Many Florida Jews Express Doubts on Obama

[Guest]

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[Carnevil9]

Well, even ignoring his fuzzily-stated policy positions, Obama has three Arab-sounding names. If anything is going to be a major turn-off for elderly Jews, it's going to be a triple Arab running for president.

 

[rgraham666]

That's something I've been noticing for a while, sarahh.

There's a very strong undercurrent of 'those people aren't Americans' in American politics these days. It seems to me that too often the idea of 'liberty and justice for all' is something that only lip service is paid to.

 

[freshface]

That's something I've been noticing for a while, sarahh.

There's a very strong undercurrent of 'those people aren't Americans' in American politics these days. It seems to me that too often the idea of 'liberty and justice for all' is something that only lip service is paid to.

It's been a part of American politics at least as far back as the Irish in the 19th century. Those people weren't Americans either, until the Italians and Eastern Europeans showed up.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

It's been a part of American politics at least as far back as the Irish in the 19th century. Those people weren't Americans either, until the Italians and Eastern Europeans showed up.

Until post-WWII, actually. Otherwise, a lot more would have escaped here instead of ending up in Auschwitz. Good ol' Eastern Establishment was at work on that little incident. Just like Earl Warren drove the idea of Manzanar.

 

[freshface]

Until post-WWII, actually. Otherwise, a lot more would have escaped here instead of ending up in Auschwitz. Good ol' Eastern Establishment was at work on that little incident. Just like Earl Warren drove the idea of Manzanar.

Unfortunately, we've never stopped. These days it's Hispanics and Muslims. It seems like the grandchildren of those people are just as ready to label the next group as "not American."

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Unfortunately, we've never stopped. These days it's Hispanics and Muslims. It seems like the grandchildren of those people are just as ready to label the next group as "not American."

Exactly! And in their turn, the Muslims and Hispanics will find someone else to blame for all the country's troubles. That leaves this Italian/Early British Settler hybrid snickering up his sleeves.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Jews wont vote for a black. There's too much ethnic animosity. Obama will lose 49 states.

 

[WRJames]

That's something I've been noticing for a while, sarahh.

There's a very strong undercurrent of 'those people aren't Americans' in American politics these days. It seems to me that too often the idea of 'liberty and justice for all' is something that only lip service is paid to.

Part of it is politicians trying to micromarket to what they perceive as groups with different interests -- and pollsters breaking down those groups in equisited detail -- how does Obama do against McCain with white women with a high school education and a family income under 50K -- I'll bet you can find the answer out there. By region, probably, and religious preference.

As for Israel, Obama spent today in Florida pandering to the Jewish vote, assuring them that he would not negotiate with Hamas. What Bullshit! Really, if the man has no principles and no guts, and no experience --

of course, McCain is dragging around the Bush legacy.

One time, long ago, I was listening to a Phillies game, and Richie Ashburn drawled -- well, both teams are trying to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

That seems to be the stage we're in right now.

 

[rgraham666]

What I find ironic is that some Jews would be so prejudiced when they've been on the receiving end of it so often.

Oh well, what you resist you become and all that.

 

[starrkers]

I've never understood the whole Italian American, Polish American, etc etc thing.

Australia is a land of immigrants too, but we're all just Australian.

 

[S-Des]

I've never understood the whole Italian American, Polish American, etc etc thing.

Australia is a land of immigrants too, but we're all just Australian.

A lot of us are just American as well. I think with many people it's a way to feel attached to something you're not really attached to (like an adopted child romanticizing his/her "real" parents). I'm Irish & German, but have no more interest in either country than I do in any other (well, I'm kind of partial to fair-skinned red-heads, but nothing other than that ). I was born here, so I'm American. Although I think it's kind of pointless, I try to give others their way with all the hyphenated stuff. It's not important enough to be annoyed by it, really.

Rob, everyone is prejudiced. Some of us try really hard to not let it affect us, but it would be really easy to find bigoted posts from virtually everyone here about one group or another. The people the article pointed out were very old, and grew up in a time when almost everyone here was taught to accept that bigotry towards minorities. If they did the same interview with 20 - 50 year-olds, I doubt they'd get the same results (but really, isn't that the whole point of the article in the first place....to stir up some controversy?). I was watching MSNBC and saw Ron Reagan (who I really like) completely attack voters in West Virginia, intimating that they were stupid and racist because they didn't vote for Obama. He was most upset that 20% said race was a factor (although the poll didn't bother to ask what kind of factor it was). Of course since it was Abrahms hosting, he didn't bother to ask if Ron if he'd be equally upset about polling that showed race was important to black voters as well (as it should be, considering the potential social impact of an Obama Presidency). That's the state of media today...they'll push any angle to get people excited, with very little thought as to the reasons below the surface. Anything to get ratings.

 

[AvoidingRealWork]

How Obama will approach the Israeli-Arab issue is a matter of serious concern to anyone who wants to see a viable, secure, peaceful Jewish homeland in the Middle East. The Palestinians Arabs elected a government that is dedicated to the destruction of the Jewish state. The situation is one that calls for the utmost delicacy, and anyone who cares about Israel had better be really f-ing sure where a candidate for US President stands before voting for him or her.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I truly hate that people who live in this country are being broken down into so many subgroups. It reminds me of scholastic testing for the No Child Left Behind. We aren't people or Americans or voters anymore, just "blacks" or "women" or "Jews." Isn't that a load of crap?

Yeah. Especially when the media is stirring it up for their own mercenary purposes. The reporter could have written a thoughtful, nuanced piece that explored genuine voter motivations and concerns. Instead it's a hack job designed to forward a particular narrative about "racist America," and the left's turning against the Jews because of the "inconvenience" of an Israel that won't quietly be led like a lamb to the slaughter. The headline writer - all headline writers -should be taken out and shot, too.

 

[WRJames]

Yeah. Especially when the media is stirring it up for their own mercenary purposes. The reporter could have written a thoughtful, nuanced piece that explored genuine voter motivations and concerns. Instead it's a hack job designed to forward a particular narrative about "racist America," and the left's turning against the Jews because of the "inconvenience" of an Israel that won't quietly be led like a lamb to the slaughter. The headline writer - all headline writers -should be taken out and shot, too.

I guess that makes your stance on Israel pretty obvious. My own opinion is completely opposite -- Israel has more or less taken the German model of oppression and applied it to the Palestinians. There's not much to choose between the Warsaw ghetto and what Israel has been doing to Gaza.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I came to the sad conclusion years ago that the Middle East is completely bereft of good guys.

 

[S-Des]

Israel has more or less taken the German model of oppression and applied it to the Palestinians. There's not much to choose between the Warsaw ghetto and what Israel has been doing to Gaza.

Your posts never fail to amuse me.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I guess that makes your stance on Israel pretty obvious. My own opinion is completely opposite -- Israel has more or less taken the German model of oppression and applied it to the Palestinians. There's not much to choose between the Warsaw ghetto and what Israel has been doing to Gaza.

The complete and total lack of recognition of any historical context or perspective in that statement is emblematic of what's wrong with leftist and populist views on foreign policy in this era. Equating explicitly genocidal death camps and extermination factories with the complex geopolitical realities that are hangovers of the establishment of Israel, and of the 1967 attempt by it's enemies to push the Jews into the sea, is almost obscene.

What's my "obvious" position on Israel? That they are surrounded by enemies who want to exterminate them and have no good options, only options that vary in their badness. But even that minimal level of nuance is not possible when one's views are so absolutely bereft of any context or perspective.

I'm sorry for not being more gentle in this post. I really don't mean to beat up on you, I doubt that you really mean what you said, and I have no intention of getting into a debate on Israel's policies and struggles, but your statement is just so preposterous that I'm flabbergasted.

 

[WRJames]

The complete and total lack of recognition of any historical context or perspective in that statement is emblematic of what's wrong with leftist and populist views on foreign policy in this era. Equating explicitly genocidal death camps and extermination factories with the complex geopolitical realities that are hangovers of the establishment of Israel, and of the 1967 attempt by it's enemies to push the Jews into the sea, is almost obscene.

I was talking about the Warsaw ghetto -- which was sealed off, with the people trapped in it subjected to humiliation, starvation, and despair. What's happening to Gaza is pretty similar.

Hopefully we will never get to the death camp stage.

What's my "obvious" position on Israel? That they are surrounded by enemies who want to exterminate them and have no good options, only options that vary in their badness.

Actually, I'm in agreement with that assessment. However, Israel has been doing things like dropping cluster bombs on civilian targets that are making the rest of us a bit squeamish.

I'm sorry for not being more gentle in this post. I really don't mean to beat up on you, I doubt that you really mean what you said, and I have no intention of getting into a debate on Israel's policies and struggles, but your statement is just so preposterous that I'm flabbergasted.

The sad thing is that it's not preposterous. The sad thing is that what Israel is doing in Gaza gets so little coverage by the US media that it sounds like a wild accusation. But it's not. Every day or so, a few Palestinian children in Gaza are being killed by an Israeli bomb.

Of course, Hamas is also firing rockets into Israel. That's inexcusable also. But refusing to talk to Hamas is only going to perpetuate that situation, isn't it?

What other way out is there? Some "final solution" to the refugee problem?

 

[SeaCat]

A lot of us are just American as well. I think with many people it's a way to feel attached to something you're not really attached to (like an adopted child romanticizing his/her "real" parents). I'm Irish & German, but have no more interest in either country than I do in any other (well, I'm kind of partial to fair-skinned red-heads, but nothing other than that ). I was born here, so I'm American. Although I think it's kind of pointless, I try to give others their way with all the hyphenated stuff. It's not important enough to be annoyed by it, really.

Bravo!!

I too have a very hard time understanding this.

I am an American. Yes I am of Germanic Descent, hell I'm first generation American. Notice that statement? American. Beyond that I am a Human.

As far as I'm concerned this splitting of nationality is merely another basis for racism and hatred. I often ask people who hyphenate their nationality what they truly are. Usually they don't like the question.

Cat

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

The Warsaw Ghetto was a 16 block area into which an estimated 440,000 people were driven. Nazis closed off the Warsaw Ghetto from the outside world on November 16, 1940, building a wall with armed guards.

During the next year and a half, thousands of the Polish Jews as well as some Romani people from smaller cities and the countryside were brought into the Ghetto, while diseases (especially typhoid) and starvation kept the inhabitants at about the same number. Average food rations in 1941 for Jews in Warsaw were limited to 253 kcal, compared to 2,325 kcal for gentile Poles and 5,613 kcal for Germans.

Over 100,000 of the Ghetto's residents died due to rampant disease or starvation, as well as random killings, even before the Nazis began massive deportations to the Treblinka extermination camp. About 254,000 Ghetto residents were sent to Treblinka and murdered there before the uprising begain in January, 1943. According to the official report on the uprising, at least 56,065 people were killed on the spot or deported to Nazi concentration and death camps, mostly to Treblinka.

These events occurred over a 30 month period, and were just a tiny slice of a much larger horror. The motivations for the horror contained no "nuance" or complexity. They were pure evil, pure and simple.

Context. Perspective. They matter.

 

[WRJames]

A lot of us are just American as well. I think with many people it's a way to feel attached to something you're not really attached to (like an adopted child romanticizing his/her "real" parents). I'm Irish & German, but have no more interest in either country than I do in any other (well, I'm kind of partial to fair-skinned red-heads, but nothing other than that ). I was born here, so I'm American. Although I think it's kind of pointless, I try to give others their way with all the hyphenated stuff. It's not important enough to be annoyed by it, really.

Oh -- same here, about the same mix -- the latest any of my ancestors came to this country was in the 1840's. I'm about as non-ethnic as possible.

I really did not encounter a hint of ethnic diversity until I went to college.

One of the glories of the New York metro area is the mix of cultures. It would be a shame to see all that blend into a single American mush. On the other hand, a lot of those groups are killing each other elsewhere in the world. There's always the threat that violence could erupt here also.

Not so long ago I went to a wedding where a Serb married a Jew, and Italian food was served at the reception. Only in America.

 

[rgraham666]

Actually that sort of thing happens quite frequently in Canada.

 

[emap]

Hmmmm, which the killing or the arabic man marrying a jewish gal with italian food at the buffet?

Personally I'd like to think that the Florida part is simply to say the peoples of this religion believe this here. I mean when you think about it, people are different from state to state. How many people not living in Louisiana eat crawdads?

Sorry it was the first comparison I could think of. Also seen in larger areas, like, until fairly recently, most people had never/rarely eaten chicken fried steaks, or biscuits and gravy. Fried chicken rather went everywhere quickly, but those two were alot slower, I love em both and I had alot of oh my god moments in my travels because my friend or co worker had never had that.

Anyway, I know most likely the newspaper, station or company has picked a different person to be the next president and simply edited the story to get people to go oh hey maybe we don't want to vote for this guy.

I hope that any man or woman who can get a job as a reporter, typed or spoken has enough talent to not write pure drivel like that. Instead I think that the editor simply edited out the parts that explained their views in full and left it like that.

I suppose chances are about even the writer is actually that bad, but I want to think otherwise.

 

[Misty_Morning]

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