Malignant First-personism

[dr_mabeuse]

Do you suffer from "First-personism"? Many authors do. More bad stories are written in first person than in third-person.
Learn to recognize these nine early warning signs of pernicious first-personism:

1) Assuming that, because it happened to you, everyone will be interested.

(2) Assuming that, because the narrator is you, everyone will be fascinated.

(3) Assuming that writing a story is the same as verbally telling it, and that writing is the same as transcribing speech. (This never works. All you've got to do is...uh...look at some of those...er...verbatim or whatever you call 'em transcriptions to, you know, see how fucked they are, you know?)

(4) Using subjective value judgments. ("She was the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen!" Great. Now what did she look like?) (It was the most intense orgasm I'd ever had!" Ditto.)

(5) Bragging ("My large, sumptuous breasts." "My big hard cock.")

(6) Building yourself up. (Similar to (5), but more subtle. Picking up women with some impossibly oily and nauseating line.)

(7) Telling instead of showing. ("I was beat." "I was horny." "It was the best night of my life.")

(8) Using speech colloquialisms in writing. ("I freaked." "He got pissed.")

(9) Saying things people would never say. ("I cupped her sumptuous breasts in my trembling hands." "His masterly loving soon had me pulsing with desire.")


Some of these early warning signs apply to third-person writing as well, but they seem especially irritating in first-person narratives. Learn to recognize them and help stamp them out. Remember, the readers you save may be your own!

---dr.M.

 

[JanetTenaj]

More bad stories are written in first person than in third-person.

I agree with your entire post, but IMO more good stories are written in first-person as well. When first-person is used as a crutch, the results are lame. But good first-person writing is (to me) more gripping, more immersive, and more interesting.

 

[English Lady]

Dr I think I see what you're getting at but I would imagine that the kind of stories you mean were actually more of a turn on for the writer writing them and posting them than really meant to excite an audience.


I know that when I first started posting my stories I did it purely for myself, just out of curiousity really to see if anyone else did really like my sordid little fantasies or not. It wasn't until I got round to writing some new tales that I actually began to think a little bit the people reading them.


Also the bragging bit, well you're not going to say "my small unimpressive breasts" or " my rather tiny, diminutive cock" are you?


Ahh colloquilisms, Ok I put my hand up at that one, I use them alot, though mostly in my characters dialogue. It's me though, it's my style of writing and I do try to cut out words and sayings that are so coloquial I know virtually no one will understand what I'm getting at!

Oh and on the last point, my husband was telling me about a cyber encounter he had the other night where the lady involved insisted on calling his cock a "Pleasure Poker"
I know that has absolutely nothing to do with anything, but well it makes me chuckle.

Ok I have gone on WAAAAAY too much now! Just nit picking really......

 

[Un-registered]

I agree with your entire post, but IMO more good stories are written in first-person as well. When first-person is used as a crutch, the results are lame. But good first-person writing is (to me) more gripping, more immersive, and more interesting.

While not wholly disagreeing with you, I would like to point out that first person writing usually eliminates half the potential readership at a stroke. I know of very few men who can identify with a narrator who talks about her breasts, or vice versa.

However, I think we can all agree that second person is definitely the worst.

 

[English Lady]

You know, it's sort of strange I guess. This point about first perso writing,I have absolutely no problem in reading a story written from a guys perspective, in fact most of the time I find these preferable to one's written from a female standpoint. I wonder if I am unique in that?

 

[PaulX35]

Dr.

While not disagreeing with what you brought forward, I wondered if the same things would not apply equally to stories written from third person perspective?
I agree there are certain specific pitfalls in the first-person perspective, but mutatis mutandis other perspectives might not be all that less dangerous.

If the story is bad or badly written, no perspective-change will probably make it any better, and if it's good, it will often be from any perspective.

Just a quick thought,

Paul

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Also the bragging bit, well you're not going to say "my small unimpressive breasts" or " my rather tiny, diminutive cock" are you?

<LOL> Okay, English! I like that a lot! You should write a whole parody like that. Or maybe I will: "I just got home from work and I wasn't tired at all, and there she was, the homelest girl I had ever seen in my life! Her small, unimpressive breasts didn't even show through her loose, ill-fillting tank top, and she gave me a look that didn't do a thing for me. My rather tiny, diminuitive cock didn't even begin to stir below my big paunch, and I knew this would be a night I'd want to forget as soon as possible..."

But really, would you ever tell anyone that someone stared at your perfectly-sculpted ass? Or that your breasts were "to die for"?

And Paul, you're right. First person has no lock on dreadfulness, although I do think a bad first person is worse than a bad third person just because you get the feeling that you've been wasting time by hanging around with a narrator you don't even like and who has nothing to say.

It is remarkable how we can read a stoiry from the POV of either sex and have no trouble with the transition. This is true in third person as well as in first. I guess hot is hot.


---dr.M.

 

[PaulX35]

<LOL> Okay, English! I like that a lot! You should write a whole parody like that. Or maybe I will: "I just got home from work and I wasn't tired at all, and there she was, the homelest girl I had ever seen in my life! Her small, unimpressive breasts didn't even show through her loose, ill-fillting tank top, and she gave me a look that didn't do a thing for me. My rather tiny, diminuitive cock didn't even begin to stir below my big paunch, and I knew this would be a night I'd want to forget as soon as possible..."

Dr.

ROFL! Can I nominate that for the Shrinking Dick Award?

Paul

 

[Pookie]

If you can't tell a story, it really doesn't matter what person or tense the writer uses ... the story will be bad. However, bad stories written in first person may grate the reader more than a third person story.

First person is a very powerful tool. When used skillfully, it will IMO almost always be a more powerful a story than any other person. But there is the key ... "used skillfully".

The "big cock" and "huge tits" tend to show up in "bad" stories ... it has nothing to do with tense. However, even the "big cock" can make a powerful story when included in a well developed plot with strong characters (yes, I am shamelessly plugging Octavian's "A Modern Love Story" ).

First and third person are just tools for the writer. Third person is like a small knife. When used in skillful hands, it can carve out something wonderful. First person is like a sword, in unskillful hands, it can be used to butcher pretty much anything attempted. Maybe the analogy I'm using isn't the best .. but hopefully it makes the point I'm attempting.

Bragging, building yourself up, etc. are all symptoms of someone who doesn't know how to tell a story. It really has nothing to do with the "person" used in the story. Although, it does seem that novice writers tend to choose first person. I have a feeling this is due to the "chat room" influence of the internet.

I don't see a problem with using speach colloquialisms. In fact, I think they are required at times depending on the characters. However, if I read a story about an eighty year old grandmother saying "I freaked" or "hey, chick", I would probably freak out myself.

 

[BigTexan]

<LOL>"I just got home from work and I wasn't tired at all, and there she was, the homelest girl I had ever seen in my life! Her small, unimpressive breasts didn't even show through her loose, ill-fillting tank top, and she gave me a look that didn't do a thing for me. My rather tiny, diminuitive cock didn't even begin to stir below my big paunch, and I knew this would be a night I'd want to forget as soon as possible..."

---dr.M.

Sounds way to much like real life to me, eh?

BigTexan

 

[wildsweetone]

'Do you suffer from "First-personism"?'

lately, only in my nightmares.

Sounds way to much like real life to me, eh?

at least the quote doesn't resort to her having 'fried-egg breasts'

 

[English Lady]

Dr well you get my point,you are more likely to build yourself up than bring yourself down so to speak!

One thing that drives me mad is theway some people include a list of attributes,I mean how can you tell a woman's bra size just by looking and do we really need her hip measurement and shoe size? Even worse is the monster dick phenomenon "It was 6 foot long and 18 inches wide" or something almost that incredible. Am I the only one who doesn't really care? A cock is a cock and thats good enough for me...



I'm rambling again....

 

[PaulX35]

Well spoken

...One thing that drives me mad is theway some people include a list of attributes,I mean how can you tell a woman's bra size just by looking and do we really need her hip measurement and shoe size? Even worse is the monster dick phenomenon "It was 6 foot long and 18 inches wide" or something almost that incredible. Am I the only one who doesn't really care? A cock is a cock and thats good enough for me...
I'm rambling again....

M'lady

I think you accurately pointed at what is so well summarized in one of dr_mabeuse's more famous lines: "tit size never saved a dull story."
Apart from theoretical limitations to actually assess the figures so often mentioned in lousy erotica there is hardly any point in mentioning them if you fail to otherwise paint a picture of how these measured attributes add to the erotic pleasures we all like to write about. And once you have succeeded in the latter, you will likely have discovered you can do without the body statistics anyway.
Just one minor point of disagreement: a cock is not a cock

Paul

 

[English Lady]

Paul x35 Exactly!


Erm if a cock is not a cock then what IS it?

 

[ronde]

DM, the sins you describe apply to third person as equally as to first. They are the trademark of stories in either POV by eager, but inexperienced, authors, or by those authors whose motivation is other than providing a pleasurable reading experience for others.

A common misconception is that the "I" in first person must be the author. Such is seldom the case in well-written, first person stories. When writing in first person, the author must select a persona for the main character and write through that filter. The power of first person is the ability to relate a tale by using the very intimate viewpoint of a character witnessing the events. It would be difficult to write so powerfully in third person. Even the most omniscient narrator can only relate the feelings of the characters. In first person, the author can allow the reader to experience those feelings through the senses of the main character.

Once the character is established, the author can then make judgements about subjective evaluations, bragging, telling instead of showing and colloquialisms by following your point number 9. If, based on the personality of the character, he/she would likely say something, I find it acceptable to write it in dialogue and thought. It is not acceptable to put words in a character's mouth the character would not normally speak. A swaggering bully would likely brag and speak in the jargon local to his location. A minister probably would not.

Subjective evaluation is one of the powers of first person because the author can describe both the scene and activity and let the reader know something about the main character at the same time.

 

[Guest]

the devil is in the details

Erm if a cock is not a cock then what IS it?

ROFL... My Lady, you have just offended all the men on the thread... either that, or really turned them on.

I agree with Ronde that whichever POV one chooses, it should be a deliberate choice that enhances the story. What is the tone of the story? Is it more clinical or intimate?

Personally, first person intimidates the socks off of me. Good first person is so much more work than third person... The author has to be so intimate with the narrating character that every image and word is true to the character and contributes to their development. Many people are "autobiographical" in their first person writing. The best, though, aren't.

dr_m... what you described above is more akin to the transcription of jerk off fantasies. And, alas, our society seems to be becoming ever more enthralled with "reality" everything... even when reality is coarse, or perhaps especially when reality is coarse.

And English Lady, a cock isn't a cock when it's a pullet.

b

 

[PaulX35]

Existentialist replies

Erm if a cock is not a cock then what IS it?

M'Lady,

The answer cannot be but existentialist. Think of the famous Matisse painting "Ce-ci n’est pas une pipe"

Paul

 

[jfinn]

A common misconception is that the "I" in first person must be the author. Such is seldom the case in well-written, first person stories. When writing in first person, the author must select a persona for the main character and write through that filter. The power of first person is the ability to relate a tale by using the very intimate viewpoint of a character witnessing the events...

...It is not acceptable to put words in a character's mouth the character would not normally speak. A swaggering bully would likely brag and speak in the jargon local to his location. A minister probably would not.

Subjective evaluation is one of the powers of first person because the author can describe both the scene and activity and let the reader know something about the main character at the same time.

I couldn't agree more Ronde and this is the main reason why I almost always choose first person as my narrative. But there are others. For one thing, I think it's a great way to get a reader to connect with your main character and it avoids so much of those awkward descriptions you can end up with in third person.

Another, and the most important for me, is that I'm really interested in exploring the concept of the unreliable narrator. People don't necessarily see the truth in a situation and if you write in first person you can explore that and experience the emotions of the narrator when he/she finally realizes that the real truth of a situation. It's a theme I go back to over and over again and in virtually all of my first person work the narrator (and consequently the reader) is basically clueless about what is really going on until close to the end.

As for autobiographical issues, well I'm a woman who writes almost exclusively from the male's pov so I don't think that is an issue. And I choose to do this because I like the challenge and find it fun to step out of myself and become someone I could never possibly be and make decision that would never come up in my own life. So for me, first person is exactly the opposite of autobiography and tends instead towards escapist fantasy.

Jayne

 

[ronde]

Jfinn, the "clueless" narrator is an aspect of first person I'd not considered, and I'm glad you mentioned it. This technique makes a really captivating read. The author can portray the main character as such while leading the reader to the truth. It's a technique used in some of the best mystery novels, and can be very effective.

 

[jshelbourne]

Most of your points are well taken.

I respectfully disagree with two of your indicators, since I consider them a strength rather than a weakness.

> (4) Using subjective value judgments. ("She was the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen!" Great. Now what did she look like?) (It was the most intense orgasm I'd ever had!" Ditto.)

And yet...I would usually rather read the response than the description.

"She was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen!"

compared to

"She had a perfectly symmetrical oval face, with a delicate nose framed by strong high cheekbones and by almond-coloured eyes; those eyes were themselves framed by long dark lashes that might have been smudges of soot held in the air. Her lips were full and sumptuous and bore the barest traces of bright lipstick, and her teeth were strong and white and even. Her midnight hair was long and glossy and smooth and hid her ears and the clean line of the hinge of her jaw. The only flaw, if flaw it was, was a fullness in the arch of her eyebrows that gave her a look like a nineteen-forties movie star, perhaps Veronica Lake in a studio shot using two banks of klieg lights bounced off reflectors and filling with a pair of juniors."

> (8) Using speech colloquialisms in writing. ("I freaked." "He got pissed.")

This depends entirely on the voice of the narrator. With the right voice, you can combine (8) and (9). If the writer has control of diction, this is a charm of first person, not a drawback. It has nothing to do with colloquialisms; it has everything to do with voice.

"This is the mature way that I reacted when I discovered my love Ruth--practically my fiancee--bent naked before and impaled upon my roommate Ken and making sounds that might have been a Maori war cry: I freaked."

J.

 

[Guest]

Philip Roth, Woody Allen (sp?) or Ferris Beuller anyone?

"This is the mature way that I reacted when I discovered my love Ruth--practically my fiancee--bent naked before and impaled upon my roommate Ken and making sounds that might have been a Maori war cry: I freaked."

J. [/B]

ROFLMAO... definitely get a sense of the narrator's self-image and academic background... Very nice!

b

 

[SlickTony]

I do try to cut out words and sayings that are so coloquial I know virtually no one will understand what I'm getting at!

I really don't have a problem with colloquialisms--if I can't figure out what they mean from their context, I will ask. I regard this as furthering my education. I think it's interesting learning slang expressions from other cultures. The mass media is homogenizing us all; it's nice learning something new and different.

JFinn, I feel awfully dense that when looking at your profile, which I must have at some point or I wouldn't have sent you feedback, I did not figure out that you're female. Damn, I thought you were good before, but after reading The Human Condition, I really am impressed as all hell.

I just finished a male-POV story which I am going to let loose here in a few days--this is the first time I've done this, and I hope it works for someone else besides me.