Mature Mature?

[Aurora Black]

Can someone please tell me for crying out loud, how do I get that word virgin out from under my name? I can't even remember that far back.

*gigglesnort*

 

[duddle146]

Thanks Rob

It disappears at 30 posts as I recall.

Keep posting.

I guess I'm overdue to wake up and come to the party. I love hanging with you folks.

 

[Aurora Black]

Erm...

Boys, please come to my thread to chat. I don't think 3 appreciates our shenanigans ruining her thread. So let's go. You too, Bill.

 

[3113]

A man of 60, 65 years old is no longer a doddering geezer. Nor is the 60 year-old woman a dried-up old granny anymore. Blue pill, face-lift, vitamins and exercise - whatever it takes, ageism is going the way of sexism and racism.

Sigh. And yet, we come right back to my questions.

In 1979 there was a so-so time travel movie called Time After Time staring Malcolm McDowell as H.G. Wells. He chases after Jack the Ripper who escapes forward from 1888 into 1979. At one point, talking to his modern love interest, H.G. slyly says, "I'm a writer. I've even written about 'free love'." She laughs at him and says, "I haven't heard that term since I was little, how quaint." And he droops because what was avant guard and shocking in his time, what made him a modern rebel, is not only common place in her time but old-fashioned. She's not shocked or intregued or even interested.

A 20-something friend of mine is having a party at a pirate-themed restaurant. Imagine yourself, as her boyfriend or husband, surrounded by all her 20-something friends...how are you going to avoid feeling like daddy taking his daughter out for her birthday? I'm not just talking a cultural difference here. A cultural difference is: "I've never eaten grits. What are those?" vs. "I've never eaten risotto, what's that?" A generational difference is: "Thirty years ago I went to hot nighclubs, went dancing, experimented with drugs and sex. Been there, done that, learned from it," vs. "I want to go to hot clubs, and experiment with drugs and sex! I've never done it before. It sounds likes such fun!"

This IS NOT ageism. This is a FACT, a reality, that anyone who's going to be with someone even 10 years their junior/senior must face and deal with. There's a generation gap. So don't fucking brush it off as "ageism is so pasé!" Forgive me, but interracial couples can come from the same neighborhood and background. But people from two different generations can't avoid a difference in background EVEN if they grew up in the SAME neighborhood. They DID NOT grow up in the SAME time period. And the wider the gap, the more that's going to show--including the gap in maturity levels.

I'm a writer. I can wave my magic wand and have it all work out with no kinks at all. Ta-da! Fiction. She's magically mature and, hey, likes the Beatles and no Shikira. And he's watching American Idol. How lucky can a pair get. Why, you'd never know there was a 20 year difference.....But I'd rather find out how it can really and honestly work out, difference in maturity and decades in place. I have this weird idea that it would make a better story. Given Woody & Soon-Yi, Asjton & Demi it might be more socially acceptable, but that doesn't mean the pitfalls and problems of that generation/maturity gap are magically gone.

 

[3113]

Boys, please come to my thread to chat. I don't think 3 appreciates our shenanigans ruining her thread. So let's go. You too, Bill.

Might as well keep it here. I fear this subject is a lost cause.

 

[Aurora Black]

Might as well keep it here. I fear this subject is a lost cause.

I don't have the right to hijack your thread.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I remember being younger and in love with Sophia Loren when she was at the height of her beauty, when she was around 30 or so, I think, and reading about her marriage to a 60-something fat, short, bald, Italian producer. I think his name was Carlo Ponti (I'm amazed I remember it so well. Must have been back in the 60's) It fascinated me. She could have had anyone in the world, but she fell in love with this man. I always wondered why. Was she fucked up? Have a daddy-complex? It just seemed so bizarre, like Marilyn Monroe and Arthur Miller.

Now that I'm up around Carlo Ponti's age, though, I understand.

My wife's 11 years younger than me. We never had any generation gap problems. There's some TV shows and styles of music I know that she doesn't (& vice versa), but TV shows and early rock aren't that big a part of the reason we're together. We work around it. I suppose it's the same for other mixed-age couples. How important is taste in music and TV shows if you love someone?

My wife is also catholic and I'm Jewish, so there's that too. We've found a way to work around that as well.

For mixed aged couples going out and hanging with one or the other's peer group, yes, there's going to be problems and awkwardness, so they'd probably avoid them. I mean, if you're in love with someone, how much time do you want to spend at parties anyhow (unless you're Hugh Hefner and his arm-candy of the day)? You want to be where you feel closest to one another, which is probably alone, or with friends who don't much notice the age difference. At 60, I'm certainly not going to make a fool of myself by going out clubbing with a 22 year-old. If she's that hot on going dancing, then we're just not going to hit it off in the first place.

I've talked to quite a few women who have a thing for older men and of course there are going to be some daddy-fetishes, but for the most part what they seem to appreciate is the overall maturity and character. In the best cases, age brings with it a certain depth and richness and level of empathy and understanding they can't find in younger men. And from my own experience I know that as I've gotten older I've become a much better lover, more patient and thorough, more subtle and sophisticated and appreciative of the little details and subtleties, things that just blew right by me in my frantic youth when all I wanted to do was stick it in the nearest hole and get off. And if anything, the level of passion and sense of emotional lintimacy has only increased. A lot of women find all that very appealing - a man who can listen and understand and appreciate them, and make long, slow love when the time comes even if he has to take a little blue pill.

I don't know what else to tell you, love. If two people love each other, they tend to concentrate on the similarities rather than the differences. I don't know what else to say.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Might as well keep it here. I fear this subject is a lost cause.

Actually, I thought I made a reasonable suggestion. Somewhat of a cliche, perhaps, but not if you work it right.

 

[oggbashan]

40-50-60

My wife shared a work birthday party with some colleagues.

She was 60, another employee was 50 and a third was 40.

Their work friends overlapped so they had an overlapping party 'The 40-50-60 Event' with themed invitations.

Despite the age gaps, most of the guests enjoyed themselves all the time even if they did tend to huddle in groups of similar ages when not dancing. The 1960s and 70s music was appreciated by all, as were the obvious dance favourites such as The Birdie Song and YMCA. The 1980s and 1990s music usually meant a rush to the bar by the older participants.

The few who did not enjoy themselves were the teenage children who were embarrassed by their parents' joie-de-vivre. It is so easy to embarrass teenagers and their parents' enthusiastic dancing of the Birdie is a surefire way to do it.

What works at a party doesn't work at all social events. My wife and I find that the largest gap between age groups is between those of us from the late 1930s and early 1940s who remember bomb damage, rationing and shortages, and those born from the 1950s onwards who cannot imagine dried egg, woolton pie and NO sweets.

Og

 

[neonlyte]

I'm a writer. I can wave my magic wand and have it all work out with no kinks at all. Ta-da! Fiction. She's magically mature and, hey, likes the Beatles and no Shikira. And he's watching American Idol. How lucky can a pair get. Why, you'd never know there was a 20 year difference.....But I'd rather find out how it can really and honestly work out, difference in maturity and decades in place. I have this weird idea that it would make a better story. Given Woody & Soon-Yi, Asjton & Demi it might be more socially acceptable, but that doesn't mean the pitfalls and problems of that generation/maturity gap are magically gone.

Try again: I hope I'm finally beginning to understand what you want to know.
I have some friends, artists. She is American, lives in London aged late sixties. She taught Fine Art at universities around London. Married one of her students almost twenty years ago, and bore her only child at the age of fifty-three. Their ages today are: Her 68, Husband 40'ish, Child 15. She is in the midst of her second bout of cancer, spreading from breast to lymph-nodes - she may not survive this bout.

They make a very odd family. Illness causes her to look her age. They rarely go anywhere as a family because the misunderstanding cause stress, particularly for the child. The one activity they have enjoyed as a family is golf... hardly surprising, it is a sufficiently 'lonely' sport usually played seperate from other players, no inquiring looks and glances. They are both quite well known artists and find comfort and support from their artist friends. He likes to think he is the more famous artist of the two, whereas she receives wider acclaim (and sympathy from colleagues and friends). He drinks, progressively heavier over the years to mask supposed artisitic insecurity. He argues with her, frequently in public and can become objectionable. They rarely travel anywhere now, prefering to invite friends to their home as she can no longer drive, due to advancing illness, and she cannot trust him to remain sober enough to drive home safely.

Notwithstanding all of the above - they have a happy marriage. Why?

For one thing, he recognises he traded off her reputation to become established as an artist. Her friends bought his first painting, the galleries she worked with gave him his first exhibitions. She gave him a child, upon whom he dotes. When he's sober, he's kind, sweet and attentive. He doesn't 'work' other than in his studio - they have seperate studio's and they survive economically from what they earn as artists. (And from an invested small fortune accumulated on her first divorce.)

She came to UK following a very painful divorce, recognised a raw young talent and set about training him. He was in London, out of his depth, isolated from the Northern England rural community he grew up in, she offered him sympathy, support, and encouragement. He made her live again, gave her the child she craved and the love she thought she might never enjoy again.

Over recent years, they have grown as a family more insular. Illness is part of the reason, as is drinking. Neither has had an exhibition in the last three years, his painting is out of vogue, she cannot do new work. Her last major exhibition was a retrospective in Washington USA. Ironic. They are in limbo as a family, the child unites them and divides them. The child is a reminder of their love and a reminder of their ages. They all know she is going to die soon, adjusting to this fact requires a total suspension of the fact. It is divorced from conversation, from acknowledgement, from the reality of daily living. There talk is about plans, joint plans, false plans. It is painful to listen to, painful to watch, painful to hear. When we visit, we come away with tears in our eyes. The pain is etched just below the smiling faces of each of them.

He is terrified of her dying. She is terrified of leaving him alone. The child keeps largely to the bedroom, studying, surfing, never has friends around. Living is suspended. She's afraid he might find someone for sex, might fall in love with someone his age, so she forbids him from going out. He stays at home and drinks, his drinking makes him impotent, a blessing and an embarrassment - for both of them. Yet they still love one another, not a love easily recognised, it is a mixture of devotion, loyalty, longing and fear. Fear plays the biggest role in all their lives - no point in spelling it out.

They are both isolated and joined by the difference in their ages. There is no way he can leave her, not now. He's a child beside her, emotionally and physically. Their physical differences isolate them, no matter how much you pretend, others see you physically for what you are. She has been called the vilest things you can imagine by people in the street for the sake of her love. He is looked upon, by some, with scorn, by others with envy. Yet others pity him and almost pray for his release.

This is an extreme example, but these things happen with this kind of gender gap. The happy years, truly happy years, a few years after their marriage and after the child was born, span the digets of one hand. The initial years suffered the speculation of marriage failure, infidelity, him cutting and running once he'd established himself. The latter years blighted by illness and the inevitable, that once she dies, he will be alone again - except for the child.

 

[3113]

I've talked to quite a few women who have a thing for older men and of course there are going to be some daddy-fetishes, but for the most part what they seem to appreciate is the overall maturity and character. In the best cases, age brings with it a certain depth and richness and level of empathy and understanding they can't find in younger men.

Thank you. This helps a lot. Though it does not get us to the other side--why a man of richness, depth and empathy wants a woman 20 years or more his junior...unless he likes playing the daddy/mentor role? I mean, even if the old coot says, "YUM!" at first, he's eventually going to have to deal with the 20-something's immaturity.

And thank you for giving this another go.

 

[3113]

She's afraid he might find someone for sex, might fall in love with someone his age, so she forbids him from going out. He stays at home and drinks, his drinking makes him impotent, a blessing and an embarrassment - for both of them. Yet they still love one another, not a love easily recognised, it is a mixture of devotion, loyalty, longing and fear. Fear plays the biggest role in all their lives - no point in spelling it out.

That's a painfully sad story. I think what most strikes me is that problem which is inherent in a May-December romance if you take it far enough (i.e., see it stretch over a decade)--which is that the 20-something may always find himself/herself in the shadow of the mentor they married, especially if the husband/wife greased the way for them.

How different might it have been if he'd had to make it on his own, the hard way. That's a learning experience that he's been robbed of--something that would have formed his personality, something that would have changed his art, and something that would, perhaps, have given him the confidence he now lacks (or not?). Obviously, there's no predicting. But this is certainly one of the questions that I think any 40-something getting together with a 20-something has to consider. That is, how much their stablity (financial and otherwise) is going to keep the 20-something from finding out about themselves--how much it's going to keep them from developing into their full potential.

And on the other side, you have her, afraid of losing him. Though, as you point out, that's as much from illness as age. It's too bad she hasn't the courage to let him out, to tell him to find his comfort where he can.

Thanks for sharing that. I feel very much for the kid.

 

[Softouch911]

Thank you. This helps a lot. Though it does not get us to the other side--why a man of richness, depth and empathy wants a woman 20 years or more his junior...unless he likes playing the daddy/mentor role? I mean, even if the old coot says, "YUM!" at first, he's eventually going to have to deal with the 20-something's immaturity.

And thank you for giving this another go.

I still think the suggestions made on p. 1 by Dr. M and RG make the main point you need to deal with pretty well --

but let's follow this train of thought:

since you're a writer, what are the things that you think are enjoyable, and "redeeming qualities" in a younger person. For me it would be the vitality, vigor, optimism, and fresh outlook on life.

If "he" is to be mature and wise and "stable," then "she" has a vitality and enthusiasm that perhaps has become diminished in his life.

For both of them, it is a second or third chance to find fulfillment ... for the older, fulfillment that was bypassed or lost; for the younger, fulfillment s/he needs that is not available in all but a few younger folk.

Of course the stereotypes, the neuroses, and the deviants are always there, but as your question suggests, that's not what "romance" is made of.

You might get some real good insights, or not, on this site: http://www.agelesslove.com/boards/index.php

ST

 

[rgraham666]

Looking at my pieces with an age spread, several themes strike me.

First, both characters in all those stories are outsiders of one type or another.

Second, the men are long divorced, but suffered badly because of it. For them to be attracted to a woman at all, and acting on it, is something they haven't done for a long time.

Third, the male characters are childless. And they're of an age where their lover could easily be their child.

Fourth, the women all came from dysfunctional families.

So, because of the first, the characters share certain traits. They're trying to alleviate loneliness and they understand how the other feels.

Because of the second, the men are uncomfortable, but driven despite this towards their lover.

The third makes the men fill in the gap that having no children creates.

The last, the women are filling the gap that having bad families causes.

I'd never thought of these points until just now. Considering how common the themes are, a psychologist could have a field day with me.

 

[rgraham666]

My next thought, having reread my post above, is, could people with an age gap and without all the baggage listed above have a romantic relationship?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Thank you. This helps a lot. Though it does not get us to the other side--why a man of richness, depth and empathy wants a woman 20 years or more his junior...unless he likes playing the daddy/mentor role? I mean, even if the old coot says, "YUM!" at first, he's eventually going to have to deal with the 20-something's immaturity.

Well, if we're talking a 20's-something girl--especially early 20's--then, yeah, I think you're going to have some problems in finding common ground for anything but a purely physical relationship, or anything that doesn't smack of some Lolita fixation. Like you said, at that age a woman is still being formed, and I don't know if she has the depth and stability to meet an older man's emotional needs.

WHat she's lacking, of course, is not so much experience, as it is maturity, and how do we gain maturity? What do we mean by it?

For me, maturity is gained by dealing with pain of one sort or another, usualy emotional, but physical can do it as well. Whyen you're young, your attention is kind of spread out all around you in a wide and shallow pool. Dealing with pain turns that attention inside and makes it deep and focused and maturity is the result (if that makes any sense). I think the kind of girl an older man might really fall in love with might be someone who's known a considerable amount of pain and loss in her life and so is mature beyond her years.

This is just top-of-my-head stuff, but if I wanted to throw an older man and a girl in her 20's together and have them fall in love, I think he could be any reasonably sensitive and lonely guy, and I'd have her be deeply hurt in some way. Maybe she's an orphan or maybe physically handicapped or maybe she's an angry outcast and rebel. Something like that. But she would understand loneliness and sadness, and in that way she could understand him.

As to what he'd get out of it-- Well, men are nurturers too. We have love we want to give too, and never underestimate a man's almost embarrassingly primitive desire to be a woman's hero and knight in shining armor, to be respected and admired, and to be her shelter and support. Sexist as hell, I suppose, but very real.

There's also the thrill he gets out of seeng the world anew through her young eyes, to take all his experience and history and find that it's suddenly of value to someone. That's terribly gratifying. It means your life has purpose.

The other day I had the thought that the very essence of love is understanding. Understanding and being understood. We all want to share our lives with someone, and for that to happen they have to understand our feelings and experiences and we have to understand theirs. I think this can happen pretty much regardless of age, but I don't think young people realize how significant it is and so they too often brush it off. That's where the maturity comes in. Maturity lets us recognize that connecting with someone and that understanding them and being understood is very special and not to be ignored or tossed away.

So I guess what I'd see for my story would be this guy and a girl who's maybe very sensitive and misunderstood and rebellious, and they meet, and she sees in him someone who can offer her acceptance and stability and isn't sucked into her games, and he sees in her someone whose pain he understands and has dealt with on his own. They get together based on the fact that he understands her and she can talk to him (on her part), and he gets to feel like man and support her and share her youthful energy as he watches her develop.

I think there's always going to be an element of poignancy in such a romance, at least for him, becaue he's got to be aware of his own mortality and that he'll have to leave her one day, a fact she probably doesn't appreciate, being so young (and therefore immortal, of course), but that's part of the charm, isn't it? Someone said once that all love stories are sad stories, which is kind of weird, but true enough, I guess.

There's a movie I like a lot called "The Professional" with Jean Reno as a middle aged hired assassin and Natalie Portman (?) as a little girl (14-15, maybe) who sees her family murdered by some gangsters. She apprentices herself to reno (against his better judgment), and despite the kind of creepy pedophilic vibe that sometimes hovers over them (it never happens, thank God, and never comes close to happening), they fall in love. He teaches her how to be an assassin so she can revenge her family, and in return she becomes his housekeeper and helper. Check it out if you want to see how the movie pulls it off and makes it totally believable, or if you ust want to see a very good flick.

And if all else fails, you could always just go with the mentor-protege model. The brilliant young ballerina and the aging master, the starlet and the grizzled veteran (was just reading about Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall. I didn't realize that she was 19 when he married her, and he was in his 40's. Their marriage lasted.)

Fascinating question. Hope this helped.

 

[Aurora Black]

There's a movie I like a lot called "The Professional" with Jean Reno as a middle aged hired assassin and Natalie Portman (?) as a little girl (14-15, maybe) who sees her family murdered by some gangsters. She apprentices herself to reno (against his better judgment), and despite the kind of creepy pedophilic vibe that sometimes hovers over them (it never happens, thank God, and never comes close to happening), they fall in love. He teaches her how to be an assassin so she can revenge her family, and in return she becomes his housekeeper and helper. Check it out if you want to see how the movie pulls it off and makes it totally believable, or if you ust want to see a very good flick.

It was indeed Natalie Portman, and I believe she was 12 at the time.

And that is the extent of my knowledge on this subject. Folks, try to hold off on the champagne party until after I've left, m'kay?

 

[CharleyH]

I was thinking about the "Mature" story category and now I'm wondering....


Is there a mature way to write a mature story?

I think the mature category is a polite word for MILF and FILF most times in porn. I doubt the gap is 10 years, as I could be 18 and my lover 28. I am certain that MATURE is a thing referring to a wider age gap. As for writing realistic stories? Of course. I wrote of one (not here) but a true story. I had a crush on my best friends mother - and she fucked all of my best friends boyfriends, yet sadly was not lesbian. (a sad not getting any, but everyone else did if they had a penis story - lol - I am not bitter - lol - no, not bitter at all )

I also believe, and mainly, that the "mature" category goes beyond this gap or age dichotomy, and such a story can tell a tale of two 60 year olds and their sexual adventures. As younger people, we sometimes forget that sex and experimentation and especially knowing what one pleasures INCREASES with age - it does not decrease as we are led to believe with little blue pills, which remind me of Alice in Wonderland. I think desire becomes more informed with age, and more certain, yet we have a youth-focussed culture and do not want to hear or read of saging balls or tits or of anyone above 40 being particularly more horny than an 18 year old. lol - a thought more than an answer.

 

[3113]

Third, the male characters are childless. And they're of an age where their lover could easily be their child.

...The third makes the men fill in the gap that having no children creates.

The last, the women are filling the gap that having bad families causes.

I'd never thought of these points until just now. Considering how common the themes are, a psychologist could have a field day with me.

It might be too much to ask to ignore the parent/child or mentor/student relationship in a May-December romance. After all, most of us have such relationships even with people our own age. We might get that first crush as a kid on the neighbor boy or the girl in class, but we also have that first, often more lasting love for an important teacher, or dad/mom/, favorite uncle/aunt, or older brother/sister.

That's where we get our first models for future mates, after all.

It's just that's it's hard to present that aspect subtly with May-December.

 

[3113]

I think the kind of girl an older man might really fall in love with might be someone who's known a considerable amount of pain and loss in her life and so is mature beyond her years.

Interesting thought--which certainly does qualify for The Professional (which my husband and I like to call Le Femme Lolita). I like that movie, by the way. It really does work.

Interesting to compare it to Man on Fire where Denzel Washington's bodyguard and Dakota Fanning have more of a romance than a father-daughter relationship, to the point where, in the lunch scene, she's more like his wife than his charge.

never underestimate a man's almost embarrassingly primitive desire to be a woman's hero and knight in shining armor, to be respected and admired, and to be her shelter and support. Sexist as hell, I suppose, but very real.

I don't find it sexist at all. It's certainly real and an admirable trait. It does pose another problem, however. In some ways an older man is far more equipt to "save" a 20-something girl--who to call, how to give orders, cut through red-tape, etc. But he's going to have to accept that she's going to overshadow him physically. Unless she's out of shape, or he's in really excellent shape, then a 20-something girl is going to be able to run those marathons that he can't because, hey, you get into your 40's and 50's and you start having join pains. That old knee injury from college comes back to haunt you, etc. Just the way it is.

And it's even more troublesome for him if he finds himself trying to protect her against the threat of a younger man. Now, of course, there are older guys who are martial arts experts, and older guys who are just mean and tough and experience and are going to kick the shit out a younger guy. But, if we're talking average, nothing too special, then the age difference between our 40-50-something and 20-something boys giving them trouble will affect the outcome and our "hero's" perception of his own manhood and ability to protect the girl. On THAT primal level, at least.

I think there's always going to be an element of poignancy in such a romance, at least for him, becaue he's got to be aware of his own mortality and that he'll have to leave her one day, a fact she probably doesn't appreciate, being so young (and therefore immortal, of course), but that's part of the charm, isn't it? Someone said once that all love stories are sad stories, which is kind of weird, but true enough, I guess.

Another good point.

And if all else fails, you could always just go with the mentor-protege model. The brilliant young ballerina and the aging master, the starlet and the grizzled veteran (was just reading about Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall. I didn't realize that she was 19 when he married her, and he was in his 40's. Their marriage lasted.)

Well, she was a pretty extraordinary 19 year old....

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I don't find it sexist at all. It's certainly real and an admirable trait. It does pose another problem, however. In some ways an older man is far more equipt to "save" a 20-something girl--who to call, how to give orders, cut through red-tape, etc. But he's going to have to accept that she's going to overshadow him physically. Unless she's out of shape, or he's in really excellent shape, then a 20-something girl is going to be able to run those marathons that he can't because, hey, you get into your 40's and 50's and you start having join pains. That old knee injury from college comes back to haunt you, etc. Just the way it is.

And it's even more troublesome for him if he finds himself trying to protect her against the threat of a younger man. Now, of course, there are older guys who are martial arts experts, and older guys who are just mean and tough and experience and are going to kick the shit out a younger guy. But, if we're talking average, nothing too special, then the age difference between our 40-50-something and 20-something boys giving them trouble will affect the outcome and our "hero's" perception of his own manhood and ability to protect the girl. On THAT primal level, at least.

Running marathons, going clubbing and dancing all night, physically defending her from other men...? What kind of relationship is this?

I've never done any of things with or for a woman in my life. Of course, I haven't dated in a long time. Have things changed that much? Do you have to be able to fight and run marathons now?

No, seriously, for May-December to work, they're going to have to spend most of their time in August or September. No way he can keep up with her physically, and if that's important to her, then just forget the whole thing. It would never get off the ground. Same for his side. If he insists she sit at home reading to him every night or whatever it is he likes to do, she's not going to be able to keep up with him in terms of sitting-on-your-ass time either.

Most likely they'd do things more suited towards his tastes, and that would have to work for both of them if it's going to last. A 19 year old at the opera is fine, but a 60 year-old man skateboardomg or high on extasy at a rave is not going to happen. (Well, maybe in California, but there's something tragic about it wherever it happens.)

 

[CharleyH]

Running marathons, going clubbing and dancing all night, physically defending her from other men...? What kind of relationship is this?

I've never done any of things with or for a woman in my life. Of course, I haven't dated in a long time. Have things changed that much? Do you have to be able to fight and run marathons now?

No, seriously, for May-December to work, they're going to have to spend most of their time in August or September. No way he can keep up with her physically, and if that's important to her, then just forget the whole thing. It would never get off the ground. Same for his side. If he insists she sit at home reading to him every night or whatever it is he likes to do, she's not going to be able to keep up with him in terms of sitting-on-your-ass time either.

Most likely they'd do things more suited towards his tastes, and that would have to work for both of them if it's going to last. A 19 year old at the opera is fine, but a 60 year-old man skateboardomg or high on extasy at a rave is not going to happen. (Well, maybe in California, but there's something tragic about it wherever it happens.)

Hmmm - I may have to think on this one, Doc

 

[Softouch911]

But he's going to have to accept that she's going to overshadow him physically. ...

... the age difference between our 40-50-something and 20-something boys giving them trouble will affect the outcome and our "hero's" perception of his own manhood and ability to protect the girl. On THAT primal level, at least.

Now you're talking about a man who hasn't grown up while he's gotten older.

I know several of those. Pretty pathetic.

From other things you've said, I don't think it's what you're looking for. If you really want to write this, I think it would be easiest if you went back to the original suggestions that involved, iirc, figuring out what an older man may have to offer that a younger man couldn't ... and to do that, you'd have to also figure out what a younger woman (especially someone who is only in her 20s) might have to offer an adult man.

Just as it would be an unusual older man (and not in terms of his physical ability to leap tall buildings) who would have what it takes to provide fulfillment for a young woman in a romance, so it would be a very unusual young woman who a mature, adult man would find pleasurable beyond the physical.

Not impossible, certainly, but two people who have gone beyond the norm. Perhaps, as Dr. M. suggests, she could do it through a healthy dose of suffering that somehow takes her beyond mere self-pity; and maybe he could do it for her if he was able to see her in terms of her human potential rather than according to her bra size or her "ironman" trophies. I submit that most grown men (who will take it for granted that they will be overshadowed physically, if not today then certainly tomorrow) wouldn't find that part too hard.

ST

 

[3113]

Now you're talking about a man who hasn't grown up while he's gotten older.

I know several of those. Pretty pathetic.

You're talking about guys who are going through that mid-life crisis where they want to prove that they're not old at all, that they're just as tough and able as young guys. Guys who say, "Let me handle this honey!" and step up to the plate. But that's not what I'm talking about.

As Dr. M. pointed out, men do want to protect their wimmen-folk (sic), family, territory, pride, etc. And age or infirmity does nothing to negate this desire/need. A man may have to face reality--be he a skinny geek or in a wheelchair or 75 and arthritic....But that doesn't mean that he's not going to feel that desire to protect, to be the man, or that he'd not going to feel some inadequacy when his ability to protect can't match up with his his desire.

I'm not talking about a guy getting into a fight with boys 20 years younger to prove himself. I'm not even talking about a guy who, getting into an unavoidable altercation with such a boy, ends up crushed and feeling he's no longer a man. I'm merely talking of that moment--the many moments in time that happen in such a relationship--where the man feels that age gap. Profoundly.

 

[NoJo]

You're talking about guys who are going through that mid-life crisis where they want to prove that they're not old at all, that they're just as tough and able as young guys. Guys who say, "Let me handle this honey!" and step up to the plate. But that's not what I'm talking about.

As Dr. M. pointed out, men do want to protect their wimmen-folk (sic), family, territory, pride, etc. And age or infirmity does nothing to negate this desire/need. A man may have to face reality--be he a skinny geek or in a wheelchair or 75 and arthritic....But that doesn't mean that he's not going to feel that desire to protect, to be the man, or that he'd not going to feel some inadequacy when his ability to protect can't match up with his his desire.

I'm not talking about a guy getting into a fight with boys 20 years younger to prove himself. I'm not even talking about a guy who, getting into an unavoidable altercation with such a boy, ends up crushed and feeling he's no longer a man. I'm merely talking of that moment--the many moments in time that happen in such a relationship--where the man feels that age gap. Profoundly.

The best thing about getting old is being able to stop taking life seriously.

It's like the camera is gradually pulling back to wide-shot.