McCain Wins . . . Why does it bother me?

[slyc_willie]

John McCain won Florida tonight, beating Mitt Romney.

When I heard this on the radio, I felt a sense of dread.

The race for the GOP nomination just became so much tougher.

There's something about McCain I just don't like. He reminds me of my old CO, I guess. Driven. Single-minded. Willing to do whatever it takes.

But not willing to look outside his own little world.

I had foreseen a Romney/Obama race for the presidency. I was comfortable with that idea, since there were things about both candidates I liked. My vote would sway back and forth between the two, and I would be happy with my choice.

But McCain . . . if he gets the GOP nomination . . . I guess I would be a Democrat, then.

 

[TE999]

John McCain won Florida tonight, beating Mitt Romney.

When I heard this on the radio, I felt a sense of dread.

The race for the GOP nomination just became so much tougher.

There's something about McCain I just don't like. He reminds me of my old CO, I guess. Driven. Single-minded. Willing to do whatever it takes.

But not willing to look outside his own little world.

I had foreseen a Romney/Obama race for the presidency. I was comfortable with that idea, since there were things about both candidates I liked. My vote would sway back and forth between the two, and I would be happy with my choice.

But McCain . . . if he gets the GOP nomination . . . I guess I would be a Democrat, then.

McCain gives me the willies. For some reason he reminds me of Captain Queeg (Humphrey Bogart) in The Caine Mutiny. I don't think I can vote for him--or whoever comes out on top in the Dem's camp either. Ain't a dimes worth of difference between them IMHO. Both buyin' votes with my tax dollars. Guess I'll throw my vote away on the Libertarian candidate, like I usually do. But at least I'm true to my political philosophy.

 

[slyc_willie]

McCain gives me the willies. For some reason he reminds me of Captain Queeg (Humphrey Bogart) in The Caine Mutiny. I don't think I can vote for him--or whoever comes out on top in the Dem's camp either. Ain't a dimes worth of difference between them IMHO. Both buyin' votes with my tax dollars. Guess I'll throw my vote away on the Libertarian candidate, like I usually do. But at least I'm true to my political philosophy.

I hear you. And, in a way, envy you.

But I've always followed the traditional pattern of Dems vs. Reps. The first election I voted in, I elected Clinton. Honestly. I liked him.

I didn't vote for Dubyah the first time around. There was a moment in which I considered doing so. Just a moment. But I did help vote him back into office, mainly because I felt that only someone who started a senseless war could end it. I couldn't have voted for Kerry. He would have fucked things up to such an extent that our economy and national security would both be suffering. Much as I can't stand Dubyah, Kerry would have been the Wilson of the 21st Century.

I almost don't want to say it, but I want Romney in the White House. And I really don't want McCain. I'd prefer not to have Hillary, and would chose Obama over her in a heartbeat.

Over the next few weeks, I suppose my decision will be obvious.

 

[TE999]

I hear you. And, in a way, envy you.

But I've always followed the traditional pattern of Dems vs. Reps. The first election I voted in, I elected Clinton. Honestly. I liked him.

I didn't vote for Dubyah the first time around. There was a moment in which I considered doing so. Just a moment. But I did help vote him back into office, mainly because I felt that only someone who started a senseless war could end it. I couldn't have voted for Kerry. He would have fucked things up to such an extent that our economy and national security would both be suffering. Much as I can't stand Dubyah, Kerry would have been the Wilson of the 21st Century.

I almost don't want to say it, but I want Romney in the White House. And I really don't want McCain. I'd prefer not to have Hillary, and would chose Obama over her in a heartbeat.

Over the next few weeks, I suppose my decision will be obvious.

Good luck with that. What we all fail to realize is that policy in this country is made not by a figurehead President--but by a bunch of old mossbacks in Congress and a legion of government employees with squinty eyes and bad comb overs. And they do what they damn well please while we pay their freight.

If I sound sour--it's because I am to a large extent.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Good luck with that. What we all fail to realize is that policy in this country is made not by a figurehead President--but by a bunch of old mossbacks in Congress and a legion of government employees with squinty eyes and bad comb overs. And they do what they damn well please while we pay their freight.

If I sound sour--it's because I am to a large extent.

You're right about domestic policy but foreign policy is made by the pres. and the advisors he appoints. There is, or should be, input from the Senate, but the pres. follows his own path.

ETA: I expect I will vote for Obama next Tuesday. I don't know about November.

 

[sr71plt]

You're right about domestic policy but foreign policy is made by the pres. and the advisors he appoints. There is, or should be, input from the Senate, but the pres. follows his own path.

ETA: I expect I will vote for Obama next Tuesday. I don't know about November.

I think you might be underestimating the power of the bureaucracy in the running of foreign policy as well.

For the last several years, in fact, if it weren't for the bureaucracy there wouldn't be any U.S. foreign policy outside of Iraq.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think you might be underestimating the power of the bureaucracy in the running of foreign policy as well.

For the last several years, in fact, if it weren't for the bureaucracy there wouldn't be any U.S. foreign policy outside of Iraq.

Well, you know, there's also Iran and Israel and North Korea and Darfur and France and a good many other nations where we have diplomatic relations.

 

[Guest]

Something Romney said last night sticks in my head, something like: "Washington is irretrievably broken, and we're not going to make real change by sending the same people back there to sit in different chairs."

I like Obama's enthusiasm, but I'm not sure he's ultimately electable. Hillary vs McCain is exactly what Romney described. But I'll take McCain over Huckabee.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Neither Hillary, Obama, or McCain are electable.

McCain got 36% of the vote in Florida. The conservative vote was split several ways, and McCain got the moderate's. He'll get Rudy's people, but that still doesnt get him above 50%. Every bad bill to come out of Congress has McCain's name on it.

Obama wins D.C., Hawaii, Vermont, Oregon, and Massachusetts if he's the Democrat candidate.

Hillary wins the Blue States and none of the Red States. Its Bush/Kerry once more.

Senators dont get elected President.

Romney is President.

 

[Pure]

i agree with jbj that it's dubious a) that mc cain gets the nom, and b) that he's electable, despite lots of strengths.

on the first score, i've never seen such hostility from conservatives of all stripes; aside from mccain's national security strength, he's weak (non conservative), with conservatives, on several issues such as immigration.

as to elections: it beats me how the most 'pro war', and pro further wars can win; he would be treated, there, as a bush clone, foolishly talking of future 'win' in iraq. while i like his character, and am a bit 'independent', he is just not independent or 'left' enough, despite the immigration thing.

in short, as a republican semimaverick, he seems to fall between the stools, as they say. guiliani could have attracted more independents.

---
as to romney. possibly he can win an election vs. a democrat. i think he might have more trouble with hillary, who will win big, on supertuesday. he is certainly willing to dish the mud, however.

arguably, too, obama, MIGHT beat him, though i don't see obama doing well in the south and several other 'red' states.

 

[DesertPirate]

Something Romney said last night sticks in my head, something like: "Washington is irretrievably broken, and we're not going to make real change by sending the same people back there to sit in different chairs."

I like Obama's enthusiasm, but I'm not sure he's ultimately electable. Hillary vs McCain is exactly what Romney described. But I'll take McCain over Huckabee.

Professional politicians are not the solution, they are the problem!

Send people to Washington and your state capitol that do real jobs and live in the real world. They might actually do something that helps people that make less than Congresscritters.

It is truly sad when the only thing out of Washington that has worked close to "as advertised" in the last 50 years is the "Do Not Call" list.

 

[SesameStreet]

Neither Hillary, Obama, or McCain are electable.

McCain got 36% of the vote in Florida. The conservative vote was split several ways, and McCain got the moderate's. He'll get Rudy's people, but that still doesnt get him above 50%. Every bad bill to come out of Congress has McCain's name on it.

Obama wins D.C., Hawaii, Vermont, Oregon, and Massachusetts if he's the Democrat candidate.

Hillary wins the Blue States and none of the Red States. Its Bush/Kerry once more.

Senators dont get elected President.

Romney is President.

I agree with you up to the last sentence and on that one I certanly pray that you are correct.

McCain is so Liberal that he should be a Democrat. Now there are articles on the Net saying that FL allowed Independents to vote yesterday and that they voted for McCain and that pushed him over Romney. But those Independents won't be at the Republican Convention. Nor will they be allowed to vote in most States on Super Tuesday.

Huckabee will drop out after Super Tuesday and his supporters will go to Romney.

If by some happenstance McCain should get the nod for the Republicans then in November our choice for President will be either a Liberal or a Liberal.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Neither Hillary, Obama, or McCain are electable.

McCain got 36% of the vote in Florida. The conservative vote was split several ways, and McCain got the moderate's. He'll get Rudy's people, but that still doesnt get him above 50%. Every bad bill to come out of Congress has McCain's name on it.

Obama wins D.C., Hawaii, Vermont, Oregon, and Massachusetts if he's the Democrat candidate.

Hillary wins the Blue States and none of the Red States. Its Bush/Kerry once more.

Senators dont get elected President.

Romney is President.

James, Oregon will not go Obama. There is an intense dilike for his changing story. Oregon is a very conservative state. The primary will go Hilary and McCain. In the General Election, McCain will lose because of his espoused stance with the Bush Administration.

There is something sort of sleazy about Romney the way he's seen here, while McCain is seen as a man of integrety. Huckabee is not even in the running. That's the perception here.

The Obama/Rezko connection will kill Obama in Oregon. Even though Obama has tried to claim he didn't know the man and only worked 5 hours on his law cases, the purchase of his mansion with the help of Rezko and their continuing 10-plus year relationship is a death sentence. On the other hand Hilary is liked by women, hispanics and black over Obama.

I see Hilary taking Oregon, Washington, California, New Mexico and New York at least. Obama will do well in the deep south with the exception of Arkansas, but not well enough to win the nomination.

 

[WRJames]

An interesting set of responses. In my mind, McCain has the best qualifications to be President, of all the candidates out there. None of the others have the military and political experience. That's on the plus side.

One the minus -- he has really pandered to the right wing of the Republican party. His sudden swing to the right on a lot of issues is not too convincing. Actually, from my point of view, that's promising -- maybe he would be a stealth moderate.

I thought he was crazy out of his mind supporting Bush in Iraq. It seemed like he was deliberately committing political suicide. But with the Surge working, more or less, he's at least temporarily running the table with that enormous gamble. The irony would be if things in Iraq went okay through Super Tuesday, he got enough delegates to win the nomination, and then Iraq went back in the toilet again.

Can he really run the table with Iraq and win the general election? Hard to say. It would not surprise me if he turned out to be a more flexible on a lot of issues once he gets the nomination. His history is as a very pragmatic moderate.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I agree with you up to the last sentence and on that one I certanly pray that you are correct.

McCain is so Liberal that he should be a Democrat. Now there are articles on the Net saying that FL allowed Independents to vote yesterday and that they voted for McCain and that pushed him over Romney. But those Independents won't be at the Republican Convention. Nor will they be allowed to vote in most States on Super Tuesday.

Huckabee will drop out after Super Tuesday and his supporters will go to Romney.

If by some happenstance McCain should get the nod for the Republicans then in November our choice for President will be either a Liberal or a Liberal.

First, I would like to point out that the three Dems. who are still active are all senators. If McCain wins the Rep. nomination, it will be senator vs. senator, so one of them will be elected.

In a closed primary such as Florida's, people vote in the primary for which they are registered. If an Indy or Dem. were to timely change registration to Rep., that person would be allowed to vote in the primary for that party. If that person were not registered as a Rep., he or she would not even be on the voter roll for that party, and would not be allowed to vote.

Florida Independent voters will definitely not be allowed to vote on Super Tuesday, for the same reason as I was not allowed to vote in Florida (If I had wanted to). You may not vote in more than one state.

 

[3113]

I couldn't have voted for Kerry. He would have fucked things up to such an extent that our economy and national security would both be suffering. Much as I can't stand Dubyah, Kerry would have been the Wilson of the 21st Century.

And I gotta ask, Slyc...how did that work out for ya? Did Dubyah avoid fucking thist us tp such an extent and our economy and national security aren't stuffering? I'm so glad we were saved from that future....

 

[3113]

I see Hilary taking Oregon, Washington, California, New Mexico and New York at least. Obama will do well in the deep south with the exception of Arkansas, but not well enough to win the nomination.

Hey. There's always a chance that he'll end up on the ticket for vice pres. Then again, I'm betting Clinton, if nominated, will go with someone like Wesley Clark to shore up that missing military experience.

 

[Weird Harold]

And I gotta ask, Slyc...how did that work out for ya? Did Dubyah avoid fucking thist us tp such an extent and our economy and national security aren't stuffering? I'm so glad we were saved from that future....

I can't speak for Slyc, but I consider the shit-puddle GWB is driving us through a lot better than the express lane to the cesspool we believe Kerry would have taken..

We'll never know for sure because there were enough people like me and Slyc who voted against Kerry rather than for Bush to keep John Kerry from perpetrating whatever fate he had in mind for the country.

If the Democrats want to move the Republicans out of the White House, they need to nominate someone who will actually tell us what their Plan is and doesn't scare the modertes shitless when they do let a few shreds of their real agenda slip through.

 

[rgraham666]

Is it possible not to scare the moderates shitless with any policies other than Republican ones?

And for that matter, how do you define a moderate?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Is it possible not to scare the moderates shitless with any policies other than Republican ones?

And for that matter, how do you define a moderate?

Generally speaking, a "Moderate" is anybody who agrees with the person doing the defining.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Quite honestly, I don't see what all the pissing and moaning is about.

Despite what the talk radio hosts, analysts, and pundits say, here is my opinion.

All of the candidates dance the same dance, and sing the same tired song. They have no intention of changing the status quo in American politics. After all, that's how they got to where they are today.

American politics is like a game of three card monte, and the voter is like the sap laying his money down. It doesn't matter which card he picks, he's going to get fucked.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quite honestly, I don't see what all the pissing and moaning is about.

Despite what the talk radio hosts, analysts, and pundits say, here is my opinion.

All of the candidates dance the same dance, and sing the same tired song. They have no intention of changing the status quo in American politics. After all, that's how they got to where they are today.

American politics is like a game of three card monte, and the voter is like the sap laying his money down. It doesn't matter which card he picks, he's going to get fucked.

Yeah, but at least, with some candidates, he'll be kissed first.

 

[WRJames]

Quite honestly, I don't see what all the pissing and moaning is about.

Despite what the talk radio hosts, analysts, and pundits say, here is my opinion.

All of the candidates dance the same dance, and sing the same tired song. They have no intention of changing the status quo in American politics. After all, that's how they got to where they are today.

American politics is like a game of three card monte, and the voter is like the sap laying his money down. It doesn't matter which card he picks, he's going to get fucked.

Well, American history if full of broken campaign promises. But sometimes those people acted for the better. Any candidate who promises change without specifics is probably just blowing smoke.

To me the real difference between Clinton and Obama is that she came sailing in as an outsider ready to do great things and got nowhere on universal health care. She knows how difficult it is. She's failed a few times, and she has that on her record.

Expecting a President to fix things for us, on their own, is just not realistic. If we as a nation want to get something like universal health care, we need a grass roots movement, a groundswell of public support, boycotts of the drug companies. We need to make each and every candidate for Congress take a stand, we need to drive the drug company lobbyists out of Washington and every medical practice in this country. Without that level of public support, nothing is ever going to happen. As long as you watch the national news a 6:30, choose your network, and every other add is by a big drug company, nothing is ever going to happen.

And that is just one issue. You can pick any of the other big ones. If we, as a people, decide we want change, we'll get it. If we just sit back and wait for change to happen -- guess what?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

"McCain Wins . . . Why does it bother me?"

Because you're afraid of what will happen when someone flashes the red queen at him.

Seriously, snarky Manchurian Candidate references aside, I hear rumors that insiders are worried about his stability. Those insiders on the right have predicted that once he gets the GOP nomination the media's multi-year romance with him will disappear and it will all come out.

 

[Weird Harold]

And for that matter, how do you define a moderate?

Generally speaking, a "Moderate" is anybody who agrees with the person doing the defining.

A moderate is someone the extremists on either end of the spectrum both hate and try to recruit support from.

Is it possible not to scare the moderates shitless with any policies other than Republican ones?

Yes, it is possible to scare a moderate shitless with Liberal Democrat Nanny-State Prohibitionist platforms.