. In fact I think (Opinion only) They remove some of the mystery...
As a reader, I like to build in my mind the characters, their sounds, their smells, their sizes....
All I need to know is they're big... Big enough their shadows cover a parked car... or it feels like nightfall as their shadows fall over you.
If I read they're 506 Cm tall... I turn off... I don't need measurements...
Let the reader figure it out... we're adults, know how to count...
Don't spoil your story...
Sci Fi and fantasy needs mystery...

Cagivagurl

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Next you guys are going to tell me that a finger is not a proper unit of whisky measurement!

 

[NuclearFairy]

"Bob was a tall man, but he barely came up to the orc's chin."

If I needed to give a detailed description of the three orcish castes and their measurements, I'd probably do that via an excerpt from some in-universe scholarly work, but that kind of thing works best when used sparingly.

I've got an excerpt at the beginning of my story about a merman (same universe but otherwise unconnected), people either think it's too long or ask to see the rest of the book about non-human people.

I could try to work in a much shorter excerpt about the bulky and lanky orcs, maybe. But scrawny orcs are all but unknown so they wouldn't be in such a field guide.

Huh? None of the fantasy readers I know care about exact measurements. The only place I've seen exact measurements used are for TTRPGs and Wargames that either have an extremely crunchy system (like GURPS), or are lead by a bad GM.

Yeah, I rather suspected he was more speaking of his preferences.

Next you guys are going to tell me that a finger is not a proper unit of whisky measurement!

Isn't it like 1-2 ounces? Which is why you always want to ask the big guy to pour you a finger of whisky.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Next you guys are going to tell me that a finger is not a proper unit of whisky measurement!

Of course it is! Though I hear some people think the finger should be horizontal, not vertical.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Of course it is! Though I hear some people think the finger should be horizontal, not vertical.

I actually had to explain to someone once that measuring to the second knuckle was for rice, not whisky.